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-Blackadder- posted:Off the top of my head "cultural appropriation" seems like the dumbest one to me. My sister is black and straightens her hair and uses a weave. I'll be sure to tell her she's appropriating white culture by straightening her hair. Neither I nor anyone I know could possibly give less of a poo poo if some white girl wants to wear dreads under a rasta hat and write lovely poetry. Black women straighten their hair en masse because mass media says that their actual hair grain looks like poo poo and the only way to be beautiful appropriates white people as much as possible. It's actually a pretty terrible thing that almost every "race" on earth goes through great pains (such as ruining their hair, the hours of preparation and maintenance) because the conglomerate of mainstream groups that became absorbed into the in power white umbrella told the rest of the world that they also happen to be the best looking. Even in daily practice, that's why things like Tinder don't really work well for (non Asian female) minorities, etc., those things are a constant reminder to them that they need to look more "white." When people that belong to that majority group can "play dress" as a minority for a minute for "fun" and still be seen as just as, or even more attractive, it's even more of a slap in the face for those that have lived their whole lives as not good enough. That's the problem with appropriation; not only are these people generally seen as better than you, but when they pretend to be you, just for fun, they're still seen as better. Darko fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Dec 2, 2015 |
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Dec 2, 2015 18:53
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Zachack posted:Being called a racist, or more specifically being accused of racism, carries potentially huge personal secondary effects well beyond any similar effects caused by being hit with a racial/gender/etc slur. Depending on the region it can carry more damage than an unprovable accusation of child molestation. I was going to rip into you or ask if you were joking, but I realized that you help illustrate something. Basically it's worth denigrating black people as a whole to protect the social standing of a white individual. Black lives don't matter. Black people don't get to be black and an individual. They can only be "one of the good ones".
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Dec 2, 2015 18:54
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There's a few times in my life where, in conversation with others, I made a slight gaffe and said something offensive unintentionally. Here's how that interaction went: "Woah, hey man that's kind of racist" "Is it? Why?" "Well <explains>" "Oh, ok - I'm sorry, I won't say it again" There we go. It was about a 15 second interaction. I learned something and we all went away having grown as human beings. What I didn't do was take it as a personal slight against myself and everything I stood for because, not actually being a racist, It doesn't really matter to me that some words are "forbidden" because I wouldn't want to intentionally say them anyway. My life, up to this point, has not been ruined. This may have to do with understanding rather than doubling down on ignorance and refusing to compromise.
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Dec 2, 2015 19:08
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foobardog posted:I was going to rip into you or ask if you were joking, but I realized that you help illustrate something. Questioning whether a word is, in fact, racist is not morally equivalent to denigrating black people as a whole, though? It's an important discussion to have. e: or maybe that's not the equivalence you're making, I may have lost track of which piece of hyperbole was responding to which other piece of hyperbole. Quorum fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Dec 2, 2015 |
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Dec 2, 2015 19:14
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Why the hell are people itt calling the French word "picnic" racist.
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Dec 2, 2015 20:04
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Quorum posted:Questioning whether a word is, in fact, racist is not morally equivalent to denigrating black people as a whole, though? It's an important discussion to have. I was more responding to the idea that slurs are not as bad as actually being called a racist. Questioning is not necessarily an issue, but acting as if minorities should have to endure slurs in order for a white person to avoid being called racist is.
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Dec 2, 2015 20:13
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steinrokkan posted:Why the hell are people itt calling the French word "picnic" racist. I'm not. It isn't. Some people thought its etymology was from "pick-a-friend of the family". They're wrong, it was stupid, but now it's used to dismiss valid complaints.
