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The Insect Court posted:If you're going to insist that anti-Zionism has nothing to do with Jews and that you simply reject entirely the idea of the nation-state then you're going to have to do a better job coming up for an excuse for why you want to see the despised Jewish state replaced by a Palestinian state. Or is this going to be one of those horseshoe theory moments and you're going to insist there are no such thing as the Palestinian people, so a Palestinian right of return doesn't favor a particular ethnic-national group? Are you capable of arguing against any point people have actually made? Nobody has demanded that Israel should be replaced by a Palestinian nation-state, let alone one founded on ethnic supremacy. You're a thread regular; you know this much. What purpose does tilting at this ridiculous straw man serve?
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Dec 23, 2015 08:24
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The Insect Court posted:Meanwhile, in these threads, there are people who fall all over themselves to explain how a 14 year old(or younger) Jew in the West Bank is a legitimate target. They never seem to see the irony, however. Are you referring to the guy you quoted from three or four threads back when asked to provide actual examples of anti-Semitism in these threads? Because that's the last time I recall you actually quoting the people you're constantly bringing up in your posts. Speaking of threads, I don't think you ever explained where Palestinians came from, after claiming they weren't indigenous to the region.
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Dec 31, 2015 09:27
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The Israeli police even had reason to believe that the teens were already dead and no reason to believe anyone in Gaza knew anything about them, but that didn't stop Bibi from kicking off Protective Edge. It only became about rocket storages and terror tunnels when it turned out that the original justification didn't hold and the IDF wanted to escalate anyway. Are there any good sources about the first stages of Protective Edge? I remember reading about some 400 Palestinians being arrested without charge in relation to the kidnapping, including everyone released in a previous deal with HAMAS, but I've never been able to find out what happened to them after the case was solved.
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Jan 1, 2016 19:34
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XMNN posted:hi insect boy do you acknowledge that the idf has committed war crimes eg during their recent mowing the grass campaigns yes or no Also are Palestinians indigenous to Palestine, and if not, what is the region to which they're indigenous?
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Jan 10, 2016 09:33
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team overhead smash posted:An armed guard of an occupying force at an illegal settlement in the West Bank is a legitimate military target. What's terrorist about her actions? If we're calling people terrorists, isn't the guard the terrorist for carrying out war crimes? gently caress, when a 13 year old girl manages to follow the law of war better than 'the most moral army in the world', you know the IDF are pretty twisted. Effectronica doesn't actually believe that, he's just facetiously representing the implicit views of a bunch of the shittier pro-Israel posters (and the explicit views of at least a couple).
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Jan 24, 2016 12:04
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Baloogan posted:If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. What about the right to not be born into a prison camp? The right to not suffer collective punishment? The right to not be discriminated against for your ethnicity? Am I to assume you believe the right to gun down children wielding knives is really greater than any other liberty you can imagine? E: Okay, fair's fair. The right to tell people that gunning down children wielding knives is an acceptable precaution. Zulily Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 16:25 on Jan 25, 2016 |
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Jan 25, 2016 16:21
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The misrepresented quote paints him as a comic book villain, while the proper context just makes him look like an idiot. He's said and done a lot of heinous poo poo, but piling half-truths and dodgy quotations on top just muddies the message.
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Jan 26, 2016 17:51
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I've always been puzzled by that narrative. What reason do anti-Semites have to oppose Zionism, assuming we're talking about white guys who also hate Muslims?
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Jan 27, 2016 18:02
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Cat Mattress posted:There's a bunch of conspiracy nuts for whom "zionist" is shorthand for "the malevolent secret cabal of Jewish Freemason Communists who control the world through banks, fluoridated water, and mind-control technology developed by the lizard people from the Hollow Earth". Oh, yeah, I know about that crowd. I guess that's usually the context in which anti-Zionism comes up, and odds are that any self-proclaimed anti-Zionist is really an NWO basket case. With that in mind, I can definitely understand and agree with the Facebook post in question.
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Jan 27, 2016 18:45
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The Insect Court posted:Yeah, I bet not-quite-neo-Confederates who want their Confederate flag mudflaps and bikinis but who consider themselves "colorblind" don't like being reminded about the ineluctable historical and ideological connection between racism and symbols of the Confederacy either. Reminder that your previous post in this thread was defending a guy who called for state-sanctioned family rape by saying he followed it up with "but I don't like actually endorse it, I'm just saying if you're really dedicated to stopping terrorism..." Why does he get that kind of slack, when you seem to have a hard time distinguishing between people who call refugee rights inviolable and David loving Dees? Also thanks for posting pictures of dead babies. You're a swell guy.
