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Harlock
Jan 15, 2006

Tap "A" to drink!!!

Frostyfur is a third baseman somehow now?

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Armitage
Aug 16, 2005

"Mathman's not here." "Oh? Where is he?" "He's in the Mathroom."
At least the Big Man turned into a solid backup in his decline phase, but sadly the end is near.

Auk14HP
Dec 12, 2005

Screw this crap I've had it, I ain't no Mr. Cool
Hopefully Kirby can get at least one all star game under his belt before his eventual decline :(

At least he's getting paid pretty well for the foreseeable future.

Hockles
Dec 25, 2007

Resident of Camp Blood
Crystal Lake

HOCKLES OLD AND BAD NOW. BYE WORLD.

JosefStalinator
Oct 9, 2007

Come Tbilisi if you want to live.




Grimey Drawer

Harlock posted:

Frostyfur is a third baseman somehow now?

I don't quite understand that either. He doesn't even have a rating at 3rd, and he's already a bad first baseman. His fielding stats at 3rd are awful. Oh well, that's what we get for abolishing the DH!

Hockles posted:

HOCKLES OLD AND BAD NOW. BYE WORLD.

FAREWELL BASED HOCKLES YOU WILL BE MISSED.

Auk14HP posted:

Hopefully Kirby can get at least one all star game under his belt before his eventual decline :(

At least he's getting paid pretty well for the foreseeable future.

At least Kirby was the only goon smart enough to take a 5 year deal in his early 30's, rather than taking a 2 year deal then shockingly sucking after he hits 34. Job security is underrated!


Armitage posted:

At least the Big Man turned into a solid backup in his decline phase, but sadly the end is near.

There's still hope, he's a great defensive catcher! Likely due to his immense size.

JosefStalinator
Oct 9, 2007

Come Tbilisi if you want to live.




Grimey Drawer
2033 Season

Time marches on, and claims more of us...

2033 Opening Day Status




Johnson gets a reprieve first, securing another 2 year deal. I check this time, and it is indeed conditional - 14 million is guaranteed (which is awesome pay at this point) with another 15 million in a vesting option with 550 PA's. He hasn't made 550 PA's since 2027, so it's not likely he'll qualify.



:catstare: That decline. God drat. Only Bukowski remains elite, and he may even be slipping a bit now too.

Hrenchuk retires, but MacGregor and Frazier both stay alive! MacGregor has another sweet million dollars to play as backup in Minnesota, while Frazier gets 880k to be backup catcher to the Yankees. This will be MacGregor's 8th team, and Frazier's 6th.

Ordonez and McGee are still unsigned, but I don't think it'll last, at least for McGee.




But first, Mike Bukowski his a tremendous milestone. He records his 400th save, an impressive feat. He's currently 8th overall in saves in this timeline:



The main changes from our timeline, at least above Bukowski, are Aroldis Chapman and Craig Kimbrel's impressive careers. I'd say Bukowski's ceiling is 500 saves, so 4th all time should be his goal, but he's gotta resist the urge to decline and age horribly.

The next active player below him on the list is all the way down at 236 saves, if that's any indication of Bukowski's awesomeness.




Ordonez and McGee finally get new contracts, both for less than a million and only one year. Ordonez goes back to Texas (but a bit further south in Austin), while McGee is in Chicago.




Just before the All-Star break, we have our second goon on goon trade! Fostolfur and Johnson swap teams, with Johnson going back to the Dodgers, and Fostolfur going to DC.

2033 All Star Break




No Bukowski, no goons. Don't think we'll be making any more All-Star games.

MLB All Star Break Stats

Batting



Only 7 batters make any major league appearances, and most of them aren't very good. Johnson definitely isn't making that vesting option...

Pitching



Really, Bukowski's the only one worth watching anymore. 20 more saves in the books, another 40 save season please! Hardslab isn't even being used in relief :(.




More trades! MacGregor joins his 9th club, the Orioles. I think MacGregor's had the most teams AND has been the most traded. The longest he spent with one team was 4 on Toronto, 3 on Houston, and no more than one season with anyone else, including less than 1 season for his last 4 teams.




Bissel is hurt, but no matter, he's got a 5 year contract ahead of him!

2033 Regular Season Standings



Nothing else really happens, so let's see who has a shot at a cheap, last minute ring!