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Dec 2, 2015 20:15
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Darko posted:Black women straighten their hair en masse because mass media says that their actual hair grain looks like poo poo and the only way to be beautiful appropriates white people as much as possible. It's actually a pretty terrible thing that almost every "race" on earth goes through great pains (such as ruining their hair, the hours of preparation and maintenance) because the conglomerate of mainstream groups that became absorbed into the in power white umbrella told the rest of the world that they also happen to be the best looking. Even in daily practice, that's why things like Tinder don't really work well for (non Asian female) minorities, etc., those things are a constant reminder to them that they need to look more "white." I don't necessarily disagree with any of that. Good Hair is a good documentary for people who don't understand why black women do what they do to their hair. But ultimately if my sister wants to straighten her hair she should be able to do that without having to worry about it offending someone else. Darko posted:When people that belong to that majority group can "play dress" as a minority for a minute for "fun" and still be seen as just as, or even more attractive, it's even more of a slap in the face for those that have lived their whole lives as not good enough. That's the problem with appropriation; not only are these people generally seen as better than you, but when they pretend to be you, just for fun, they're still seen as better. I don't know, I ask myself if it's a slap in my face if a white guy, who's practiced for years, to be a better break dancer than I am, who's never practiced at all, and I don't see how I can reasonably make that claim. And if a white guy wants to play jazz or dress up as a Zulu warrior for Halloween I can't seem to muster up any righteous indignation for that either. I dressed up for Halloween as white comic book characters and historical figures all the time as a kid. It doesn't really seem all that strange to see a black kid going as Abraham Lincoln but a white kid going as MLK raises a few more eyebrows even though it really shouldn't. I've always taken it as a compliment that white people are actually interested enough in black culture to get into those things. And it's nice to see other-than-white culture get some exposure, I think that helps young minorities to feel positive about their ethnic identity. Now things like the picture of the two white people who dressed up as Trayvon and Zimmerman were offensive for what I think would be obvious reasons. But again, this stuff so far beyond unimportant next other race issues. Every second of news coverage, college protest, and debate that goes to this kind of nonsense is another second that could be going toward covering the racist monstrosity that is the American Justice System or racial inconsistencies in hiring practices, or race related problems in K-12 education. And that's just in the US alone. Given how much they profited (and are still profiting) from it would be nice if the west and Europe put in the work necessary toward truly addressing problems in places like Congo, Somalia, Sudan, and other fragile states. -Blackadder- fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Dec 2, 2015 |
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Dec 2, 2015 20:20
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Hottake: White people are bad and are the cause of most modern western racism and are just too chickenshit to realize this due to how utterly fragile white identity is.
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Dec 2, 2015 20:21
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Goon project: dedicate centuries of scholarship and debate to the project of accurately and completely defining every specific contour of According-to-Hoyle racism so we'll never, ever have to practice the kind of empathy for which we are uniquely ill-equipped.
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Dec 2, 2015 20:26
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Woozy posted:Goon project: dedicate centuries of scholarship and debate to the project of accurately and completely defining every specific contour of According-to-Hoyle racism so we'll never, ever have to practice the kind of empathy for which we are uniquely ill-equipped. You're basically asking for a cure for autism.
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Dec 2, 2015 20:29
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nutranurse posted:You're basically asking for a cure for autism. Well that's the joke but come on dude you're supposed to just imply it.
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Dec 2, 2015 20:39
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-Blackadder- posted:I don't know, I ask myself if it's a slap in my face if a white guy, who's practiced for years, to be a better break dancer than I am, who's never practiced at all, and I don't see how I can reasonably make that claim. And if a white guy wants to play jazz or dress up as a Zulu warrior for Halloween I can't seem to muster up any righteous indignation for that either. I dressed up for Halloween as white comic book characters and historical figures all the time as a kid. It doesn't really seem all that strange to see a black kid going as Abraham Lincoln but a white kid going as MLK raises a few more eyebrows even though it really shouldn't. I've always taken it as a compliment that white people are actually interested enough in black culture to get into those things. And it's nice to see other-than-white culture get some exposure, I think that helps young minorities to feel positive about their ethnic identity. Now things like the picture of the two white people who dressed up as Trayvon and Zimmerman were offensive for what I think would be obvious reasons. The issue is deeper than that. It's not that a white guy became a better breakdancer (which is a skill, and not an image, btw) than you, and gets praised for it. The issue is that white people can be praised for just being white and doing what they do, and then get praised for doing other cultural stuff more than the people that invented it, while the culture that does it is simultaneously degraded for it. There's a big difference between Eminem (who writes his own stuff and is a reflection of where he, in particular grew up, while being praised for extraordinary talent) and Iggy Azalea. And it is a hosed-up thing that needs to be addressed. To use your Spider-man example; black people are constantly BASHED for cosplaying anime characters while white people are constantly praised in the exact same places (playing Japanese characters). It's not mutually exclusive; you can complain and protest that while protesting something else the next day. And it does matter because these types of things do have domino effects on people's emotional well being.