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Jan 27, 2016 18:58
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The Insect Court posted:"Jews run the world with the help of secret lizard aliens? What a nut! Everybody knows Jews run the world without any alien help Since it is apparently a central belief to at least half the posters in this thread, can you please please please quote a singe post where someone expresses the view that Jews run the world?
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Jan 27, 2016 21:33
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" isn't something anyone should pat themselves on the back for believing.
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So your position is that Egypt and Jordan have an obligation to let Palestinians be "resettled," but Israel has no obligation to stop ethnically cleansing them? Why do Egypt and Jordan have to observe human rights if Israel gets to ignore them?
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Jan 28, 2016 23:35
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hakimashou posted:The fact is, we did displace and in many cases annihilate the indigenous population of North America in order to create the USA. It puts us in a rather weak position to condemn Israel for doing something similar. For the sake of moral consistency, how would you respond to the following scenarios: A) A European nation is committing the Holocaust and invading neighboring nations. Should the US declare war and/or otherwise interfere? B) Israel loses "its war with the Arabs." They're subjected to colonial-era conditions, slavery and all the things Americans aren't allowed to criticize. What, if anything, should be done in response?
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Jan 31, 2016 16:09
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hakimashou posted:Well, for one thing, narrowly avoiding extermination and suffering all that horror for so long might cause people to belive, after having lost so many friends and loved ones, "this proves that it really is us or them and we can be sure our very survival is really at stake." Going with that logic, why wasn't the Holocaust justified? Germany in 1938 had suffered through nearly a generation of warfare and poverty at the hands of European nations, and finally decided that "we" were more important than "them." Were their actions not justified because their suffering fell short of actual genocide, and would they have been justified otherwise? What if Germany had been lovely and poor for a hundred years first? And how long does the justification last? Jews in Israel live significantly safer and more comfortable lives than anyone in the neighboring countries. Are they allowed to commit ethnic cleansing and war crimes until the end of time, or is there a statute of limitations? Zulily Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Jan 31, 2016 |
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Jan 31, 2016 17:07
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Ultramega posted:Lol at this whole page honestly. Even if I can't imagine hakimashou convincing anyone that genocide is cool as long as you're the biggest dog, or TIC convincing people that human rights are anti-Semitic, it's still important to challenge their arguments for the purpose of thread lurkers. A lot of their arguments could easily be compelling to an outsider who's not versed in the context of the situation. Just earlier today, it was suggested that reading Benny Morris would provide an unbiased view of the I/P conflict. Ideally posters would go away after unironically arguing for genocide, but we haven't that luxury.
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Jan 31, 2016 18:32
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The Insect Court posted:In other news the Zionist octopus, as part of its sinister plot to exterminate the Palestinian people, has sentenced the two Israeli teenagers who carried out the murder of Abu Khdeir. That is pretty good news. Did anything ever happen to the police officers who tried to beat a US citizen into confessing that Abu had been killed by his family for being gay?
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Feb 4, 2016 18:01
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The Insect Court posted:You'll have to clarify, it's hard to distinguish between all the bad faith non sequiturs made to avoid having to address legitimate issues ands important news stories that I mention. Well, you've made the claim that suggesting that Palestinians are indigenous to Palestine is obviously just bald anti-Semitism, but you never answered to what region you believe Palestinians to be indigenous. You've repeatedly stated that Palestinian refugees should not be entitled to the rights outlined by the UN in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and anyone claiming otherwise is clearly not concerned with human rights but just scheming to destroy Israel. Are there any other human rights you think should not apply to specific demographics, or is it only Palestinians? Why/why not? You've claimed that everything destroyed in Operation Protective Edge was a legitimate military target, including vital infrastructure like waste and water treatment facilities that had been reported to Israeli intelligence as void of military personal beforehand. What targets could be bombed by the IDF that you would not consider to be legitimate military targets, if any?
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Mar 28, 2016 22:11
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hakimashou posted:Israel is our friend and the Palestinians aren't, especially post 9/11. I think we're all aware that Islamophobia and Israel being a "western-style democracy (not run by muslims)" are the reasons Israel gets to run an oppressive apartheid regime. You've made this post a billion times. Do you actually believe Islamophobia is a legitimate justification for gross human rights violations, or are you just dropping off some realpolitik hot takes?
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Mar 31, 2016 13:50
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hakimashou posted:What I mean is, this ^ You keep repeating that point, but you're not answering the question that's being asked. Do you believe that America does support Israel over Palestine because Palestinians are filthy browns and the voting public is too stupid and/or racist to tell them apart, or that America should support Israel over Palestine because Palestinians are filthy browns and therefore are bringing it on themselves by insisting on being Muslim? It's a pretty important distinction.
