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The Kingfish posted:Shut up effectronica you stupid nerd thats only what you wish the article was about. Please don't quote Effectronica, it increases his power level 
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Dec 26, 2015 21:43
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A Buttery Pastry posted:When you say westerners, who do you mean? Because pancakes aren't just American-style fluffy pancakes. American, English, Polish, Portuguese. If they were following some weird specific recipe all the better reason for the customers to speak up, they could have done everything right and it still would have tasted wrong!
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Dec 26, 2015 21:46
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Jarmak posted:What is this strawman crap? Hey dude you're welcome to explain how writing a letter to company management and having a cordial meeting to resolve the complaints about food quality is inherently ridiculous, but so far you've been unable to do that without wholesale making things up and putting words in these kids' mouths. White people complain about food all the time, suddenly Asian exchange students do it and it's a campaign of intimidation against colleges or something.
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Dec 26, 2015 21:47
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VitalSigns posted:Hey dude you're welcome to explain how writing a letter to company management and having a cordial meeting to resolve the complaints about food quality is inherently ridiculous, but so far you've been unable to do that without wholesale making things up and putting words in these kids' mouths. It's ridiculous on its face to complain about the quality of banh mi in small-town Ohio. Would you bitch and mewl like a scalded kitten about not being able to find Chicago-style pizza in Madrid?
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Dec 26, 2015 21:49
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TheImmigrant posted:Keep fighting the good fight, Tiger! Racism can only be defeated by Posting furiously on the Internet according to incoherent social theory. Thank you, I do my best.
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Dec 26, 2015 21:51
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VitalSigns posted:White people complain about food all the time, suddenly Asian exchange students do it and it's a campaign of intimidation against colleges or something. White people generally don't complain that their bad cafeteria food is appropriating their culture, and if they did it would seem ridiculous. The article, "CDS Appropriates Asian Dishes, Students Say", isn't about bad food and is actually about cultural appropriation. Which is why it is ridiculous. The Kingfish fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Dec 26, 2015 |
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Dec 26, 2015 21:52
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TheImmigrant posted:It's ridiculous on its face to complain about the quality of banh mi in small-town Ohio. I dunno, if a place in Madrid claimed to make Chicago-style pizza, but then the dish was nothing like a Chicago-style pizza, I'd probably complain.
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Dec 26, 2015 21:53
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Zanzibar Ham posted:I dunno, if a place in Madrid claimed to make Chicago-style pizza, but then the dish was nothing like a Chicago-style pizza, I'd probably complain. Racism, right?
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Dec 26, 2015 21:54
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Oops
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Dec 26, 2015 21:55
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TheImmigrant posted:Racism, right? Maybe if a local newspaper reported on it they'd claim I called it racism, or a bunch of people on the internet would put words in my mouth.
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Dec 26, 2015 21:56
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TheImmigrant posted:It's ridiculous on its face to complain about the quality of banh mi in small-town Ohio. No it's not, which is why the company was appreciative of the feedback and made changes to its business to improve customer satisfaction. Which is exactly how capitalism is supposed to work, but because it's foreigners bringing the demand and getting catered to by the market, suddenly it's a sinister attack on our institutions.
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Dec 26, 2015 21:56
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VitalSigns posted:No it's not, which is why the company was appreciative of the feedback and made changes to its business to improve customer satisfaction. Wow capitalism is so great.
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Dec 26, 2015 21:58
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Squalid posted:American, English, Polish, Portuguese. If they were following some weird specific recipe all the better reason for the customers to speak up, they could have done everything right and it still would have tasted wrong!
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Dec 26, 2015 21:59
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Tbf, considering they're being gypped of paying Oberlin fees, I'd be bitching about everything about the school if I was a foreign kid.
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Dec 26, 2015 22:00
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Zanzibar Ham posted:I dunno, if a place in Madrid claimed to make Chicago-style pizza, but then the dish was nothing like a Chicago-style pizza, I'd probably complain. And you'd be an rear end too, people like this are flatly embarrassing to be around when living abroad.
