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My wife is a pianist and as part of her varied work she takes students in a private studio that we own. She has one who has parents that we find incredibly obnoxious and downright rude that she would rather not have a working relationship anymore. Today she was cornered by the husband because he was upset that she schedule the semi-annual recital for January 2nd because they would not be able to attend. He ended up saying things like it was stupid to have it on that date and what was she thinking picking such a date and then said something along the lines of I am sure you spoke with the students you prefer to make sure they could attend. He has had a chip on his shoulder since my wife changed his time slot after his son took the entire summer off and gave it to a student that studies with her year round. These people also quit and like a fool she took them back instead of just saying she was at capacity. They are really lovely people all around. I was thinking of us writing an email saying that we regret his view that we favor other students and explain how it isn't true (we don't choose the date based on specific family preferences but based on venue availability and try to have it near the school break period) and then let him know that we feel that working with them further would not productive and offer a list of people they could seek for services. I don't think we care if they are upset and I don't think it would damage her business beyond just calling one of the many people waiting for a slot. Is that good approach? Have you guys fired clients before? I almost went into the room and told him to get the gently caress out because he was sort of raising his voice at her but I figured that was way too "macho" and that it is better to deliberate. I just remembered a story. She has a really hard time firing people. One time a student had been stealing money from her repeatedly and I busted him by leaving some 20s that I had taken pictures of the serials and counted before his lesson and then told his father when it went missing. He asked his son to come into a private area to talk to him and came out with the money shaking etc. horrified what his son had done. My wife kept him as a student for another 2 years and he is now at conservatory studying piano performance. She is kind of too nice to tell people to gently caress off so I feel like I have to help a bit. Demonachizer fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Nov 29, 2015 |
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Nov 29, 2015 18:57
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| # ? Apr 20, 2024 06:24 |
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A similar situation happened recently where I work, except instead of a client/student it was a high-giving donor. This donor was downright terrible, didn't get along with any of the other donors at that level, constantly had issues with our staff, and viewed his charitable giving more as a business transaction instead of what it's normally treated as. He would complain about the food at literally every event, to multiple staff people, then follow up with calls and demands about special food accommodations for him for the next time etc. Then he would eat his food, and the other food he claimed not to like. Basically a huge jerk. The problem was, his wife was super well regarded, served on a committee and is a total sweetheart, and again, they've donated a fair sum to the organization (compared to our normal members, not the level that these folks give at, they basically do the bare minimum). It finally came to a head recently, and our director (organization, not even department, it got that bad) basically had to lay down the law this guy when it came to renew his membership/charitable giving. They essentially told him that it clearly wasn't working and was difficult and stressful on all parties. They let him know that while they greatly appreciated his past giving, it seemed that the relationship was no longer beneficial for each party. If he chose to stay, he would only have contact with our director, no staff, etc etc. So basically very politely telling him to gently caress off. Like you said, this guy has a chip on his shoulder, and I bet he's already looking for a reason to leave. If you politely lay out why its not working, and that you feel a different instructor may be beneficial for his kid he'll probably take the hint. If they don't, you'll need to lay out some ground rules about communication and if those rules get broken, you and your wife have the go-ahead to drop them as clients. Conversely, if you're not worried about him spreading bad word of mouth to other or future clients, skip the agreement part and politely inform them they would be better off with a different instructor, and you'll provide x amount of weeks of lessons for them to find that. It's tricky to drop a paying customer, but it can be handled tastefully if you guys are really up front about everything. Customer is not always right etc etc.
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Nov 29, 2015 21:30
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Have her smash their fingers with the lid that covers the keys, then pretend it was an accident. The parents might not buy that it was accidental, even if she sneezes right as she slams it shut, but either way the problem solves itself.