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Dec 2, 2015 20:42
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steinrokkan posted:Why the hell are people itt calling the French word "picnic" racist. http://www.snopes.com/language/offense/picnic.asp And it's being propagated even by articles who point out it's not true: http://www.cracked.com/article_16967_8-racist-words-you-use-every-day.html I await with bated breath for the day where people are shamed for using the word "Canadian" even when they actually mean a person originating from Canada.
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Dec 2, 2015 20:48
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Darko posted:There's a big difference between Eminem (who writes his own stuff and is a reflection of where he, in particular grew up, while being praised for extraordinary talent) and Iggy Azalea. And it is a hosed-up thing that needs to be addressed. "Marketing is only good when I believe it's authentic and the narrative fits my personal worldviews."
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Dec 2, 2015 20:53
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lite frisk posted:"Marketing is only good when I believe it's authentic and the narrative fits my personal worldviews." Eminem is authentically a huge catty crybaby like every other rapper.
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Dec 2, 2015 21:08
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foobardog posted:I was more responding to the idea that slurs are not as bad as actually being called a racist. Do you think that the severe economic and social impact of being called a racist, justified or not, doesn't apply to minority individuals? Further, someone being a racist does not mean that minorities should endure slurs to protect the racist, nor was that the point. But if my Korean wife perceives racism or misogyny from, say, a black man, an accusation of racism or misogyny will far more likely obliterate that individual's life than her calling him a picnic-loving Canadian.
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Dec 2, 2015 21:13
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Darko posted:The issue is deeper than that. It's not that a white guy became a better breakdancer (which is a skill, and not an image, btw) than you, and gets praised for it. The issue is that white people can be praised for just being white and doing what they do, and then get praised for doing other cultural stuff more than the people that invented it, while the culture that does it is simultaneously degraded for it. Yeah I remember shaking my head at the first Academy Awarded rap song going to a white rapper, it may have been legit given his background but I couldn't help but chuckle at it's convenience. Elvis is another example off the top of my head, that I think is pretty famous for bringing something from black culture into the mainstream. Of course I'm irked by that kind of thing. The thought of "we invented that and now this white guy is getting famous off of it" comes to mind pretty quickly. But if I'm being honest with myself it's a pretty minor annoyance in the scheme of things. I never got any direct criticism that I was aware for dressing up as Batman (was never into Marvel). I'm sure there are people out there who do that, though. And it's easy to see young kids who don't know any better saying to each other "Hey, you can't dress up as X character he's white and/or a man". But I think that highlights my point, that we shouldn't be promoting this idea where you have to be a certain color or gender to dress up as a certain character or wear certain clothes or have certain hobbies. And I really do think this takes away from more important issues. "We can multi-task" is a very common response to this argument but the problem is that beyond a certain point it isn't actually true. There's only 24 hours in a day and resources are limited, that puts a hard cap on our realistic ability to address these issues. Even here and now, we're in a thread talking about Halloween costumes when we could be talking about Congo. And that is a domino effect, because it's practically a national discussion, when the national discussion should be about issues that are far more impactful. And again, yes, we can have more than one national discussion, but that doesn't mean we can have infinite national discussions. It's not like we're running at anywhere near maximum efficiency when it comes to addressing the important problems as it is. It's not even just that key race issues aren't being discussed, it's that other key issues aren't being discussed either, like the environment, for example. It'll be amazing how little I care about white people stealing black culture when I'm on fire or living under water. -Blackadder- fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Dec 2, 2015 |
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Dec 2, 2015 21:17
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lite frisk posted:"Marketing is only good when I believe it's authentic and the narrative fits my personal worldviews." I'm not sure I'm understanding what you're getting at here. Eminem is a ridiculously talented rapper (as acknowledged by all of his peers) who took a similar path as the black rappers who he worked and came up along with, in fact a harder path, because at the start, his race worked against him. After getting signed and produced (by Dre), he rocketed up quickly, which could have some correlation to his race, but is a separate issue. That's being compared to dressing someone up and writing for them while telling them to affect an accent they don't have, and them rocketing up just based -solely- on the marketing based appropriation. It's two distinctly different things there. There is a distinct contrast and difference, which was the point. -Blackadder- posted:Yeah I remember shaking my head at the first Academy Awarded rap song going to a white rapper, it may have been legit given his background but I couldn't help but chuckle at it's convenience. Elvis is another