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Dec 26, 2015 22:00
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Jarmak posted:And you'd be an rear end too, people like this are flatly embarrassing to be around when living abroad. So you buy something and it turns out to not be what you'd expect it would be, but you don't complain? You just accept it silently? Do you just never complain about anything?
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Dec 26, 2015 22:06
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At the dorm cafeteria??
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Dec 26, 2015 22:07
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Maybe I'll ask the cafeteria not to call it Chicago-style pizza when it's obviously not that I dunno. I guess I shouldn't complain I mean complaining makes trouble I don't wanna make trouble. Better learn to be obedient and always do what I'm told and always accept the status quo.
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Dec 26, 2015 22:12
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Jarmak posted:And you'd be an rear end too, people like this are flatly embarrassing to be around when living abroad. In the real world, businesses want feedback so much that some offer sweepstakes for people who fill out online reviews, and plenty of restaurants abroad ask you to review them on TripAdvisor or Lonely Planet because turns out getting honest feedback is better than quietly losing business and not knowing why.
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Dec 26, 2015 22:12
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Zanzibar Ham posted:So you buy something and it turns out to not be what you'd expect it would be, but you don't complain? You just accept it silently? People that complain about authenticity of cuisine are pretty much always idiots who don't know what they're talking about. People who complain about authenticity of cuisine based on expectations derived from a completely foreign culture are both ignorant and ethnocentric assholes. Jarmak fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Dec 26, 2015 |
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Dec 26, 2015 22:15
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Jarmak posted:People that complain about authenticity of cuisine are pretty much always idiots who don't know what they're talking about. What do you mean when you say they don't know what they're talking about? That they don't know what the authentic food is actually like, or...? As to the second point it sounds to me like you're projecting pretty hard.
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Dec 26, 2015 22:19
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Zanzibar Ham posted:What do you mean when you say they don't know what they're talking about? That they don't know what the authentic food is actually like, or...? There is no such thing as "authentic" cuisine, the entire concept is farcical. This is not to be confused with saying something is "authentic" in reference to things like ingredients being sourced as indicated (ie authentic Asiago actually being from the alto piano). Edit: has it occurred to you "Chicago style" might mean something different in Spain?
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Dec 26, 2015 22:27
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Jarmak posted:Edit: has it occurred to you "Chicago style" might mean something different in Spain? This.
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Dec 26, 2015 22:31
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A Buttery Pastry posted:The way you describe those pancakes makes them sound pretty similar to a wide range of non-American pancakes, both European and not. That doesn't make them weird or wrong, just different. I'd like to note that I was not attempting to slander the glorious Nordic pancake tradition, but rather to say that it is easier to meet everyone's expectations when you communicate. Merely stating your expectations is not "elitist" especially when someone is trying to please you anyway, and accommodations are easy.
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Dec 26, 2015 22:42
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Jarmak posted:There is no such thing as "authentic" cuisine, the entire concept is farcical. This is true, but if you use the name of a dish, people are going to expect it to bear a passing familiarity with that dish or they are going to feel misled. If I advertise authentic Italian cuisine, and my tomato sauce is just ketchup poured over noodles, it's not unreasonable to complain. The articles didn't go into the details of exactly what changes the management agreed to make, but the fact that everyone cordially agreed to the improvements is a good indicator that the requests were likely not as impossible and outlandish as you claim. Unless you've got a source to the contrary, which would be a nice change from the fantasies you've been inventing this entire thread.
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Dec 26, 2015 22:52
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In Eastern Europe they have a dish called French meat. It's basically any slice of meat with mayonnaise, cheese, and onion or tomato, or other optional ingredients baked in the oven. It's called French because it's a simplified version of Veal Orloff, a recipe created by a French chef for Prince Orloff. Obviously, its current version, especially the one you can find in any cheap restaurant, French meat has nothing to do with France. Sorry, French people, but there's no way anyone's going to change the name. Now your cuisine is forever associated with copious amounts of mayonnaise and Russian cheese. Mm... France in every bite.  E: wait, it's not the anti-food porn thread? Paladinus fucked around with this message at 23:01 on Dec 26, 2015 |
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Dec 26, 2015 22:58
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How about some lovely Japanese shrimp pizza?
