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Can we let the south seceded? From what I read it seems the north would be better off, tell all the minorities they're welcome to come up before that happens.
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Feb 4, 2016 18:42
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Vote Count Should we covertly try to exert more influence on the Republican nomination? A - Support Rockefeller - 18 B - Oppose Rockefeller - 18 C - Use Rockefeller to divide the Party - 2 What will be our new, major governmental initiative going into 1964? A - War on Poverty - 27 B - War on Disease - 7 C - War on Racism - 9 D - Other - 8
QuoProQuid has issued a correction as of 19:22 on Feb 4, 2016 |
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Feb 4, 2016 19:12
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B, A
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Feb 4, 2016 19:16
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Takanago posted:B, A My man.
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Feb 4, 2016 19:19
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QuoProQuid posted:Vote Count Thank you for this! Planning on updating sometime tonight.
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Feb 4, 2016 20:02
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1. B - We have enough election headaches in '64 to be going out of pocket and buying ourselves another serious opponent to overcome. It might make sense to prop him if the Republicans had a lock for the election (like, say, the public found us responsible for getting the nation stuck in a useless, costly quagmire of a cocked up police action...). At least so far that's not the climate so just leave it alone and hope whoever wins the primary comes out bruised and bloody 2. A - For a lot of reasons, but the salient one is that dollars can address poverty more directly than the others, especially in the short term and until the election is over we have to act short to win an entry into the long game.
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Feb 4, 2016 20:22
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We are going to seriously regret backing Goldwater on this one you guys
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Feb 4, 2016 20:35
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memy posted:We are going to seriously regret backing Goldwater on this one you guys Either we win, and everything's fine, or Goldwater wins and we get to play "You are Barry Goldwater." (God willing) Either way, we win.
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Feb 4, 2016 21:55
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You can't get caught for the things you don't do. We need to point to some demonstrable improvements to the quality of life in the country. We need to stay the gently caress out of greater engagement in Vietnam. Who cares about the actual country; so long as Capitalism controls an anthill somewhere in that nation we can shut down any attacks about throwing in the towel to the Communists. And finally when it comes time for an actual election we need to dominate the media coverage and sling Jumbo around big time. Messing with the other party is just going to unify them when they find out.
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Feb 4, 2016 22:09
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reignofevil posted:You can't get caught for the things you don't do. Until after the election at least. After that we can pull out.
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Feb 4, 2016 22:12
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memy posted:We are going to seriously regret backing Goldwater on this one you guys (I grew up in AZ, this is therapeutic)
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Feb 5, 2016 01:10
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Voting for whatever will goad the south into seceding.
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Feb 5, 2016 01:44
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1. Should you covertly try to exert more influence on the Republican nomination? B. Goldwater is an unelectable loon and will be easier to beat. Sorry Rocky, you’ll have to make do. 2. What will be your new, major governmental initiative going into 1964? A. War on Poverty. Poverty has increasingly become an issue that Americans are paying attention to, and a broad program that aims to provide jobs and empower impoverished communities might be a compelling challenge. January 8, 1964  Delivering your 1964 State of the Union Address Three days after you fly back from the ranch, you march to the podium set up in the House of Representatives chamber. You are mandated to give Congress this address. For the beginning of your speech, you focus on the practical realities and victories. Regarding the budget, you inform Congress that, “It will call for total expenditures of $99.5 billion.” Though more than a billion dollars more than last year, you had managed to come in under the magic figure. This allows you to urge Congress for swift action on the tax bill slowly making its way through their offices. Harry Byrd, of course, was seemingly cooperating but that had only sped the bill up a little. “I would remind you that four million workers are idle today,” you say, referring to current unemployment levels. By creating an incentive for investment and spending, the tax rate reduction should create jobs. “The tax bill has been thoroughly discussed for a year. Now we need action. The new budget clearly allows it. Our taxpayers surely deserve it. Our economy strongly demands it.” For thirteen minutes you speak of taxes, budgets, unemployment and investment rates, and so on. And then you bring up a new theme. “Unfortunately, many Americans live on the outskirts of hope - some because of their poverty, some because of their color, and some because of both. Our task is to replace despair with opportunity. This administration today, here and now, declares unconditional war on poverty in America.” What you don’t mention, other than in vague outlines, are the specific programs with which you will do this. You gently throw out a few ideas that had been discussed: special aid for the impoverished Appalachian region, community action programs, youth employment