example off the top of my head, that I think is pretty famous for bringing something from black culture into the mainstream. Of course I'm irked by that kind of thing. The thought of "we invented that and now this white guy is getting famous off of it" comes to mind pretty quickly. But if I'm being honest with myself it's a pretty minor annoyance in the scheme of things. The Best Song Academy Award goes to the most popular of that year. 8-Mile is essentially a remake of Purple Rain, and just as Prince by default got the award for having the most ridiculously popular song that year, Eminem did for his. It's ironic that the first rap song went to a white guy, yes, but as "deserved" as anything else when it comes to those. You're shifting the argument over. I gave you direct examples of the social privilege inherent in "dressing up as" with the cosplay example (where white people can have fun dressing as whoever they please, and black people are laughed at for doing the same). That's purely social stigma - white people -can- generally dress up as any racial character and get praised for it; minorities cannot. What we're getting now is people finally pointing out a level of awareness associated with that. You're arguing media coverage and not people actually arguing or protesting things. The media controls the national discussion, and current media promotes controversy over everything, as it benefits the 24-hour news cycle and talk shows going back and forth over it. There's no controversy about "all of these people dying over here" that will get people to tune in as much as stuff like "the war on Christmas" or "white people can't do this thing any more." You're basically saying people should shut up about this stuff and only talk about the other stuff because of the media, as opposed to taking the media to task for what it chooses to present. Darko fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Dec 2, 2015 |
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Dec 2, 2015 21:34
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Zachack posted:Do you think that the severe economic and social impact of being called a racist, justified or not, doesn't apply to minority individuals? Do you think there is a racism police that hound you across society and will block you from all jobs like a felony? Yes, your wife can use her and your social circles to impact this guy for his shittiness. He gets fired. He goes across town and finds another job, or gets an offer from his friend and whatever, because he has a set of social circles that is only marginally connected to yours. Yes, I know of twitter hit mobs and things like that, but that's a relatively new occurrence. However, your wife calling him a worthless picnic-loving Canadian might even roll off him like water off a duck's back. However, what it has in it is a statement his race is worthless, and that it's justified treating other black people, or even just black people that fail to act to your standards like poo poo. It's a message that pervades our culture, and may not affect him, but will affect some other black guy whose resume gets tossed out by one of your friends. It's also pretty telling that you use your wife as a cudgel here. Asian-Americans have been used as a "model minority" for a long time to bash the "unmodel minority", black people. It helps neither group of people. Yes, you're not the racist cop planting drugs after he shot an innocent black man. You're not the hiring manager declining your wife because she doesn't have "leadership" skills, or is "bitchy". But you are suggesting that slurs are not a big deal, but being called a racist is. Where do you think that idea leads to? What do you think it means? Because it's exactly as I have said, despite you asserting otherwise. Being called a racist is the fake rape accusation of race relations. It's a problem and it exists, but it is so much a tinier problem than the larger problem it serves as a smokescreen for that it's ridiculous to bring it up.
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Dec 2, 2015 21:40
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foobardog posted:Do you think there is a racism police that hound you across society and will block you from all jobs like a felony? Yes, your wife can use her and your social circles to impact this guy for his shittiness. He gets fired. He goes across town and finds another job, or gets an offer from his friend and whatever, because he has a set of social circles that is only marginally connected to yours. Yes, I know of twitter hit mobs and things like that, but that's a relatively new occurrence. Even if he isn't fired the damage from the accusation will likely impact future economic success like promotions or increased mobility. quote:However, your wife calling him a worthless picnic-loving Canadian might even roll off him like water off a duck's back. However, what it has in it is a statement his race is worthless, and that it's justified treating other black people, or even just black people that fail to act to your standards like poo poo. It's a message that pervades our culture, and may not affect him, but will affect some other black guy whose resume gets tossed out by one of your friends. It's also pretty telling that you use your wife as a cudgel here. Asian-Americans have been used as a "model minority" for a long time to bash the "unmodel minority", black people. It helps neither group of people. quote:Yes, you're not the racist cop planting drugs after he shot an innocent black man. You're not the hiring manager declining your wife because she doesn't have "leadership" skills, or is "bitchy". But you are suggesting that slurs are not a big deal, but being called a racist is. Where do you think that idea leads to? What do you think it means? Because it's exactly as I have said, despite you asserting otherwise. quote:Being called a racist is the fake rape accusation of race relations. It's a problem and it exists, but it is so much a tinier problem than the larger problem it serves as a smokescreen for that it's ridiculous to bring it up.