Bukowski has a chance to actually earn one, if the Mets can make it through the WC and to the WS.

MacGregor will try with the Orioles, McGee with the Cubs, Johnson with the Dodgers, and Ordonez with Austin.

2033 Playoff Results



Nope! Bukowski earns a loss and two saves, but the Mets suck, and lose to the Dodgers. No one else really does anything, and the Pirates win the WS.

The league actually has a meeting in November that I totally missed, and I notice something:



Looks like the MLB will be getting two new teams: The Colombus Gems and the Charlotte Federals! You guys actually have a shot at getting on one of those teams as the talent pool is spread around, and because it's unlikely that any of you will be protected but might be worth a flier in the expansion draft! How exciting!

2033 MLB Awards

None of you will win any awards anymore, aside from Bukowski, who still does not win anything.

2033 Expansion Draft Results

None of you are drafted by the new teams, in fact, you're all still free agents except Bissel and Belig! :(

2033 Hall of Fame Results



The Hall of Fame grows by three players in 2033 - Buster Posey, Chris Sale, and Aroldis Chapman all make it in, all pretty well deserved.

2033 Player Status



:ohdear:

Batting Stats



Nice work Bissel with a big recovery from the early season, and Fostolfur too for making some appearances and staying relevant (and moving back to 1B again). Everyone else either sucked or didn't play, so :rip: your new contract chances. Biggest disappointment has got to be McGee, who collapsed spectacularly and isn't even barely a backup anymore.

Pitching Stats



Bukowski owns and really wants those save records, while Hardslab has completely died. :rip:

Finances



Bissel you are a goddamned genius.

TheMcD
May 4, 2013

Monaca / Subject N 2024
---------
Despair will never let you down.
Malice will never disappoint you.

Well, at least MacGregor is a 3B, which has a bit of that positional value to i- never mind he's a 1B now. :rip:

JosefStalinator
Oct 9, 2007

Come Tbilisi if you want to live.




Grimey Drawer
2034 Season

The end is nigh.

2034 Opening Day Status



There's hope! Bukowski is the only one to get a multi-year contract, 2 years with Baltimore at about 8 million each, though the second year depends on a 40 games finished vesting option.

Johnson is the only other player with a notable contract - he signed a minor league contract with Chicago, but with a 4 million signing bonus, so I guess it's basically 4 million to play for one year?

MacGregor, Frazier, and Fostolfur all sign one year contracts with their new clubs for somewhere around 800k to 1 million. Not terrible.




Hardslab has been converted to a closer, but it's... not working out. He's trying in the minors now, but I don't think it'll last.

MLB All Star Break Stats

Batting



Only 5 batters appear, and you all kinda suck! Fostolfur is doing pretty well, but no one else with regular appearances is.

Pitching



Nooooo :(. Bukowski isn't being used as a closer anymore, for some reason. He didn't even start off that way - his 32 saves last season weren't sufficient, and now he's collapsed into a rarely used reliever. His poo poo ERA isn't really helping matters either.










You guys are tearing it up (in the minors!).

2034 Regular Season Standings



Look at this poo poo. Just look at it. They put both the new teams in the American League, so now the AL has 18* teams to the NL's 16. The AL West and AL East both have 6 teams now, so the entire AL has 6 team divisions :psyduck:.

And more shockingly, look at the results for Charlotte! 92 wins in their first season! Somehow they managed to steal 2 ace pitchers and a star shortstop, and built around them. That's definitely the best a team has ever done in its debut season, and might be the first time a new team made the playoffs their first year.

Fostolfur and Booty might get cheap rings with the White Sox, or Frazier with Baltimore. That's it.

2034 Playoff Results



Nope! I was gunning for the Charlotte Federals, because winning the World Series in your debut season would rule. But alas.

None of you come close to winning awards, so it's right to the end of the offseason:

2034 Hall of Fame Results



Mike Trout unsurprisingly is elected on his first ballot, with 99.6% of the vote. No one else seems all that prepped for induction any time soon, but the ballot swells a bit with many first timers who make 15-30% of the vote.

We should start seeing goons soon. I know Krusty will get some votes, at least. Not sure about anyone else.

2034 Player Status



Hardslab has retired :(.

Batting Stats



Fostolfur is the only saving grace this season.

Pitching Stats



:rip: anything interesting among our pitchers.