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Apr 6, 2016 21:11
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hakimashou posted:I don't know what 'filthy browns' means and I dont know what you mean by 'insisting on being muslims' or any of the other bizarre gibberish you posted there. Do you agree that America is correct in supporting Israel because Muslims did 9/11, or do you observe that America happens to support Israel because Muslims did 9/11? I'm not asking you to repeat your previous points, I want you to clarify your stance. I don't think I can make it any simpler than this.
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Apr 6, 2016 23:04
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If he was referring specifically to Protective Edge, the UNHRC says 2,251 Palestinians were killed in military action, so he would be way off. If he means military casualties since 1949, or deaths from exposure or treatable illness due to lack of infrastructure, I have no clue, but 10,000 would be a conservative estimate for either.
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Apr 7, 2016 21:28
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Kim Jong Il posted:The kidnappings were done by a Hamas member and planned by a rogue faction, albeit acting independently of leadership. It was not full scale Protective Edge until Hamas proper started strikes in early July in an effort to ratchet up pressure, before then it was just tit for tat. What about the IDF raids, airstrikes and mass arrests that preceded those rocket strikes? I guess those were just little tits for the tat of a kidnapping that occurred in the West Bank?
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Apr 8, 2016 13:02
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The Insect Court posted:Kind of a no-brainer why that's objectionable, but the broader point of the article is that while utterly blatant acts of antisemitism are (sometimes) declaimed by campus organizations there's a willful blindness towards antisemitism in general and anti-Zionism masquerading in antisemitism in particular, like the same Oberlin student body that found sushi in the cafeteria 'problematic' not having much of a problem with a professor who accused Jews of stealing organs. captainblastum posted:Are you ever going to address the questions that people have asked you repeatedly?
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Apr 11, 2016 11:13
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captainblastum posted:Are you ever going to address the questions that people have asked you repeatedly?
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Apr 12, 2016 09:31
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Main Paineframe posted:Stop getting trolled, you idiots. Besides, who here has any right to get their hackles up over vague insinuations of racism, considering how many of us have hurled that exact accusation at people in the I/P threads? Deflect it and move on. This entire page, so far, has been nothing more than people shitposting either at or (more often) about TIC. How about some content or discussion? A lot of SA posters avoid this thread because it is considered a hotbed of anti-Semitism, and presumably a fair amount have decided on that after reading or skimming some pages of the thread. As long as TIC is allowed to post in this thread and posts things that appear reasonable on a surface reading, I think it's important to call out his bullshit in a reasoned fashion. Telling him to gently caress off or posting poo poo like Dabir posted:Right yeah thanks, I think I forgot to clarify that what with getting probied. What I was saying there was that if Hitler had won, we wouldn't have to put up with your posting. Now gently caress off. is what fucks up the thread. Main Paineframe posted:And while I am happy to provide material to kick-start things, it doesn't mean much if everyone's going to ignore it because they're too busy hurling one-liners and abuse. Personally, I'm not too worried about anti-Semitism accusations from the kinds of people who write poo poo like this: This is also a pretty good example of stuff that seems reasonable on a surface reading. It has some red flags like "self-loathing Jews" and "most moral army in the world," but claims like Hamas using human shields and the UN having a bias against Jews are considered factually true in most Western media.
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Apr 12, 2016 22:28
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Nevvy Z posted:Source? Well, I'm admittedly extrapolating from like two non-Baloogan forums posts I've read. Call it an exaggeration. drilldo squirt posted:It's a testament to how much the oppressor hates and fears the oppressed that israeli lawmakers would rather work with nazis than palestinians. Also that the neo-nazi thinks Israel has the right ideas and that this is apparently a good thing.
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Apr 14, 2016 18:02
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hakimashou posted:Does Hamas give life in prison or does it give the death penalty to Palestinians who murder Israelis? I'm no expert, but I don't think Israel allows Palestine to have any sort of jurisdiction when it comes to crimes committed against Israelis.