training, hospital insurance for the elderly. But you and your aides had not yet settled on what would be the first pilot program of the War on Poverty,so you leave that out. What you do focus on, sharply, is the effects of poverty. You use the words “misery” and “squalor” to describe the lives of the one-fifth of Americans living in poverty. You explain that lack of jobs and money is often a symptom, not a cause of poverty, which more often lies in lack of access to education, medical care, housing, decent communities, and inability to develop themselves. As you speak of this you remember the backbreaking labor you had to perform as a teenager. Work so hard and rough that you were the only white man doing it. Strapped into a harness with horses to tear up the rough West Texas ground for the building of roads, you would come home every day to tell your sister, “There has to be a better way than this.” “Our aim is not only to relieve the symptoms of poverty but to cure it and, above all, prevent it.” And you speak out against racial discrimination, maintaining that all members of the public should have the right to vote, send their children to good schools, and contribute to their community. You briefly invoke foreign policy, referring to Kruschev’s famous threat by saying, “We intend to bury no one, and we do not intend to be buried.” Yo even mention Vietnam, if only as a minor aside in the cause of defending freedom everywhere that it is threatened. Congress cheers as you leave the stage, and even many Republican leaders commend you. You can already anticipate a few criticisms as the press descends to get another viewpoint. They call you too idealistic, promising and end to poverty, racial discrimination, and all done cheaply. A few are wary of the budget increases over last year, but their complaints are hollow. By the next day the newspapers will be lauding you. January 10, 1964 You sit down with your staff for a foreign policy briefing. Over the past few months, an open conflict has been brewing between Indonesia and the prospective state a of “Malaysia” - a union of British colonies in the region including Malaya, North Borneo, Sarawak, and Singapore. Indonesia has been supporting rebel movements hoping to destabilize and presumably absorb or satellite Borneo. Indonesia’s leader Sukarno is a nationalist but has been veering closer and closer to the Soviet Union, and the rebels he’s supporting are nominal communists. Though he’s ostensibly part of the non-aligned movement, a stronger Indonesia would be a powerful agent of communism if it were to fall that way. The United Kingdom, a longtime US ally, is trying to forge the disparate regions of Malaysia into a unified country. Your advisors suggest sending someone to help mediate the dispute, and also use the opportunity to shore up relations with other US East Asian allies - South Korea, Japan, and so forth. Who should you send to mediate the Indonesia-Malaysia conflict and tour East Asian allies? A. The loyal General Maxwell Taylor, who can be relied on to reiterate the administration’s stance if not be especially creative. B. Ambassador to South Vietnam Henry Cabot Lodge could integrate this Asian trip as part of a broader anti-communist strategy in the Pacific. C. No one can handle this better than me. LBJ will spend a week in the Pacific at the end of January on a diplomatic mission to Indonesia, South Korea, and Japan. January 11, 1964 You’re sipping coffee, eating breakfast, and reviewing some morning reports when your secretary buzzes to inform you that he’s here. It comes as no surprise, you knew he’d come eventually. You tell her to let him in. Robert Kennedy walks across the Oval Office and sits opposite you. You keep eating, your mouth dangling even slightly more open than when you’d been alone. “Good morning, Mr. President.” He can say it now.Good. “Attorney General,” you nod. He begins to talk at length about the CIA’s reports. He’s perturbed by the depth of their association with the Mafia. Robert had made his career as Attorney General pursuing and imprisoning members of organized crime. According to him though, the documents McCone has let him see suggest the two are deeply in bed with one another, and the Mafia has links with Cuban communists. Robert expresses his suspicion that his brother’s assassin wasn’t acting alone. But there’s almost a glut of new information every day. Oswald had Soviet and Cuban contacts, Ruby had Cuban and Mafia contacts, the Mafia had deals with the CIA and the Cubans. “Of course I knew about Jack going after Fidel and all that business,” Robert says. “And a few years back the Mafia tried to pay someone to kill me. Goddamn there’s too much smoke here for there not to be a fire.” You wonder if Robert’s right. Hell, you had basically sent word to him that you considered the assassination some sort of payback. But the Kennedy Commission’s report isn’t just about finding the truth, but putting the country's mind at ease. If the Cubans are implicated there would be massive calls for retaliation. The Mafia might be a safer scapegoat if one is needed. Should you push RFK’s investigation in a certain direction? A. He seems pretty confused right now, let him stay that way. Don’t push him in any direction. B. Urge him that blaming Cuba would be bad for the country, and as a matter of the public interest he should stay away from the issue and focus primarily on Oswald rather than co-conspirators. C. The Mafia angle sounds like the kind of thing Robert would dive after, suggest that you have suspected the same thing and that he should dig deeper. Historically RFK actually went on the Indonesia-Malaysia and East Asia tour, but here he's too busy trying to solve the Kennedy assassination. LBJ thought he was doing RFK a favor by sending him, when he told Robert this later during an argument they were having Kennedy responded "Please don't do me any more favors." rakovsky maybe has issued a correction as of 07:46 on Feb 12, 2016 |
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Feb 5, 2016 08:29
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rakovsky maybe posted:“It will call for total expenditures of $99,500,000.” Though more than a billion dollars more than last year, you had managed to come in under the magic figure. Wow, how did Byrd rope us into this? I think you’re missing three zeroes.