Finances



Sam Booty is pulling a Belig and trying to stage a late-career comeback.

Also,



Drew Smyly and Roughned Odor finally retired, and now all real MLB players are gone. Josh Bell is a real person (and some of the others there might be too) but all familiar faces are gone now.

JosefStalinator fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Jan 25, 2016

Ammat The Ankh
Sep 7, 2010

Now, attempt to defeat me!
And I shall become a living legend!
Why the hell is Columbus in the AL West?

JosefStalinator
Oct 9, 2007

Come Tbilisi if you want to live.




Grimey Drawer

Ammat The Ankh posted:

Why the hell is Columbus in the AL West?

Because we can't give the AL Central 7 teams, duh.

Idiot Wind
Sep 10, 2007

We hope anyone sees you again...
Does Belig keep ending up on the 40-man at the end of the season? I'm wondering why it shows him on the ML roster despite the fact that he seems to be playing in Pawtucket lol

JosefStalinator
Oct 9, 2007

Come Tbilisi if you want to live.




Grimey Drawer

Idiot Wind posted:

Does Belig keep ending up on the 40-man at the end of the season? I'm wondering why it shows him on the ML roster despite the fact that he seems to be playing in Pawtucket lol

Yeah probably. He's actually playing most of the season then poops out so they send him down to AAA. The AI is a fickle and mysterious creature.

Doltos
Dec 28, 2005

🤌🤌🤌
bukowski no :(

Harlock
Jan 15, 2006

Tap "A" to drink!!!

Did Frosty retire? I seriously think he played on 9 different teams in his career.

JosefStalinator
Oct 9, 2007

Come Tbilisi if you want to live.




Grimey Drawer
2035 Season

Our 20th season. About right that this will be one of the last, and I think we're going to be able to speed through them very quickly now. I think Bissel's 5 year contract may keep him around longer than anyone else.

2035 Opening Day Status



A bunch more 1 year deals. Johnson gets another "minor league deal" with a bigger bonus than most other players' salaries. Fostolfur somehow gets a 4.5 million dollar signing bonus with his "minor league contract", making him the second highest paid after Bissel.

Bukowski remains unsigned, along with MacGregor and Ordonez :(.




Sam Booty is the chaff in a trade of little consequence. A new place for Booty to ride the bench!

2035 All Star Break




No goons, no recognizable names. Not even worth pausing, onward to the end of the season!

And none of you make the news. Booty is the only news article this year. :(.

2035 Regular Season Standings



2035 Playoff Results

Any of you fuckers get rings?



Nope!

2035 MLB Awards

None of you, or anyone you know!

2035 Hall of Fame Results

This is probably more interesting at this point.



:wow:. This has to be the weakest Hall of Fame class in a long, long time (maybe ever?). I think it might have something to do with the fact that we are running out of real MLB players, and OOTP tends to normalize player talent to the point where there are much fewer outliers and players worthy of being voted in.

The most distressing thing about this class is the arrival of Krusty Unts, and how he only received 17% of the vote in his first ballot :(. Congrats to Krusty for even being considered HoF caliber by 17% of the voters, but I really doubt you're gonna pick up much more from here :(.

2035 Player Status



And then there were 5. Everyone else has retired, including Mike Bukowski and all other pitchers.

Somehow Belig and Booty still have jobs, and Bissel is of course on hire for another 3 seasons, so we aren't quite done yet!

Batting Stats



How the gently caress does Booty keep staying relevant? Do clubs care that their AAA teams win the AAA championships, and keep him around just for that?

But yeah, Bissel is the only one doing anything anymore.

Ammat The Ankh
Sep 7, 2010

Now, attempt to defeat me!
And I shall become a living legend!
Congrats Krusty for getting more HOF votes than Bryce Harper or Paul Goldschmit

NutShellBill
Dec 4, 2004
I AM SPUTNIK'S PARACHUTE ACCOUNT
Time to start my Hrenchuk HOF campaign.

It takes talent to stay in the majors without any source of baseball skill!

Doltos
Dec 28, 2005

🤌🤌🤌
God speed Bukowski. Like all great warriors you faded away

JosefStalinator
Oct 9, 2007

Come Tbilisi if you want to live.




Grimey Drawer
2036 Season

Might as well power through these real fast.

2036 Opening Day Status



You all somehow find jobs in 2036, a full 20 seasons after we started!