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Dec 2, 2015 22:00
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Zachack posted:I agree. We're yelling past each other then. And I apologize. I know getting a new job is not easy. I know being called a racist can affect minorities. But if you know that who is called a racist is a smoke screen, why bring it up? Listen, it's not you. It's the ideas involved. Most of the way we are currently keeping racism alive is through making a lot of it not racially based on its face. Did I get fired from my job for being black or for playing my music too loudly? Do we not hire felons because they are felons, or because they're Hispanic? Did I swipe right because I wasn't attracted to her or because her skin is too dark? All of this is tied to a higher bar for claims of racism even given a possibly high punishment. And that's a huge problem because there's still a lot out there, and there's still the general perspective of accusing the accuser over the accused. That may make sense in a court room, but it's never been a good thing within more intimate social circles. And while racism doesn't always directly manifest there, actions there support the places where it does manifest. Both lovely laws and the lovely culture needs to be attacked.
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Dec 2, 2015 22:19
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Zachack posted:Again, I am not saying that slurs are not a big deal, but only that on an individual level being called a racist or mysogynist carries more harm than being called a slur. That harm may be justified and it may not be. lol honestly the whitest thing ive read all day
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Dec 2, 2015 22:25
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A formal claim of racism sent to HR causes more harm than someone calling a black person a friend of the family on the street, probably. But, no, people calling you something that you can possibly change does not have as much effect as the paranoia and other issues that comes with people calling you "beneath them" about things you can't change does (ie. you don't have to wonder if someone thinks you're racist until you open your mouth, while a black person has to wonder who doesn't like him just because of the color of his skin when walking in to a room).
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Dec 2, 2015 22:35
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Constant Hamprince posted:Namaste. Normally I get annoyed by this, but in this thread I just have to say well played.
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Dec 2, 2015 22:48
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Darko posted:I'm not sure I'm understanding what you're getting at here. Eminem is a ridiculously talented rapper (as acknowledged by all of his peers) who took a similar path as the black rappers who he worked and came up along with, in fact a harder path, because at the start, his race worked against him. After getting signed and produced (by Dre), he rocketed up quickly, which could have some correlation to his race, but is a separate issue. I'm not shifting anything, I was talking about people being able to wear what they want regardless of it's cultural connections and their own ethnicity, like comic character costumes, jamacian hats, dreads, weaves or whatever else. Actually id love it if people took the media to task over these dumb issues and told them to focus on important things instead of reinforcing the media's choices by endlessly debating the minutiae of whether or not it's OK for white people to have dreads. The media responds to the public, maybe if key issues were all we talked about the media would change its programming. These issues are basically clickbait and by engaging in them we're rubber necking and reinforcing their continued focus. And I'm not just arguing media content, I also mentioned this very discussion as being time we could be spending discussing the American prison system or something that has a much higher negative impact on minorities than internet nerds tweeting snarky comments about a black kid dressing up as Naruto. -Blackadder- fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Dec 2, 2015 |
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Dec 2, 2015 22:55
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We can personally do something about "how we choose to appropriate other culture" on an individual level, making it good to get out there and discuss, because the more that hear it, the more can choose to change their own actions. I can't personally reform the prison system with my actions, but can also simultaneously talk about ways to affect that in another thread elsewhere. Both are valid things to do and neither takes away from the other on its own. It's like being able to talk about mental health issues and gun control at the same time. Or talk about animals being killed by hunters and people being slaughtered in Africa simultaneously. Either/or dichotomies like that are usually just created by people who can only think about one thing at once, or those that just don't want to talk about the other thing, whatever that may be. Darko fucked around with this message at 23:01 on Dec 2, 2015 |
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Dec 2, 2015 22:58
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-Blackadder- posted:I'm not shifting anything, I was talking about people being able to wear what they want regardless of it's cultural connections and their own ethnicity, like comic character costumes, jamacian hats, dreads, weaves or whatever else. Much like your reddit friends who screech about free speech, you're conflating criticism for censorship. White people do have the right to wear dreds, hats, costumes, anything they want. And all people have the right to criticize them for it. Pouting and stamping your feet about the people who choose to criticize that behavior just confirms that you're in sore need of more criticism in your life. A historically antagonistic group rooting through your cultural trappings - the same cultural trappings they've mocked, banned, and used as justification for their abuses of your people - for dress-up puts salt in deep wounds. But if you're as pig-ignorant of history and blind to the basic humanity of other people as you seem to be, it makes sense that minority criticism would seem like it's coming out of nowhere. It is, after all, coming out of the massive black void in your knowledge called "everything that isn't about white people."