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Apr 20, 2016 22:14
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I don't think it's that strange for people to believe the IDF is in the right. The Israeli narrative has a pretty strong media presence, and even if you're savvy enough to steer clear of "they want to kill all Jews" and "most moral army in the world," you'll learn that Hamas uses human shields and provoked the IDF by kidnapping those teenagers and/or launching rockets at Israel. They even set up a propaganda department during Protective Edge to churn out posters justifying the bombings of major landmarks and civilian centers, and at least a dozen iterations of "Israel uses missiles to defend its people, Hamas uses people to defend its missiles." In addition, the IDF makes a lot of token concessions toward preventing civilian casualties. like dropping flyers telling people to evacuate without providing anywhere to which people actually could evacuate, or unilaterally declaring a humanitarian ceasefire after bombing a comm station and then being surprised when Hamas agents violate it. The UNHRC and Amnesty International seem to be the only major western agents to want to hold the IDF responsible for their actions, and I will admit that I am a bit baffled when people dismiss those out of hand. Kim Jong Il posted:Part of it's causation, in that Israeli actions in Gaza are fundamentally in response to Hamas, even if you want to argue about the recent tit for tat, that's clearly the genesis as Israel has renounced territorial claims on Gaza. Secondly, there isn't a meaningful distinction any more between Hamas and a governmental actor, they are the elected government. I'm sure you'll argue that it's ultimately their own fault, but I'm pretty sure a lot of recent Hamas action is in response to the fact that they live in a bombed out open-air prison whose borders are controlled by Israel.
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Apr 22, 2016 09:06
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Everybody's ultimate destination is the grave, buddy.
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Apr 27, 2016 21:02
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hakimashou posted:When hamas uses UN facilities to stage attacks of terror on the State of Israel and its people, and then the Israeli Defense Forces respond by striking those facilities, and the UN blames the jews for it, it makes you think. Hey, this sounds a lot like something that didn't actually happen. Could you perhaps expand on this a bit? Are you referring to the vacant and abandoned UN facilities where mortars were discovered, for which Hamas was admonished, or the UN facilities that the IDF shelled in spite of having intelligence confirming that they sheltered civilians and contained no weapons? It seems really strange that you would conflate the two, so I'm assuming that you're referring to a separate event for which I'm just unable to find documentation.
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May 3, 2016 10:59
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Main Paineframe posted:"and besides Mr. Chief of Staff, we didn't defeat the Nazis." I love when people destroy their own argument on multiple levels with a simple statement like this. It's loving poetry. Is there a name for this kind of thing?
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May 4, 2016 22:19
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Dead Reckoning posted:That doesn't really have anything to do with what we're discussing. What are you discussing, then? You were arguing that it's not a crime to bomb a hospital as long as it's just an oopsie, and he responded by bringing up a situation where someone repeatedly and deliberately shelling defenseless children was also not a crime because someone higher up the chain had said they were a legitimate target. Why is no one accountable in that scenario? Is it also moral to bomb volunteer doctors if a US marshal tells you to, and an internal investigation decides that he was in the right?
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May 7, 2016 11:19
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When are you going to post that list of Israel critics/Palestine supporters that haven't been accused of anti-Semitism? You are still of the position that spurious accusations are not a major issue within the discourse, yes?
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May 10, 2016 07:01
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Who was it that wanted to solve the Gaza problem by setting up a handful of camps into which Gazans could be concentrated, without a shred of irony? It wasn't Lieberman, was it?
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May 20, 2016 23:43
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I'm assuming you would be cheerleading exactly as much if Palestinians were in a position to ethnically cleanse Jews, because they too have a direct grudge and animus, yes?
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Jun 3, 2016 09:35
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TIC, to where do you personally believe Palestinians should be relocated, given that they are apparently not native to Palestine?
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Jun 5, 2016 09:30
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Cat Mattress posted:You're allowed to be opposed to Israel's policies, as long as this is only expressed through a moderate amount of mild tut-tutting but you still give them your full unconditional material support in all their endeavors. Are you? That's what Obama did and he's caught a ton of flak for it.
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Jun 11, 2016 13:50
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Kim Jong Il posted:I think they're stupid in general (see above knocking the NYC boycott), but it's not all boycotts, it's Barghouti's boycott. There are groups like the PA that boycott the settlements and whatever. Barghouti's boycott is both collective punishment and has the end game of ethnic cleansing. What are you views on the BDS movement Re: South Africa?
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Jun 11, 2016 16:25
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Reminder that TIC and KJII both have repeatedly claimed it's anti-Semitic to propose that basic human rights should be extended to Palestinians. One could argue that cheapening the term to such an extent does more harm than good, but I can imagine what they think of that argument.
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Jun 14, 2016 14:31
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What anti-Semitic claims would he be echoing, exactly? Was it common to accuse Rabbis of wanting the government to poison Muslims in medieval times? I haven't heard of it, but perhaps you could back it up with some kind of source?
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Jun 25, 2016 08:48
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