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Koos Group posted:It was via nominations from PMs to me and discussions in the mod forum. Lol so people nominated anonymously. Are you sure Irony Be My Shield wasn't an ironic nomination? He's one of the posters who regularly got this thread derailed.
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Apr 7, 2024 20:27
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Marenghi posted:Lol so people nominated anonymously. Are you sure Irony Be My Shield wasn't an ironic nomination? He's one of the posters who regularly got this thread derailed. PMs aren't anonymous.
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Apr 7, 2024 20:29
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Marenghi posted:Lol so people nominated anonymously. Are you sure Irony Be My Shield wasn't an ironic nomination? He's one of the posters who regularly got this thread derailed. I'm not sure. Like the other candidates he seemed reasonably smart and in favor of debate. I was warned that his political views might be upsetting to some people, but to be honest that only made me want him slightly more. Ultimately, IKs can be removed easily and can't do a lot of damage, so unlike mods I'm not overly worried about each choice. Particularly in this case when I wanted the thread back ASAP.
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Apr 7, 2024 20:35
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Doenitz waking up one day to find out he's been appointed the new Calm Hitler (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 7, 2024 20:39
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Esran posted:Thanks, but I don't think I want to be IK'ing this thread. Is it normal to appoint people IK without asking first? lol
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Apr 7, 2024 20:50
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Koos Group posted:I was warned that his political views might be upsetting to some people, but to be honest that only made me want him slightly more. Your complaint was that this thread was unmanageable and needed to be closed while you found a solution. Your solution was sortition, weighted for political views you want to be upsetting to the majority of the posters. For a thread about an ongoing genocide. This does not seem like a course of action that will be conducive to a better conversation, quite the opposite. Nor for that matter does it seem like it will reduce work for the moderators. Why bother to re-open the thread?
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Apr 7, 2024 20:50
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Real look what you made me do type energy here
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Apr 7, 2024 20:53
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I believe punished Kissinger will make a good ik and I wish him luck in annihilating my posting enemies.
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Apr 7, 2024 20:57
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Esran posted:Thanks, but I don't think I want to be IK'ing this thread. Is it normal to appoint people IK without asking first? lol, lmao even
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Apr 7, 2024 21:09
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:Your complaint was that this thread was unmanageable and needed to be closed while you found a solution. Your solution was sortition, weighted for political views you want to be upsetting to the majority of the posters. For a thread about an ongoing genocide. I believe sortition involves a random lottery element, so this wasn't that. And it wasn't so much about posters in this thread, but people elsewhere who might complain or make a SAD thread about it, which I thought would be entertaining if it occurred. And of course if he actually IKs in an overly politically biased way he'll simply be removed, as is the case with anyone.
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Apr 7, 2024 21:11
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nbd just purposefully fomenting attrition among posters for the lols
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Apr 7, 2024 21:16
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Koos Group posted:I believe sortition involves a random lottery element, so this wasn't that. And it wasn't so much about posters in this thread, but people elsewhere who might complain or make a SAD thread about it, which I thought would be entertaining if it occurred. And of course if he actually IKs in an overly politically biased way he'll simply be removed, as is the case with anyone. Why would you act for the moderation of this thread to not to be about the people who use it? Isn't this exactly playing interforum drama games?
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Apr 7, 2024 21:35
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Koos Group posted:I believe sortition involves a random lottery element, so this wasn't that. And it wasn't so much about posters in this thread, but people elsewhere who might complain or make a SAD thread about it, which I thought would be entertaining if it occurred. And of course if he actually IKs in an overly politically biased way he'll simply be removed, as is the case with anyone. Okay, I stand corrected on sortition. Still, why are you making choices for the running of this thread about an active holocaust with an eye to causing drama elsewhere on the site for your entertainment? Leaving aside the matter of it being in astonishingly poor taste, how is that in any way of benefit to the users of SA who want to talk about it in what is supposed to be the more sensible forum for discussion?
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Apr 7, 2024 21:36
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Koos Group posted:I believe sortition involves a random lottery element, so this wasn't that. And it wasn't so much about posters in this thread, but people elsewhere who might complain or make a SAD thread about it, which I thought would be entertaining if it occurred. And of course if he actually IKs in an overly politically biased way he'll simply be removed, as is the case with anyone. Doesn't this violate Rule I.A.1? Either way, this is absolutely hilarious
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Apr 7, 2024 21:37
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hooman posted:Why would you act for the moderation of this thread to not to be about the people who use it? Isn't this exactly playing interforum drama games? Lovely Joe Stalin posted:Okay, I stand corrected on sortition. Still, why are you making choices for the running of this thread about an active holocaust with an eye to causing drama elsewhere on the site for your entertainment? Leaving aside the matter of it being in astonishingly poor taste, how is that in any way of benefit to the users of SA who want to talk about it in what is supposed to be the more sensible forum for discussion? To be clear, I didn't add him as an ik because it might create some fun. I was going to do so anyway. That was just a bonus.