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Dec 26, 2015 23:07
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Hexmage-SA posted:I just started reading a book about cultural appropriation titled "Who Owns Culture?" by Susan Scafidi. I'm not that far in, but I've gotten to an illustrative example I find interesting. Enjoying and participating in art, as art, is not appropriative because you're using it the same way the other culture is. If a white guy from Detroit guy wears a sombrero because he's a fan of mariachi music and decided to play it for a living, that's not bad, but if a frat bro wears a sombrero because he's acting as if Mexican culture is centered around drinking on Cinco de Mayo it's bad. I hope we're all in agreement about this and just arguing about cases in the middle. I assume that Cinco de Mayo as an excuse to get drunk in America itself is just seen as the goofy neighbors joining a celebration that most of them seriously think is Mexican Independence Day. I'd be interested to hear the opinion of someone from Mexico though. With all the border wall talk lately I'm going to use next year's to remind people that we like Mexico and that there's no reason to be suspicious of people from there.
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Dec 26, 2015 23:12
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Jarmak posted:"This American dish that I didn't even taste because it looked nothing like the version they make in China is an affront to my culture" is in fact a ridiculous complaint. I thought the article said they were passing it off as "authentic"
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Dec 26, 2015 23:14
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Stinky_Pete posted:Enjoying and participating in art, as art, is not appropriative because you're using it the same way the other culture is. If a white guy from Detroit guy wears a sombrero because he's a fan of mariachi music and decided to play it for a living, that's not bad, but if a frat bro wears a sombrero because he's acting as if Mexican culture is centered around drinking on Cinco de Mayo it's bad. I hope we're all in agreement about this and just arguing about cases in the middle. Why would an American wearing a sombrero while getting tanked suggest that Mexican culture is centered around drinking on Cinco de Mayo? I don't see the connection.
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Dec 26, 2015 23:34
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The Kingfish posted:Why would an American wearing a sombrero while getting tanked suggest that Mexican culture is centered around drinking on Cinco de Mayo? I don't see the connection. It's a caricature of what people believe Mexicans to be.
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Dec 26, 2015 23:39
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People who wear sombreros?
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Dec 26, 2015 23:44
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The Kingfish posted:Why would an American wearing a sombrero while getting tanked suggest that Mexican culture is centered around drinking on Cinco de Mayo? I don't see the connection. Maybe I'm jumping the gun a little, but I believe it's a Mexican stereotype much like for Irish people, both because of Catholicism. The prohibition movement was largely aimed against Catholic immigrants by Protestants who viewed alcohol as the emblematic vice of the riff-raff. Its role was filled by weed after prohibition ended. But it depends on a lot of factors, and just wearing a sombrero and drinking are probably not enough to send the wrong message. Stinky_Pete fucked around with this message at 23:55 on Dec 26, 2015 |
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Dec 26, 2015 23:51
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Stinky_Pete posted:Enjoying and participating in art, as art, is not appropriative because you're using it the same way the other culture is. If a white guy from Detroit guy wears a sombrero because he's a fan of mariachi music and decided to play it for a living, that's not bad, but if a frat bro wears a sombrero because he's acting as if Mexican culture is centered around drinking on Cinco de Mayo it's bad. I hope we're all in agreement about this and just arguing about cases in the middle. "Cultural appropriation" isn't supposed to be exclusively a bad thing. It just describes the use of cultural products by people outside of the source communities that originally created them. I do see a lot of people online that seem to think cultural appropriation is always bad, and I'm under the impression they would be against white people wearing sombreros and playing mariachi music as well because they get to choose the aspects of Mexican identity they like while being immune to the prejudicial treatment of Mexican people. I see that point, but I'm also not certain I agree with it.
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Dec 26, 2015 23:53
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Hexmage-SA posted:"Cultural appropriation" isn't supposed to be exclusively a bad thing. It just describes the use of cultural products by people outside of the source communities that originally created them. I assumed the word appropriation was chosen for its connotation of rudeness.