This is actually Sam Booty's 20th season, as he was drafted in the 2016 amateur draft. He didn't debut until 2020 and has only appeared in 11 seasons (and topped 100 PA in only one of them) but hey, he's 40 and he's still playing!

Also, I think MacGregor finds a job, given that he's the highest rated guy left after Bissel, even with age.




Somehow Fostolfur stays relevant in 2036 at the age of 38.




Sam Booty is still a AAA superstar at age 40! He is that grizzled veteran, showing the newbies how it's done, and shedding a tear as they begin their journey in their first major league callup.

2036 Regular Season Standings and Playoff Results





Simon MacGregor appears in two playoff games (possibly some of the last goons will appear in), but does nothing of note. No goons win any more cheap rings :(.

2036 Hall of Fame Results



Krusty makes it two ballots, but he's probably gone next time :(. I'm curious how Chuck Johnson, McGee, or Bukowski will do. I think they'll make the HoF ballot, at least.

Somehow Alex Wood is a better player than Harper and Goldschmidt.

2036 Player Status



Batting Stats



Belig, holy crap :catstare: You actually led all goons in your appearances, staying healthy all year (152 games!) with a decent OPS+ and 17 dingers. All at 39 years old!

JosefStalinator fucked around with this message at 04:44 on Jan 28, 2016

JosefStalinator
Oct 9, 2007

Come Tbilisi if you want to live.




Grimey Drawer

Ammat The Ankh posted:

Congrats Krusty for getting more HOF votes than Bryce Harper or Paul Goldschmit

Bryce Harper



The voters are idiots, Bryce was way better than Krusty. But no ~~championships~~ and only 3 All-Star appearances :smug:

Paul Goldschmidt



Goldy also won no championships, but was pretty drat strong even into the fictional seasons. But was he ~~hall of fame worthy~~?

For comparisons, the goons so far:

Batting Goons


Pitching Goons


You had positive WAR, Hrenchuk! And almost 100 dingers!

Also, Doltos/Bukowski, check this out:



Lol.

Inspector_666
Oct 7, 2003

benny with the good hair

JosefStalinator posted:

Bryce Harper



The voters are idiots, Bryce was way better than Krusty. But no ~~championships~~ and only 3 All-Star appearances :smug:

I was going to ask what the hell happened to cause Bryce to be languishing so bad. BBWWAA gonna be them, I suppose.

Also just for my curiosity what does Dellin's career look like?

New Concept Hole
Oct 10, 2012

東方動的
Reminder that Bonds barely made it in and that Ichiro was dropped. The Cyber-BBWAA apparently gives zero fucks about outfielders.

Doltos
Dec 28, 2005

🤌🤌🤌

JosefStalinator posted:

Also, Doltos/Bukowski, check this out:



Lol.

Just think if he wasn't stuck on the Mets, Marlins, and Pirates.

canadianclassic
Nov 3, 2004

Ehhh it's an accomplishment in itself to even make the ballot. I half expected to have a career of lovely AA/AAA so really this whole thing has been pretty sweet.

Hopefully Krusty can go on to lead the Cubs to some more championships as hitting/batflip coach

Armitage
Aug 16, 2005

"Mathman's not here." "Oh? Where is he?" "He's in the Mathroom."
Well, the big man will probably be one and done, even if he is eligible to be elected.

Still, not too shabby of a career, OPSed over 100, so I'll take above average :v:

IcePhoenix
Sep 18, 2005

Take me to your Shida

What the hell did Alex Wood do to get so many votes?

(also can you post buxton :shobon: )

tadashi
Feb 20, 2006

It's funny that OOTP does a decent job of using WAR when considering All-Stars and award voting but I don't think it uses it at all in HoF voting, still going by traditional benchmark stats like 500 HR, .300 average, 300 wins, etc.