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Apr 7, 2024 21:38
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Koos Group posted:To be clear, I didn't add him as an ik because it might create some fun. I was going to do so anyway. That was just a bonus. dance, puppets
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Apr 7, 2024 21:41
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Anyway, I'd like to get the thread back on-topic now. As always, you may PM me with further feedback about the thread or my decisions, wait for the next feedback thread if you'd like to bring it up publicly, or post in SAD if you'd like to bring it up both publicly and urgently.
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Apr 7, 2024 21:44
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Adding my lol to the lol pile. Also: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/05/israeli-inquiry-blames-wck-aid-killings-on-grave-errors-by-military-personnel Was surprised to see this at first but then in hindsight now. I very much doubt that the perpetrators will see serious repercussions (See the Israeli officer who went on trial for shooting a schoolgirl and continuing to shoot her unmoving prone body after she’d been shot who, said he would happily shoot a three year old and ended up with a promotion). These guys are the cost of maintain Israel’s pro-Western relationship. They get to show that “Hey war is horrible but look at us we’re so so moral because we’re holding these two people to account” while doing nothing to stymie the exact same mindset which is systematically killing countless thousands of Palestinian citizens. Less sure about the recent announcement that Israel is withdrawing troops from South Gaza: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/07/israel-withdraws-troops-from-southern-gaza-for-tactical-reasons At a guess I’d say it’s simply to have a breather and recoup (while continuing to bomb plenty of Palestinians) before continuing, but happy to hear anyone else’s more informed guesses.
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Apr 7, 2024 21:45
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I will make no apologies for the terror. thank you.
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Apr 7, 2024 22:10
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The biggest story that has happened since the thread's closure is Israel's killing by drone strike of 7 aid workers from the World Central Kitchen. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-68710515 This was not a random stray - the strike involved multiple missiles hitting multiple vehicles in the convoy. Given that the IDF specifically sanctioned and was told about the convoy, there are only two real explanations I can see for Israel's actions, both of which are extremely damning: 1. They deliberately went after the convoy in order to discourage future aid to Gaza. The WCK has announced that it's stopped operations following the strike. I do think that starvation has increasingly become a part of Israel's strategy for this war, and this would be a way to do that, although killing foreign aid workers seems like a worst diplomatic cost for them to incur than simply preventing them from entering in the first place. I also don't think Israel would want to spectacularly burn all bridges with an aid organisation when they're trying to push for such organisations to replace UNRWA. 2. The IDF is targeting drat near everything that moves without making any kind of checks on what it is. I think this is more likely, as it fits with the IDF's previous killing of 3 hostages attempting to escape and many other strikes in the war. There has certainly been a chorus of international condemnation, and I think it has been seen as an escalation due to the extraordinarily targeted nature of the attack and the fact that most of the victims were foreign nationals from countries that are largely supportive of Israel. My question is though - have there actually been any international moves towards consequences for Israel? While the rhetoric against them is ever-escalating it still doesn't really seem like Israel's allies are prepared to take direct measures against them. I think that's because they still fundamentally regard the ends for Israel's war as legitimate even as they criticise their means. And if they think their interests are ultimately better served by Israel winning than by a frozen conflict where Hamas continues to stay in power then they're not likely to flip. team overhead smash posted:Less sure about the recent announcement that Israel is withdrawing troops from South Gaza: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/07/israel-withdraws-troops-from-southern-gaza-for-tactical-reasons https://edition.cnn.com/2024/01/01/middleeast/israel-to-withdraw-some-troops-from-gaza-intl/index.html That example is interesting since they may have done it to prepare for a possible Hezbollah attack following the killing of al-Arouri. It's possible Israel fears that Hezbollah may make a move again given Israel's extraordinary attack on the Iranian consulate in Syria. Irony Be My Shield fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Apr 7, 2024 |
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Apr 7, 2024 22:13
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Irony Be My Shield posted:My question is though - have there actually been any international moves towards consequences for Israel? While the rhetoric against them is ever-escalating it still doesn't really seem like Israel's allies are prepared to take direct measures against them. https://twitter.com/RepMarkPocan/status/1776365525985042443
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Apr 7, 2024 23:06
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FlamingLiberal posted:It doesn't seem like there is anything concrete yet. Some House Dems (including Nancy Pelosi) sent a letter to the WH saying that the government needs to start withholding offensive arms transfers to Israel. As far as I know, the WH has not changed any of their stances. How are offensive weapons going to be discerned? Miller indicated the other day they saw the 2,000 lb bombs mentioned in this letter (additionally F-35s) as being defensive. E: Department Press Briefing – April 1, 2024 - United States Department of State www.state.gov - Mon, 01 Apr 2024 posted:
mawarannahr fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Apr 7, 2024 |
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Apr 7, 2024 23:08
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defensive bombs defensive bullets defensive nuclear missiles
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Apr 7, 2024 23:10
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Something I saw a few days ago, not sure if anyone else has detailed the problems: Gaza evacuation warnings from IDF contain many errors, BBC finds quote:The 26 separate warnings we found contained specific information from the IDF that people could use to escape areas of danger. But 17 of them also contained errors and inconsistencies. I don't know if it will help convince anyone who still thinks the IDF is trying to prevent civilian casualties, but it's another clear sign that they DGAF.