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Feb 5, 2016 08:35
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B — We need to connect this in with Vietnam, so we'll have something else that could be marketed as a success when/if things end up going poorly there. It will be a lot easier to get the American public behind a reduction in US involvement in Vietnam if we can claim that it's to better serve our mission in Malaysia, where we'll be working not to prop up a failed state alone but to help prevent outside interference from changing the landscape of Asia, a much more accomplishable goal, especially considering that we'll have British support. C – From the start, RFK only got the role to keep him busy. He already cares strongly about fighting organized crime, and applying his zeal in that direction will if nothing else not harm the country in the way that revenge against Cuba or a public airing of the CIA's dirty laundry could. Of course, it would give him another achievement to talk up in the future, but our first goal cannot be re-election. The eternal campaign is destroying Washington.
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Feb 5, 2016 08:48
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1. B. Going in person sounds like a recipe for disaster--the region's unstable, and we need to stay at home to continue solidifying our own presidency. 2. C. Leaving him to his own devices could be disastrous, urging him to do "the expedient thing" would definitely be disastrous, but a gentle nudge in a direction he's already disposed to sounds alright.
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Feb 5, 2016 08:48
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1. B, Lodge is capable, and we don’t need the attention of a presidential visit. South Vietnam is highly unstable and in OTL had a coup on January 30, albeit a bloodless one. 2. C. Giving him no direction invites chaos, explicitly warning him from Cuba could backfire. Have the relevant agencies do some digging. Feed RFK’s obsession by giving him tons of dirt on the Mafia. He’ll seize on something. Don’t give him anything that could link the Mafia to Cuba. Platystemon has issued a correction as of 13:08 on Feb 5, 2016 |
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Feb 5, 2016 08:58
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1. B We're needed here, and we don't want the military any closer to this clusterfuck than absolutely necessary. 2. D Tell him to focus on Cuba, and that'll we'll launch Bay of Pigs II, complete with nukes, if required. If Castro's body survives the invasion, we'll bring it to him to desecrate as he pleases.
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Feb 5, 2016 09:08
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1. B. The only option that would completely backfire is going in person. High-level meetings with the President should always be an option of last resort, because if something goes wrong there is no one to blame but the President himself. That said, Taylor and Lodge are both competent individuals who would represent U.S. interests well. While sending the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs would communicate America's steadfast military support for South Korea, Japan, and others, the Malaysian Crisis needs a more delicate hand. Taylor served Kennedy very well, but we need creativity in this particular situation, and Taylor has shown himself to be adept at that. 2. A. The Kennedy Commission is turning into everything I feared it would be. He's so desperate to find meaning in his brother's death that he's gone deep down the rabbit hole and completely ignoring the possibility of a single shooter. Unfortunately, pushing him in that direction (especially as the option is phrased, jesus christ) will probably only lead to pushback and Kennedy locking us out of the process. Our only hope is to say nothing and hope that he comes to a simpler solution on his own. It was a mistake to give a grieving and emotionally unstable man this responsibility. We'll be lucky if Kennedy doesn't rope us into a War on the Mob or a second Bay of Pigs.
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Feb 5, 2016 13:05
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C A
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Feb 5, 2016 14:29
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A: The Gerakan Satu Oktober is OTL a year away, the one that would overthrow Sukarno and his goons with Suharto and his goons. Followed by gigantic anti-communist purges. Get really creative with General Taylor.  C: The days of the Mafia are numbered. Have him dig deep in there, but hint no traces to Cuba (if there are any). Also see if Khruschev can survive that upcoming coup.
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Feb 5, 2016 14:57
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1. C If you want something done, you need to do it yourself. 2. C When in doubt, blame the Mafia.
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Feb 5, 2016 15:32
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B.Henry Cabot Lodge seems like a bright fellow. And if anything goes wrong then better him than me. A.Let the cards fall where they may. If it was the mafia, great. If it was the CIA, it would provide an opening to clean house. If it was the Cuban exiles, they could be marginalized. If the Cuban government itself killed Kennedy, that would be a direct provocation, thus providing political cover to invade Cuba overtly. If we did that we could legitimately shift the focus of our military efforts away from Vietnam and towards our own back yard.
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Feb 5, 2016 15:45
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C I hear Malaysia's a great place this time of the year!  A “The whole secret lies in confusing the enemy, so that he cannot fathom our real intent.” - Sun Tzu, the Art of War.