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Dec 2, 2015 23:10
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Darko posted:I'm not sure I'm understanding what you're getting at here. Eminem is a ridiculously talented rapper (as acknowledged by all of his peers) who took a similar path as the black rappers who he worked and came up along with, in fact a harder path, because at the start, his race worked against him. After getting signed and produced (by Dre), he rocketed up quickly, which could have some correlation to his race, but is a separate issue. Wait, are you saying Eminem is "one of the good ones"? What I'm getting at is that you buy Eminem's story because it implicitly addresses your nagging anxieties about cultural appropriation. The whole premise of Eminem's image is like a page from 19th-century-style romantic "authenticity" and the "hard path" he had to take. Whether this narrative is deliberately constructed or accidental makes no effective difference. In fact all narrative is by definition always deliberately constructed, simply because all narrative is 99% omission. What matters at the end of the day is that it works, because it captures the imagination of a particular audience who then pay for his products. He's doing marketing just as much as Azalea is. He's trying to sell something - albums and tickets. That means he has to make a lot of marketing decisions, whether he's aware of it and has a strategy behind it or not. Touting Eminem's "raw talent" is just a distraction from the fact that he's doing business. He's incredibly talented, yes! But are you seriously going to tell me his claim to fame is a result of mostly raw talent? Do you really believe his label doesn't have a PR team advising on good and bad image strategy and messaging? Why do you think he performed Stan with Elton John? Just 'cause they're good pals and wanted to do a show together, eh? Before you accuse me of cynicism - I don't think any of this invalidates him as an artist or his art (in fact I think it's pretty badass). I'm just pointing out that every single successful artist today is also either a good salesman or is really good at doing promotions, and if not then they have someone on their team who is. The real reason you have a problem with Iggy Azalea is because she's too "fake," her narrative doesn't convince you that her performance persona is close enough to her real-life self. Fine. But please explain to me how this is a criteria that should even matter or anyone should care about? Show me any human on this planet and I will show you a well of contradictions. I get that a lot of Americans have this obsession with being "real" and "authentic," but you're aware that this is just another one of a myriad of possible values and narratives, right? Azalea is "appropriating" another culture and this particular culture in this particular context has been ad-hoc deemed taboo to appropriate. You don't like her, you don't like her narrative, and so her main claim to fame is "based -solely- on the marketing based appropriation." If there's one thing you should remember about marketing is that it never ever occurs in a vacuum. That means someone is listening Azalea's poo poo, enjoying it, spending money, and they're probably doing it in large part because of the marketing. If anything, Azalea's existence should not make you upset at her, but instead question the authenticity of Eminem's narrative, because the fact that Azalea can don a fake accent, affect a fake hardness and be successful in America as a white "rapper" not totally unlike Eminem... actually demonstrates that there is perhaps a somewhat formulaic pattern here that Eminem lucked out on by falling into first, and not merely a question of ~~~raw talent~~~. Being upset by cultural appropriation is one of the best illustrations of how daft, narcissistic and insecure people today are. The 21st century's version of declaring purple to be a royal color and forbidding peasants from wearing it. Who/what is being harmed by Azalea? I thought imitation was the sincerest form of flattery. lite frisk fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Dec 2, 2015 |
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Dec 2, 2015 23:14
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Much like your reddit friends who screech about free speech, you're conflating criticism for censorship. White people do have the right to wear dreds, hats, costumes, anything they want. And all people have the right to criticize them for it. Pouting and stamping your feet about the people who choose to criticize that behavior just confirms that you're in sore need of more criticism in your life. My reddit friends? I never said anything about censoring anyone i said complaining about anyone wearing the clothes, hairstyles, and hobbies of other cultures is silly and distracts from far more impactful issues. Honestly this is just ad hominem gibberish or a troll. If you can't post like an adult, I won't bother replying.