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Apr 7, 2024 23:41
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it has been interesting to see Western press start running all the stories they were suppressing the last few months. Youd think Israel just started committing massacres this week.
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Apr 7, 2024 23:50
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punishedkissinger posted:it has been interesting to see Western press start running all the stories they were suppressing the last few months. Youd think Israel just started committing massacres this week. That's been my impression as well. Quite infuriating.
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Apr 8, 2024 00:01
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There's now a concerted push happening in the UK to stop arms sales to Israel. A government MP was secretly recorded saying she was sure the government's lawyers had told ministers that Israel was comitting Genocide under the Convention, and that government were suppressing/ignoring the advice so they can continue supplying Israel. Over 700 lawyers, King's Councils, former judges (unusual for them to intervene), and former Justices of the Supreme Court (including a former President of the Court) published an open letter stating that the government would be, in what amounts to a legal opinion, in breach of the Genocide Convention if it continues to support Israel. The Civil Servants union has demanded the government's legal advice be made public, and that it will go to the courts to force it if the government do not cooperate. Because Civil Servants do not want, and cannot be made, to break the law. And "just following orders" is not a defence under the Genocide Convention. Meanwhile the governing Tory party is apparently in-fighting over this matter. With calls from within the party to remove three MPs in the Conservative Friends of Israel parliamentary lobbying group, for serving the interests of Israel above the UK. The more mental right-wing of the party, lead by Priti Patel, a potential future leader who was once strip of her ministerial office for trying to conduct secret parallel foreign policy with Israel, are pushing for continued support. The two main parties in parliament have been extremely supportive of Israel up to this point, with weaponised accusations of anti-semitism used against critics and protesters. This is a relatively new trend, and blatantly the result of lobbying/corruption/expediency. Labour's leadership have used it as part of a cynical internal power struggle, while the more extreme right of the Tories naturally align with a similarly minded government. But this is very much not reflected in the national mood. As of the last polling I saw 56% of the UK population is in favour of stopping arms to Israel, with only 17% against.
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Apr 8, 2024 00:37
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Was holding onto this for when the thread reopened - an interview between an American anti-Zionist Rabbi* and an Israeli anti-Zionist/Feminist activist [there is zero discussion of religion in the video]. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0ZXr33Vock Some interesting points: -The way her group organized against eviction of both Palestinian non-citizens and Israeli citizens as a common struggle -Her initial elation at October 7, which was quickly tempered at learning about mass civilian casualties -The fact that a lot of (it sounds like the vast majority of) Israelis are barely conscious of atrocities taking place in Gaza, and basically only consume domestic media where these things are not discussed -Tensions among anti-war activists, whether they want to overturn the Nakba or just end the current war or anything in between My big takeaway was a reaffirmation of my intuition that while there are people of courage and integrity in Israel, they're not ending the war from inside, not any more than Sophie Scholl could actually stop WW2. The war will end exactly when Joe Biden decides he'll lose more votes from its extension than from its cessation - or, if Trump is elected, when Gaza has been totally recaptured by the Israeli state and they've done all the ethnic cleansing they want to do. *Rabbi Brant is a real profile in courage - he was a normal liberal Rabbi leading a normal liberal congregation, meaning of course they were all staunch liberal Zionists, and he just changed his mind based on what he saw and read until he got kicked out of his own Synagogue. His Congregation Tzedek (Hebrew for "Justice") has been doing a lot of work to organize protests and demonstrations in Chicago. Civilized Fishbot fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Apr 8, 2024 |
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Apr 8, 2024 00:49
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Ograbme posted:Doenitz waking up one day to find out he's been appointed the new Calm Hitler (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 8, 2024 00:56
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Koos Group posted:Yep. A long time ago full mods were chosen that way, and weren't even given a private message explaining it. They were expected to eventually notice their buttons and start using them. This approach is strange, weird, and odd approach it is yet goon tradition and I think it should be respected. Adam Grant, did a blurb that picking people at random is actually better than those the volunteer because those that seek power tend to have questionable motivations. Good luck thread!