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Feb 5, 2016 15:52
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1. B. As much as I want to practice some Jumbo Diplomacy, this is not the time or place for it. 2. A. Robert Kennedy is confused and talking up a vast conspiracy? Excellent.
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Feb 5, 2016 16:13
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nelson posted:If the Cuban government itself killed Kennedy, that would be a direct provocation, thus providing political cover to invade Cuba overtly. If we did that we could legitimately shift the focus of our military efforts away from Vietnam and towards our own back yard. I'm sure this would go over well with the Soviets, less than two years after the Cuban Missile Crisis.
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Feb 5, 2016 17:04
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B C
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Feb 5, 2016 17:33
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Carrasco posted:1. B. Going in person sounds like a recipe for disaster--the region's unstable, and we need to stay at home to continue solidifying our own presidency. Gotta agree. B, C
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Feb 5, 2016 17:46
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Platystemon posted:Wow, how did Byrd rope us into this? H.L. Hunt and J. Paul Getty promptly outspend us and create new government. Also: 1. B. We should put a civilian in charge of the tour, but we don't want to get personally involved the apparently multiple Southeast Asia situations ourselves. 1. A. Not interfering with RFK will mean that he won't start hating us even more.
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Feb 5, 2016 17:57
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Sinestro posted:B — We need to connect this in with Vietnam, so we'll have something else that could be marketed as a success when/if things end up going poorly there. It will be a lot easier to get the American public behind a reduction in US involvement in Vietnam if we can claim that it's to better serve our mission in Malaysia, where we'll be working not to prop up a failed state alone but to help prevent outside interference from changing the landscape of Asia, a much more accomplishable goal, especially considering that we'll have British support. I love the idea of tying our slow withdrawal from Vietnam to Malaysia. It gives us cover to continue withdrawing while without looking weak, since it looks like it's part of a larger plan. And yeah point the finger at the mafia, RFK will go after them with a burning fury given the whole "a few years back the Mafia tried to pay someone to kill me" thing. We'll play him like a fiddle and he'll think he's the one doing the playing. Plus, gently caress the Mafia, they're a bunch of assholes. Maybe we'll get the RICO Act a few years earlier in this timeline with Robert doing his thing. fade5 has issued a correction as of 19:43 on Feb 5, 2016 |
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Feb 5, 2016 19:38
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Grouchio posted:C: The days of the Mafia are numbered. Have him dig deep in there, but hint no traces to Cuba (if there are any). Also see if Khruschev can survive that upcoming coup. It would be fantastic if we could somehow save Khrushchev and avoid the human molasses that is Breznhev. As far as achieving that goal, though, I have no idea. We aren't in any position to influence the inner workings of the Soviet Union and with the election coming up, we can't give Khrushchev any small victories that might sate his hardliners. John Dough posted:I'm sure this would go over well with the Soviets, less than two years after the Cuban Missile Crisis. If we implicate Castro in the Kennedy Assassination, I foresee the Soviet Union dismissing it as American propaganda and propagating rumors that the CIA killed Kennedy. Sinestro posted:B — We need to connect this in with Vietnam, so we'll have something else that could be marketed as a success when/if things end up going poorly there. It will be a lot easier to get the American public behind a reduction in US involvement in Vietnam if we can claim that it's to better serve our mission in Malaysia, where we'll be working not to prop up a failed state alone but to help prevent outside interference from changing the landscape of Asia, a much more accomplishable goal, especially considering that we'll have British support. I love this idea, actually. Not sure what to call it though. The Hadrian Option? QuoProQuid has issued a correction as of 19:57 on Feb 5, 2016 |
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Feb 5, 2016 19:51
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B C
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Feb 5, 2016 21:40
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1 B 2 D, what if one of them acted alone but the other was under orders? Oswalt was a lone wolf and Ruby was dispatched to hide past ties? I'm partial to both acted alone but I doubt Kennedy is.
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Feb 5, 2016 21:52
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One additional thought of how to frame things in the future that I just had was to openly paint Vietnam as what it is: a quagmire, and insinuate that it's being kept going just enough to keep the US busy and distracted while the red fog rolls in over the rest of Asia and the world.
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Feb 5, 2016 22:20
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C Jumbo World Tour A Let him be confused. If he decides to run down the Mafia rabbithole eventually, that's great, but let him stumble around for a while before he gets there.
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Feb 5, 2016 22:53
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B C
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Feb 5, 2016 23:02
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C Has anime been invented yet? C
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Feb 5, 2016 23:09
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1488 posted:C Has anime been invented yet? Then again, Akira's still 25 years away.
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Feb 5, 2016 23:41
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C A Those yellow reds could see what a real man looks like. Be sure LBJ packs his enlarged crotch pants.
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Feb 6, 2016 00:33
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C A
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Feb 6, 2016 00:50
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