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Nov 30, 2015 02:13
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Just keep it short, sweet and to the point.quote:Mr/Mrs XX
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Nov 30, 2015 02:46
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Triple the price for the lessons
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Nov 30, 2015 03:40
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My thoughts. 1- your wife should be doing this not you. It's her job, not yours. You're doing a lot more than "help out a bit" if you're "thinking of writing a letter." 2- you have all the right ideas and I'm not sure why you're asking for input unless your wife needs corroboration 3-this is probably more E/N than BFC, if your wife needs you to do her job and/or you can't trust your wife to do her job. Whatever happens needs to come from her, nor you. Nail Rat fucked around with this message at 03:52 on Nov 30, 2015 |
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Nov 30, 2015 03:47
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Demonachizer posted:She is kind of too nice to tell people to gently caress off so I feel like I have to help a bit. Your wife should definitely let this client go. The short term stress of writing them a letter, and rejecting them when they try to pressure her to take their kid back will be much less than the long term stress of having these people in your house, treating her disrespectfully. Does your wife have issues with her self-esteem? Clearly, she's a talented and capable person, why is it that she hesitates to stand up for herself? Letting this client go will be a good move for her in more ways than one. It'll get this obnoxious guy out of her hair, and it could be a step toward becoming more assertive. Good luck to you, OP. Please keep us updated.
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Nov 30, 2015 03:51
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Every independent person who works with clients should have 3 rates. The normal rate, the rear end in a top hat rate, and the 'holy gently caress if you actually pay this much I'm going to make a ton of money' rate. If the client is an rear end in a top hat, inform them that you're raising rates to the rear end in a top hat rate. If that's not good enough, go up the third rate. If they actually pay it, make sure it's worth it.
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Nov 30, 2015 04:29
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Nail Rat posted:My thoughts. 1. I write correspondence for her it is her business/decision if she wants to continue having a working relationship with them but it is pretty clear it is toxic. 2. Just checking and was hoping that it might spur other people's stories of firing clients as it might be interesting. The stories that were shared were. 3. Pretty acrobatic leap of logic. 32-bit Siren posted:Your wife should definitely let this client go. The short term stress of writing them a letter, and rejecting them when they try to pressure her to take their kid back will be much less than the long term stress of having these people in your house, treating her disrespectfully. I spoke to her a bit more about it tonight and it looks like we will cut him loose. Not sure when as another student of hers died apparently (a much older woman) and she is crushed so this has been thrown to the back burner a bit until this gets resolved. The jerk guy doesn't show up again for a week so we have some time. I also spoke to her further than before and she was very upset by the situation and she really felt that he had crossed a line. He seemed to realize it to she mentioned as he was a bit sheepish at the end of the lesson but that doesn't truly matter. I forgot to mention before that he in all likelihood hit one of our cars and didn't own up to it last year. A neighbor asked us who the guy was that hit our car since he had been in our house then described his car to a t. When I called him about it he denied it ever happened and we just let it go because the damage was very minor and it wasn't worth doing a he said/she said about it. Dik Hz posted:Every independent person who works with clients should have 3 rates. The normal rate, the rear end in a top hat rate, and the 'holy gently caress if you actually pay this much I'm going to make a ton of money' rate. If the client is an rear end in a top hat, inform them that you're raising rates to the rear end in a top hat rate. If that's not good enough, go up the third rate. If they actually pay it, make sure it's worth it. It took me a long time to convince my wife to raise her rates. She was charging 40 per hour when I met her and had been for years. She now gets around 100 depending on the client. She could probably charge 120 and people would pay it. She HATES talking about money with clients as it feels dirty to her somehow... Demonachizer fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Nov 30, 2015 |
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Nov 30, 2015 04:42
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Rudager posted:Just keep it short, sweet and to the point. This is *exactly* what you need to do. If you come at the client with "we are terminating the relationship because [reasons]," you are asking for a fight. Any words you say to the person will be used as ammunition against you. The won't say "Oh, OK, I understand this isn't working." I can almost guarantee you will receive a point-by-point rebuttal to your letter, explaining in detail why and how you are wrong. Keep it short and sweet!
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Nov 30, 2015 17:43
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Demonachizer posted:I spoke to her a bit more about it tonight and it looks like we will cut him loose. I also spoke to her further than before and she was very upset by the situation and she really felt that he had crossed a line. He seemed to realize it to she mentioned as he was a bit sheepish at the end of the lesson but that doesn't truly matter. First of all, I'm sorry to hear that one of her students passed away. My sympathies to your wife. It's good to hear that she's with you on letting him go. Between the way he's treated her, and the fact that he hit your car and didn't own up to it, you've got plenty of reasons to ask him to take his business elsewhere. I agree firmly with the others that have been saying to keep it short and impersonal. Edit out anything personal, any explanation or apology. He'll only try to use those against you. Best to keep it brief, and to the point. What you mentioned about her hesitation to talk about rates with clients caught my eye. It's another indicator of low self-esteem. It's too bad, really. A dick will never hesitate to demand more money, because they have an inflated sense of self worth. It's what makes them a dick. Sadly, it's the modest, hard working people that do hesitate to ask for more. Even though they should be earning just as much as others in their field, they won't. Help her build up her estimation of her worth. Once she's confident in the value of her time, she'll become more comfortable asking for more.