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Dec 2, 2015 23:25
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-Blackadder- posted:My reddit friends? I never said anything about censoring anyone i said complaining about anyone wearing the clothes, hairstyles, and hobbies of other cultures is silly and distracts from far more impactful issues. Hahaha "impactful." Great debate strategery there. Your whining is exactly like redditor whining. It proceeds from the same fundamental misunderstanding of how freedom of expression works. That was the point. Maybe if white culture valued education more reading wouldn't be so difficult for you.
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Dec 2, 2015 23:32
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Hahaha "impactful." Great debate strategery there. Your whining is exactly like redditor whining. It proceeds from the same fundamental misunderstanding of how freedom of expression works. That was the point. Maybe if white culture valued education more reading wouldn't be so difficult for you. mind if i appropriate your posting for a case study in a class on irony?
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Dec 2, 2015 23:37
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When the white people started wearing dreadlocks, I didn't complain because, it's just a hair style, you know? When the white people started disguising themselves as Martin Luther King or Rosa Parks, I didn't complain because it's cool that these figure get more visibility When the white people started wearing blackface again, it was too late to complain lite frisk posted:Who/what is being harmed by Azalea? I thought imitation was the sincerest form of flattery. Black rappers that nobody has heard about and who could have known fame and fortune if the spot hadn't been picked by a white girl.
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Dec 2, 2015 23:38
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lite frisk posted:mind if i appropriate your posting for a case study in a class on irony? 
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Dec 2, 2015 23:44
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Cat Mattress posted:Black rappers that nobody has heard about and who could have known fame and fortune if the spot hadn't been picked by a white girl. Ignoring the huge can of worms titled "what is a market niche?" and the fact that off the top of my head I can't think of more than like 3 white rappers compared to black artists in the same genre - are you going to suggest Azalea's label should be forced to drop her, stop selling her music and pick up a black artist instead?
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Dec 2, 2015 23:44
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lite frisk posted:Ignoring the huge can of worms titled "what is a market niche?" and the fact that off the top of my head I can't think of more than like 3 white rappers compared to black artists in the same genre - are you going to suggest Azalea's label should be forced to drop her, stop selling her music and pick up a black artist instead? Oh hey look, criticism = censorship again. It is possible to think someone sucks, even tell them they suck, without wanting to or attempting to ban them. Even saying "Igloo Australia shouldn't be a rapper" or "her label should drop her" is not "force" in any sense of the word.
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Dec 2, 2015 23:56
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Oh hey look, criticism = censorship again. Make up your mind, people, do words and speech acts matter in shaping reality, or do they not? Seems like there's a conveniently huge amount of wiggle room for people to maintain both positions depending on what suits them.
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Dec 3, 2015 00:00
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lite frisk posted:Ignoring the huge can of worms titled "what is a market niche?" and the fact that off the top of my head I can't think of more than like 3 white rappers compared to black artists in the same genre - are you going to suggest Azalea's label should be forced to drop her, stop selling her music and pick up a black artist instead? Hey, if you want to be serious about appropriation, you gotta be serious about appropriation! Likewise, Henry Lewis was culturally appropriating white music by being a symphonic orchestra conductor. Shameful.
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Dec 3, 2015 00:00
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steinrokkan posted:Make up your mind, people, do words and speech acts matter in shaping reality, or do they not? "Shaping reality" is censorship, you heard it here first.
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Dec 3, 2015 00:04
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I don't really have any particularly strong opinions on Eminem but he's actually an incredibly talented dude, and has earned his success. He was known as an insane battle rapper long before he ever got signed. I'm not entirely sure that his image is any different from the usual stuff that rap does. I may be talking out of line, but I don't think the Wu-Tang clan are actually Shaolin Masters from the old school.
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Dec 3, 2015 00:06
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