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Apr 8, 2024 06:20
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What resources do ya'll use to keep up with this conflict? I read Le Monde (in French) and Haaretz (in Hebrew) occasionally, with a heaping of salt (and this thread, obviously). I'm absolutely not going to use Twitter for news coverage, though. I'd rather be ignorant.
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Apr 8, 2024 09:31
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kiminewt posted:What resources do ya'll use to keep up with this conflict? I read Le Monde (in French) and Haaretz (in Hebrew) occasionally, with a heaping of salt (and this thread, obviously). Al Jazeera.
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Apr 8, 2024 10:28
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Asaf Ronel (an ex-Haaretz independent journalist) is a pro Twitter follow for I/P updates. He got onto my radar by doing solid work on the Great March of Return massacre.
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Apr 8, 2024 11:16
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I'm using the NY Times, Washington Post, Bangkok Post, Haaretz, Al Jazeera, etc. There is a lot of content on Telegram as well but that is very, crazy at times.kiminewt posted:I'm absolutely not going to use Twitter for news coverage, though. I'd rather be ignorant. There is a lot of partisanship but there are still a lot of independent journalists still using the platform that exist no where else. Gucci Loafers fucked around with this message at 11:45 on Apr 8, 2024 |
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Apr 8, 2024 11:43
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Gucci Loafers posted:There is a lot of partisanship but there are still a lot of independent journalists still using the platform that exist no where else. Yes - if you're not comfortable with twitter in general because of assholes, start creating a list of journalists and others to follow and just put a bookmark to that list. Essentially a new home feed for you without bs you're not interested in. Asaf Ronel is good. I might put together a list of my recommendations with handles later on today/this week.
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Apr 8, 2024 12:19
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You can't see feeds properly without an account, and at any rate I find that I get dragged into other things if I even enter twitter. I understand why it's useful but I can't partake. Shame that more people don't just have a blog mirror of their tweets.
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Apr 8, 2024 12:59
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kiminewt posted:What resources do ya'll use to keep up with this conflict? I read Le Monde (in French) and Haaretz (in Hebrew) occasionally, with a heaping of salt (and this thread, obviously). Apart from this thread, I mostly read Reuters and BBC. People often complain that some stories are suppressed in Western media, which is honestly not my experience with what I see on these two. All major stories that were discussed in the thread were also extensively covered there, which in my mind is a good metric. For a lot of stories, I also try to check either primary sources or Al-Jazeera, since they have more access to key players from the Arab world as well as people on the ground. Although I don't actively follow anyone on twitter, I will say that there are still a lot of accounts there (often brought up in this thread) who do a stellar job at highlighting some less-obviously important stories, providing more context to current events, or just doing regular journalism. It's good supplementary material if you want to focus on a specific story.
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Apr 8, 2024 13:03
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World Famous W posted:i take back everything ive said about you. follow the plan, trust the process
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Apr 8, 2024 14:20
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Hong XiuQuan posted:Al Jazeera. Al Jazeera for accuracy, then Jpost/Jtimes/Nytimes to see the spin. Earlier on there was a ton of reporters on the ground within Gaza who were doing very good firsthand reports. Unfortunately Israel has killed or forced nearly all of them to flee the country.
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Apr 8, 2024 14:31
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I follow the Guardian live tracker personally. I like the format since it makes some attempt to be comprehensive (I have never felt it was lacking critical information) and is a relatively low time commitment while containing a lot more information than a Twitter account follow would due to the character limit there. If something seems particularly interesting I will generally go and read articles on it. The Al Jazeera and BBC trackers also seem perfectly good for this purpose. There are some times when it's useful to read Twitter (eg statements from public officials can be statements of position and newsworthy in and of themselves) but I really would not recommend using it as your sole or primary source of news. For example I wouldn't really say there's anything wrong with the Asaf Ronel account recommended above, but if you're just reading that then often all you're really getting is some headlines related to the conflict and a few <280 character takes regarding them. For example, see today's (image for people who don't have Twitter accounts): https://twitter.com/AsafRonel/status/1777236595751498215  What does this mean, exactly? Is he implying that Israel has actually stopped the slaughter? Has there been some major sanction against Israel that implies this will happen in the future? You'd have to go away and read actual news articles to find out what he's alluding to (if anything) because Twitter is a format far better suited to pithy takes than it is to informing people. You need more information than this to be able to reach your own informed opinion, especially in a conflict like this where virtually all on-the-ground journalists have been forced out and you often only have information from clearly interested parties.
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Apr 8, 2024 15:04
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