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Nov 30, 2015 19:39
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Higher rates for a service actually increase the perceived value from the client perspective, and she may find her clients treat her better if she prices her services more like a professional than an amateur. I'm not saying gouge, but pricing can be a huge part of your image when it comes to freelancing in general; for something sort of considered a luxury, it could be even more important. I know jack about the going rate for music lessons so I have no idea how her current rates align, but when it's time she increase them, you might mention this. She may also find students are more serious about their lessons if they have to pay a little more for her instruction. If she's worried she'll price too high for people to afford it, she could donate her time in the form of a scholarship or something like that.
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Dec 1, 2015 04:18
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Rudager posted:Just keep it short, sweet and to the point. Also seconding the rate increase. Send a letter in December explaining that rates are rising in 2016. New students will be charged the new rate of X, but you will be extending their current rates until February. Then send another letter out in February as a reminder that rates will be increasing that month. It's generally better to raise rates in the middle of a semester because there's no reason to drop the activity. If you do it during midterms/finals/beginning or end of summer, there's a thousand other reasons that they'll want to quit the activity and it becomes much easier for them to think about dropping. Presenting it this way makes it less likely that they'll even consider dropping it.
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Dec 1, 2015 04:41
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$100/hr for piano lessons is p decent dough.
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Dec 1, 2015 07:08
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Lesson costs vary wildly based on location (and obviously the competency of the teacher). In the area I work in, $50/half hour would be exorbitant, but in the nearest major city, it would be downright cheap. I don't know if the internet is good for advice on rates. As far as firing the student and family, if you want to minimize drama, keep it short and to the point, and very important do not respond to any further inquiries!! As noted dad is going to be looking for a fight. He's already looking for a fight. When they ask, "Why?! Is this because you hate us? Is this because of [a bunch of bullshit lies designed to piss you off]?" either reiterate that it's just "personal reasons" or don't respond at all. Anything else is a clear invitation for more drama.
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Dec 2, 2015 06:15
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32-bit Siren posted:Low self-esteem I don't think it's necessarily a low self-esteem thing. Without getting too ancedotey, I know from personal experience that many women tend to stress and fret about doing things like this (essentially, rejection) and really weigh up the pros and cons and still move slowly for a number of reasons. I'm not saying "it's all the *~patriarchy's~* fault that she's reluctant to let this student go", but in my experience, men and women absolutely think and go about rejection differently (in a professional or personal, e.g. dating sense), and some women really struggle with rejecting people in any way, shape or form. I don't know her so don't know anything about her self-esteem one way or the other, but it's an alternate perspective that might be relevant.
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Dec 3, 2015 13:56
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In a place I once worked, management did a big audit on what clients were paying vs our costs in servicing their needs. They found that the biggest client we had was almost costing us money because they had so much volume and were so difficult to work with due to their staff / systems etc. So, as a way to get rid of them they decided to raise their prices to "just below criminal" as I heard it put. The idea was the client would fire themselves. Instead, they almost immediately agreed to the new rates. Apparently, they couldn't do this work themselves and anyone who could had already refused to take it on, so they were stuck. I guess it worked out OK because with the new price it was pretty profitable, but the stress didn't go away. So, moral of the story is fire them or be ready to accept the bullshit if they agree to some insane "go away"price.
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Dec 3, 2015 21:20
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Yeah, ideally the rear end in a top hat fee is high enough that it makes them go away, but if it isn't, you have to make sure it's high enough for you to put up with them if they agree to it.
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Dec 4, 2015 10:08
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NancyPants posted:Yeah, ideally the rear end in a top hat fee is high enough that it makes them go away, but if it isn't, you have to make sure it's high enough for you to put up with them if they agree to it. Sounds like money isn't the priority to his Wife though. I doubt getting paid more will equal more happiness out of her. Better to dump them than keep working with them for the hollow benefit of more wonga.