If anybody cares, last March Scott Lindholm, from Beyond the Boxscore, made a 2035 HoF tracker based on players since 1950 who had 3+ WAR rookie seasons. 19 of the 187 players on his tracker have made it to the Hall (Griffey and Piazza were on the tracker but not in the Hall yet) which is about 10%. There are some other probables on the list who haven't retired or qualified yet (Jeter, Pujols, Ichiro). When you include 2015, the number of 3+ WAR rookies baloons to 196 players (8 batters, 1 pitcher). So I guess you can compare your player to these guys or something:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yqRbe_qyHD-GrYjIGI1_gWZhPGKx8gkuYDAfwjMfsA4/edit?usp=sharing

Here's the original post with a Tableu that's worth checking out if you're into HoF stuff:

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2015/3/9/8166305/baseball-2035-hall-of-fame-class-mike-trout

Idiot Wind
Sep 10, 2007

We hope anyone sees you again...
I love that Belig keeps contributing somehow after all these seasons. His page hasn't been updated since 2025/2026, but I'd love to see how he's doing at the ML level. I hope he lucks into a ring before he retires lol

Petanque
Apr 14, 2008

Ca va bien aller
After some messing around with Baseball Reference, I found a guy who had a very similar career path to Ordonez: Doug DeCinces. The stats are pretty similar, and they both had a Silver Slugger and All Star appearance. Also like Ordonez, DeCinces never won a World Series :sigh:

Whatever, made money! Though if the rest of Ordonez's life follows DeCinces', he's going to get arrested for insider trading in a few decades.

JosefStalinator
Oct 9, 2007

Come Tbilisi if you want to live.




Grimey Drawer

Doltos posted:

Just think if he wasn't stuck on the Mets, Marlins, and Pirates.

The Mets were actually really strong for a few years, but yeah the Pirates and Marlins years were not kind to him.

Inspector_666 posted:

I was going to ask what the hell happened to cause Bryce to be languishing so bad. BBWWAA gonna be them, I suppose.

Also just for my curiosity what does Dellin's career look like?

Dillin Betances


You can see the ups and downs of both Betances and the Yankees (and the other teams he played on). Hard to complain if you make it 16 seasons with a sub 3.00 ERA!

IcePhoenix posted:

What the hell did Alex Wood do to get so many votes?

(also can you post buxton :shobon: )

Alex Wood



:drat: Holy poo poo. That's... yeah. He deserves it. 4 Cy Youngs and not a single championship!

Byron Buxton



:( Buxton was a bit of a disappointment, but had a real solid stretch with Minnesota before being cursed by joining Seattle.

If you guys want any more real life players, let me know and I'll post them. I'll do a full post of all the goon players soon, once the last ones retire.

Doltos
Dec 28, 2005

🤌🤌🤌
Buxton in one of my OOTP run throughs as the Twins turned into a fragile bust that was out of baseball by 30. Also I don't think Bukowski has a shot at the HoF. In this one Phillies franchise I have Trevor Rosenthal was dropped from the ballot.

Ammat The Ankh
Sep 7, 2010

Now, attempt to defeat me!
And I shall become a living legend!

JosefStalinator posted:


If you guys want any more real life players, let me know and I'll post them.

Is Matt Duffy even in OOTP?

JosefStalinator
Oct 9, 2007

Come Tbilisi if you want to live.




Grimey Drawer

Ammat The Ankh posted:

Is Matt Duffy even in OOTP?

The game is OOTP 16, so it has everyone who was in baseball at the start of the 2015 season (may have been patched to include a bit more). So it totally underestimates Duffy and Panik's abilities for 2015 and beyond:

Matt Duffy



Joe Panik

TheFlyingLlama
Jan 2, 2013

You really think someone would do that? Just go on the internet and be a llama?



any goons manage a coaching career?

ZenVulgarity
Oct 9, 2012

I made the hat by transforming my zen

What did Jose Abreu do in his career?

IcePhoenix
Sep 18, 2005

Take me to your Shida

Buxton looks like he got wrecked by injuries :( Also even if it was only for one season, seeing him on the Yankees is depressing.

Being fair, the "wrecked by injuries" path is one I can see happening in the real world from what we've seen of him so far (please no)

JosefStalinator
Oct 9, 2007

Come Tbilisi if you want to live.




Grimey Drawer

ZenVulgarity posted:

What did Jose Abreu do in his career?



Very meh. Kept the power around, but his on base percentage tanked a bit. Also remember that the death of the DH made him a bit tougher to use late in his career.

TheFlyingLlama posted:

any goons manage a coaching career?

I'm going to finally do these after I finish a season sim real fast (they don't take long anymore).

JosefStalinator
Oct 9, 2007

Come Tbilisi if you want to live.