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Dec 26, 2015 23:56
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Squalid posted:I'd like to note that I was not attempting to slander the glorious Nordic pancake tradition, but rather to say that it is easier to meet everyone's expectations when you communicate. Squalid posted:Merely stating your expectations is not "elitist" especially when someone is trying to please you anyway, and accommodations are easy. Just to be clear, I'm solely dealing with your posts. It's not as if I actually know the actual situation, just my understanding based on your description. Treating everyone as an American in this case might in reality be perfectly fine, in terms of pancake preference, but in general one should be careful about just lumping people together based on commonalities in one area, and applying it in places where it might not be appropriate. Paladinus posted:In Eastern Europe they have a dish called French meat. It's basically any slice of meat with mayonnaise, cheese, and onion or other optional ingredients baked in the oven. It's called French because it's a simplified version of Veal Orloff, a recipe created by a French chef for Prince Orloff. Obviously, its current version, especially the one you can find in any cheap restaurant, French meat has nothing to do with France. Sorry, French people, but there's no way anyone's going to change the name. Now your cuisine is forever associated with copious amounts of mayonnaise and Russian cheese. In short, the solution to complaints about "sushi" is to rename it "Japanese fish dish".
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Dec 27, 2015 00:05
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Stinky_Pete posted:Maybe I'm jumping the gun a little, but I believe it's a Mexican stereotype much like for Irish people, both because of Catholicism. The prohibition movement was largely aimed against Catholic immigrants by Protestants who viewed alcohol as the emblematic vice of the riff-raff. Its role was filled by weed after prohibition ended. I have never heard of it, but I'm not from the Southwest where I imagine such stereotypes would have the most resonance.
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Dec 27, 2015 00:06
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Stinky_Pete posted:I thought the article said they were passing it off as "authentic" Complaining about the authenticity of General Tso's is exceptionally stupid considering it's a modern dish with no agreed upon origin. In fact the only thing that it's agreed upon about that dish is that it likely invented by a hunanese chef outside of the Hunan province and it's international popularity it's wholly due to the dissemination of the version popular in America. It's kinda like chicken tikka masala and England. On top of that the student's characterization of what "authentic" General Tso's sauce is doesn't even sound like a common variation, nor the common Taiwanese version, It would lead me to suspect it's a mainland Chinese adaptation of the dish. This is like claiming racism because they served you French fries with mayonnaise in Quebec or buffalo wings that are baked instead of fried in the school cafeteria. VitalSigns posted:This is true, but if you use the name of a dish, people are going to expect it to bear a passing familiarity with that dish or they are going to feel misled. If I advertise authentic Italian cuisine, and my tomato sauce is just ketchup poured over noodles, it's not unreasonable to complain. Passing familiarity with which dish? From where? A dish with the same name can be wildly different in one province of China from another. The same dish might have wildly different names in different regions of Europe. Please stop trying to pretend this isn't a completely different context from a quality complaint whenever it's convenient to avoid scrutiny of your statements. Edit: it's also amusing that you choose Italian and tomatoes, a fruit that isn't native to Italy that is falsely associated so heavily with Italian cuisine because of their prevalence in Americanized Italian cuisine. Jarmak fucked around with this message at 00:25 on Dec 27, 2015 |
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Dec 27, 2015 00:08
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Who What Now posted:Post this supposed thread, because I'm willing to bet you're full of poo poo. I don't have archives. It was either in one of the E/N feminist threads or D&D feminist threads. Who What Now posted:No it isn't. Prove this. You can read the threads in this forum on the subject and you'll find this idea pop up a lot. Or you can read criticisms of people who are anti-affirmative action policies which basically state that by not supporting such policies, you are maintaining the racist status quo. Or you can Google "colorblindness is racism" and look through the results. I'm not making this up. silence_kit fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Dec 27, 2015 |
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Dec 27, 2015 00:27
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Hexmage-SA posted:"Cultural appropriation" isn't supposed to be exclusively a bad thing. It just describes the use of cultural products by people outside of the source communities that originally created them. But you can see why this term is problematic; how do you define who is and is not outside of a "source community" and how do you define who "created" anything?
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Dec 27, 2015 00:30
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