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Dec 30, 2015 10:49
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Dewbag posted:Sounds like money isn't the priority to his Wife though. I doubt getting paid more will equal more happiness out of her. People will put up with a lot of poo poo for money. I never had to do it myself, but my fathers inconvenience tax/rule (same thing really) when he had a trucking company was 5x if he didn't like you and 3x if he didn't know you. You'd be surprised how many people would pay up at those rates, but it was only ever a one time thing, not something like teaching where it's all about the student coming back
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Dec 30, 2015 12:42
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The tricky thing about rear end in a top hat rates is that sometimes people feel entitled to treat you like poo poo because "they're paying enough for it!" If you have a lovely client and you don't need their cash, this is the best answer: Rudager posted:Just keep it short, sweet and to the point. No explanations, no backtracking, no trying to secretly figure out how much cash is worth getting poo poo on (while factoring in the possible shittiness inflation that can go with inflated prices). Just getting rid of a stressor politely and professionally.
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Jan 10, 2016 20:43
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Rudager posted:Just keep it short, sweet and to the point. This here is the best approach. It's professional, doesn't invite any sort of argument, and limits the conversation to "facts, not feelings". Demonachizer- it sounds like your wife is treating this more like it's customer service. She sounds nice but the truth is that there's customer service, and then there's client management. If you don't manage your clients, they'll start to manage you. And it sounds like this unpleasant client has already started to do that. If they're becoming more trouble than they're worth, either terminate the relationship as suggested by Rudager, or hike their rates so their added premium reflects the added work involved with managing them. melon cat fucked around with this message at 05:57 on Jan 11, 2016 |
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Jan 11, 2016 01:42
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Dogfish posted:The tricky thing about rear end in a top hat rates is that sometimes people feel entitled to treat you like poo poo because "they're paying enough for it!" Then you continue to hike their rates until they either go away or your compensation reaches equilibrium with how terrible they are. It's a win win either way and keeps the ball in the client's court.
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Jan 11, 2016 15:56
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Yeah but then sometimes you're six months in to an escalating battle of cash and dickishness when you could have just been rid of a client you don't really need by sending a polite but firm letter. I've had way more success being polite and direct than passive-aggressive.
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Jan 11, 2016 21:01
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Increase the prices until they leave. Some common stories used to raise prices:
The solution is to be as vague as possible. Or you can tell them to just get out and not come back.
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Jan 14, 2016 16:30
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Hot drat, non-confrontational people in this thread. Do it in person because that's the right thing to do, and be super polite because you know they're going to find every way to negatively review your wife's practice online if you come across like a jerk. The script everyone is repeating sounds good- not working out for all parties, here are some recommendations for other tutors, etc. Just keep the child and his parents' best interests in mind because yeah if this kid sees his dad yelling at your wife every week then he's going to have a weird hosed up relationship with the piano.
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Nov 27, 2016 19:29
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You could always just xerox your hand flipping the bird, write "don't ever come back" on it in black sharpie, then sneak out the back door and put it under his windshield wiper when he comes to pick up his kid next time. I think this is a good passive-aggressive solution to your problem that is more effective than taking it on the chin because your wife is too passive.
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Dec 21, 2016 07:43
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Turn off all the lights and don't answer the door when they come over.
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Jan 16, 2017 23:06
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Send him three rejection letters but label them #1, #2, and #4.
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Jan 21, 2017 14:49
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Someone should page Lowtax to this thread. I'm not sure if he should give or take advice.
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Jan 23, 2017 01:19
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Firing clients is hard, but having them come to your home to work with them is worse. I would recommend short and sweet, but of course your wife might be attached to the kid so she could always decide to instate new rules where parents may only drop off or pick up students but may not stay and are only allowed to attend recitals to prevent the students from being distracted and insure parents get their money's worth. But really, she should just send the letter.
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Jan 27, 2017 19:11
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Dewbag posted:Sounds like money isn't the priority to his Wife though. I doubt getting paid more will equal more happiness out of her. She can always price gouge them and donate the profits to a charity she wants to support.
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Feb 17, 2017 18:19
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I don't know why people are still replying to this very old thread, but I want more bad client stories, dang it.
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Feb 26, 2017 03:41
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