Grimey Drawer
2037 Season

2037 Opening Day Status



Pretty much just running out the clock, at this point.

No one even makes the news! You all find teams by the end, though.

2037 Regular Season Standings



2037 Playoff Results



I was really hoping one of you would get some bullshit ring, but it ain't happening.

2037 Hall of Fame Results



Krusty :smith: You made it three ballots Krusty, so be proud.

Stanton of course makes it into the Hall of Fame, while everyone else languishes beneath him.

2037 Player Status

Batting Stats



MacGregor's just a late bloomer, right? Also, Booty never quite got promoted :(.

Also, MacGregor ended up in Milwaukee this year - playing for his 13th team. He's definitely got the record on that one.

I'm not sure who is going to end up on the same team the longest, but it might be Hardslab, who spent all 12 years of his major league career with Arizona.

I forgot that Bissel started on Boston, but he definitely wins the award for the savviest contract. Check out his career stats, as I've highlighted the years covered by his last 5 year extension:



You fuckers who signed 2 year contracts at 33 better take notice. Bissel may retire soon, but he does so with a whole lot of cash to show for it. 18 million a year for those last five :homebrew:

JosefStalinator
Oct 9, 2007

Come Tbilisi if you want to live.




Grimey Drawer
Goon Coaching Update

Alright, I finally rounded up all the goon coaches. And really, it's... way better than I expected, with a few huge surprises. I hope some of you who had bad players or guys who pooped out fast are still reading, cause you're in for a treat.




Here's how things look at a glance. The "Reputation" of your coach is their skill level at coaching, overall. It can go up with experience (and usually does), hence why those of you at the bottom are still "unproven". I have no idea what determines this.

You also have a "management style", which I think impacts how rookies or veterans deal with you. My understanding is that controlling coaches help rookies more but piss off vets, while vets like easygoing guys, which can hurt rookie development. No idea if any of that is true or has any real game impact.

Your hitting and pitching focii are fairly self explanatory, and just impacts the development of players under your care. Some of you who turned into busts may have done so due to poor coaching - or overperformed because of good ones!

You each have your own styles, too, which I'll show off when I highlight some of you.

One other thing to note is that all of you are bench coaches (BC) or managers (MA). That's what it makes all converted players, so nothing I can do there. However, many of you have actually done other jobs like pitching coach or hitting coach, but it won't show it unless I look at each individual player.

You guys manage at various levels, and not surprisingly, the higher the level the more pay, and the more talent demanded from the coach/manager. Those of you who've already made it to AA or AAA may even get a shot to manage in the majors at some point!

But of course, two of you already have made it there!





Leonard Snart was really unspectacular as a catcher in Arizona, but his managerial career has been far better. He was hired in 2031 as the manager of the Marlins and wasn't able to do much with that poo poo team, but during his tenure on the Giants, the team improved dramatically, and he even won manager of the year in 2037! Our award drought is over!

But none of you have anything on the single best tactical mind of the goon generation:





Ricky "Tricky" Steves never even made it to the majors, but as a manager PITCHING COACH, he has the best reputation out of all of you. He took the not very good 2029 Houston Astros and saw themtheir pitching improve to the point where they won 96 games the next year. He's even was with them for two world series wins, including Texas' first (and second) ever! May even be in line for his third coming up.

I realize I messed up and first noted him as a manager, when he is in fact a pitching coach. Regardless, his legendary rating certainly played a factor in helping the Astros develop and win, and it's probably their second WS that is even more his credit, since he was able to work with a whole new set of pitchers (and develop them along the way).

JosefStalinator fucked around with this message at 07:27 on Feb 1, 2016

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IcePhoenix
Sep 18, 2005

Take me to your Shida

JosefStalinator posted:

Ricky "Tricky" Steves never even made it to the majors, but as a manager, he has the best reputation out of all of you. He took the not very good 2029 Houston Astros and saw them improve to 96 wins the next year. He's even won two world series, including Texas' first (and second) ever! May even be in line for his third coming up.

I also love that his managing style is the gritty smallballer, who doesn't believe in "shifts", and only does matchups a bit above average, and leaves his pitchers in for a long time. Always steals. Plays baseball the right way.

It's a shame that none of his managing styles actually matter since he's been a pitching coach the entire time :v:

You can probably sort of credit him with making the astros good though since their pitching has been pretty good since he came on board.

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