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I grew up in Australia. The first big news even I recall is the Port Arthur massacre in 1996. I also remember the response of the very conservative prime minister at the time, John Howard. Otherwise a terrible guy, he instituted sweeping gun reform: "Under federal government co-ordination, all states and territories of Australia heavily restricted the legal ownership and use of self-loading rifles, self-loading shotguns, and heavily tightened controls on their legal use by recreational shooters." Recently a video went viral asking kids at an Aussie university if they could recall the last mass shooting in Australia (maybe 1 of them could, they all were late teens/early 20s. Similar questions were asked of American kids - "yesterday" and "last week" were the answers. I have held/shot a gun once, in Vietnam on holiday, an M16. I had never heard gun shots up close in person - until last night. San Bernardino was not the first mass shooting in the US, although this was much smaller - only 4 victims: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/12/02/the-other-mass-shooting-that-happened-today-in-the-united-states/?tid=pm_pop_b Savannah is where I live today. Shotspotter technology has detected nearly 5000 shots fired this year. I can't find stats on deaths this year by shooting but one was a 9 year old girl, in a drive by shooting, while she was doing her homework. It's a high number. Other than the 4 people shot in the article, another guy was shot at 3am. I was awake and heard the shot. I didn't know what it was, although I highly guessed gunshot. I saw what was either the shooter or, as it turns out, may have been the victim as he turned up at a bar around the corner seeking assistance. Cops came at 320 having had the shotspotter pinpoint the exact location of the shot. I gave a statement - never done that before. Police reports today focused mainly on the 4 people shot but according to the police, the other one was an armed robbery (having seen this kids I would think drug deal gone bad is more likely). My point is. I don't loving understand this country. I don't understand the obsession with the 2nd amendment or why people are opposed to gun control. Why do you NEED guns?! There are countless accidents involving them, I've taken care of a brain dead 11 year old who'd been shot by his 9 year old friend accidentally, with his dad's gun, which had been left loaded on the coffee table. It feels like everyone has given up, is apathetic, that we can't DO anything to change it so why try? Savannah did manage to elect a new mayor, although how much an old white guy can do in a predominantly black city I don't know. Why do republicans offer thoughts and prayers but no solutions!? If not gun control then what!? Why is the status quo ok?! Note: if this appears to give too much info on my possible location, please don't be weird and Internet detective me goons. If people suggest I will delete this thread.
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Dec 3, 2015 06:02
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| # ¿ May 16, 2024 05:29 |
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Liquid Communism posted:gently caress you. That's why. We don't NEED guns. We also don't NEED free speech, freedom to assemble, freedom to worship how we choose, or any of a number of other rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights. Ok no need to swear at me mate I'm truly trying to understand! I feel like there's a bit of a difference between the right for guns (and ok, in the bill of rights, the founding fathers intended the guns to be for having a "well regulated militia" correct? Not sure what bearing that has today.) And as many people says, the FF didn't foresee the kind of technology we have today like automatic weapons and high capacity magazines. I understand the impact the media has, and that the trend may well be declining but I feel like my questions still stand. And maybe I should have not restricted my questions to mass shootings. Please understand it's not my intention to be judgemental. I am trying to understand something that I've never really had to deal with and now am faced with the reality of right in my face. Miranda fucked around with this message at 06:26 on Dec 3, 2015 |
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Dec 3, 2015 06:23
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Von Humboldt posted:This is your answer. Liquid might just be loving around with with you, he might not, but the sentiment is why we can't even manage a discourse about guns in this country. Gun control is not a political issue. It is a personal, emotional one. When you bring up control, a lot of people get incredibly defensive. It looks crazy and illogical to much of the world, but you're the crazy and illogical one to them - they're being perfectly rational. You're not trying to solve a violence problem - you're trying to gently caress with their dearly held personal rights, including the right to protect their family, their belongings, or themselves. You're trying to tweak a protected Constitutional Right, something enshrined as something all Americans are entitled to - including our (all too frequently real) gun owner. When you debate with them, you're debating with their personal beliefs and their personal rights, which goes as well as you might expect. Thanks, I appreciate your input. So when we have all these shootings, what do these people say is the answer?
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Dec 3, 2015 07:11
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Thanks for all your replies. I definitely agree mental illness is a huge factor and definitely needs to be addressed (not just for this matter but in general). It's also always bothered me that conservatives are all for limited government - except for the most personal of things! Women's rights, marriage, healthcare, welfare. I've never understood that and would love to have that cognitive dissonance explained to me. I certainly don't think the kind of reforms Australia implemented are realistic for this country. It was more background on why what I'm experiencing here is so foreign to me. And I understand the stats say crime is going down, I realise it's more in our faces with the media. And as sockmuppet says - there have been more shootings than days in the year this year. Even if the overall trend is down, this is insane! One thing I can't find a reason for - why can the CDC not perform research on gun violence? That seems like It should be in the purview. As I've said though - I don't think gun control in the form Aus implement is realistic here. I've said repeatedly though, how is the status quo ok? Why are we not doing ANYTHING? Another shooting today. Local high school on lockdown because a dude in the area shot his gf, she's dead. It obviously seems like here at least, most of the time these are targeted events. But bystanders/innocent victims have been killed also.
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Dec 3, 2015 17:01
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Grimshak posted:This same incident could just as easily happened without a gun. Could have been a knife, a bat, or any weapon. Okay but in the case of mass shootings, it's a lot harder to stab/beat to death 14 people.
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Dec 3, 2015 23:52
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| # ¿ May 16, 2024 05:29 |
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Okay I appreciate everyone's replies I really do. And the mostly civil tone we've been able to maintain. I have asked this but I don't know if I missed the answer. Even if the stats say these kind of shootings are rare and they're going down, they still occur. And I've now given 2 statements to police this week on shootings. Obviously I think here it's gang and drug related and retaliations and retaliations for retaliations. Putting the reasons aside, can we not all agree that SOMETHING has to change? If not the kind of measures that've been suggested, what would be ok in the eyes of most conservatives or republicans?
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Dec 7, 2015 18:24
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