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I think it would be a lot more fruitful to argue whether or not israeli policies are liberal or illiberal rather than argue with T.I.C. Different i/p thread, same tired rear end whataboutist arguments and flights of fancy utterly divorced from what people are actually discussing. 
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Dec 23, 2015 11:01
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Lady Morgaga posted:Most harmless stabbing in last 3 months. Boo loving hoo. Please leave.
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Dec 24, 2015 22:11
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It's real cool how the new thread already is a mere 5 pages long and a new challenger has appeared in the quest to never, ever have anyone criticize israel on the internet and not be branded an antisemite. Goddamn, drop that poo poo in the social media cesspool where sentences like likeThe Insect Court posted:Just gonna go ahead and point out that anyone who thinks stabbing a picture is worse than stabbing actual people to death is probably a morally loathsome human being. and Lady Morgaga posted:Well it was perfectly innocent picture unlike those vile Zionists that undoubtedly deserved stabbing. will be welcomed and liked ad infinitum. It's totally a thing that in this world, when decrying multiple wrongs one must pick one, and only one to get especially froggy about otherwise you're just a hypocrite for thinking two things can be perhaps not equally, but in varying degrees hosed up. Thank.
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Dec 25, 2015 01:08
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Did everything you learn about the israeli/palestinian conflict come from an episode of south park?
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Dec 29, 2015 08:35
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team overhead smash posted:There are people, myself included, who consider the Palestinians to have a right to resistance and that many of these acts are justified. My sentiments exactly. To also keep it 100, in the last thread I defended violent action on the part of the palestinians against occupation forces and I totally got shut down by someone who said something like "detonating a suicide bomb in a nightclub isn't fighting against occupation." Which is correct but still kind of sidesteps the point about what is and is not a valid target of direct violent action.
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Dec 31, 2015 17:36
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Main Paineframe posted:On the other hand, recorded history. The excuse for Protective Edge, as I recall, was the kidnapping and murder of just three people in the West Bank. An ordinary domestic attack, nothing to do with rockets, but it was still enough to kill a thousand Gazans. Like I said, if the strong power wants to attack and is just waiting for an excuse, then they will find one. The question is not "if" but "when", and "when" is measured in "months" rather than "years". I'm not just talking Israel - the history of imperialism is just rife with cases like this, and it always ends up as an ultimately inescapable predicament. There's been tons of cases of that kind of unspoken ultimatum, and it almost always ends badly for the little guy. My personal favorites are when the little guy actually repels the initial invasion, treats the invaders humanely and lets them leave in peace in order to try and preserve diplomatic relations, and then gets obliterated by a far larger second wave because their foe simply could not tolerate the embarrassment of their glorious Empire losing to the natives. I'm not calling bullshit on you or anything but I am down to read about a few instances in recorded history where indigenous people actually prevailed over imperialist powers.
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Jan 1, 2016 17:50
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gently caress hezbollah but do you have any other sources for that other than that picture you posted?
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Jan 7, 2016 17:00
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Kim Jong Il posted:Hezbollah's body count dwarfs Israel's. I'm not defending Hezbollah but I think that doesn't really stand up to scrutiny. If only by dint of the fact Israel, since it's founding as an actual country, has been around for a lot longer and has been an active belligerent to pretty much every single country surrounding it. When was the last time Hezbollah shot a civilian airliner out of the sky? Or kidnapped civilians for bargaining chips to ransom kidnapped soldiers back?
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Jan 8, 2016 17:04
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Ddraig posted:I agree that a stabbing is a terrible thing that is completely unconscionable. It's also fairly common.We have about 130,000 stabbings per year in the UK, yet none of them are met with the full force of our military might by driving tanks through the ghetto, much as certain sections of society would love to see that. Because they know they can get away with killing a few uppity arabs here and there without any groups with real power censuring them.
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Jan 10, 2016 21:18
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You haven't really contributed anything to this discussion other than reminding people, far more succinctly but less ably than some other posters, that yes in fact not everything the palestinians do w/r/t confronting israeli oppression is blameless.
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Jan 10, 2016 22:00
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Kim Jong Il posted:By this logic, Hamas's attacks radicalizing Israelis justifies the hilltop youth. Israel has been radicalizing sectors of it's populace WAY before hamas was even thought of. But you want to bring up hilltop youth, ok so let's discuss pricetag attacks. Or how about how international allies who arrive in the west bank to demonstrate nonviolently are assaulted while soldiers watch and do nothing. edit: hilltop youth would be a cool band name
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Jan 15, 2016 17:24
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Kim Jong Il posted:If you actually read it, it's a documentary about how all the living heads of Shin Bet want peace and radically disagree with current policy, which is also verified by hundreds of thousands of links if you do a basic Google search. Ben-Gurion had basically the same revelation when his own political career was over and he no longer had any pull in the israeli government. The important distinction to be made here is how relevant are these men in the world of the israeli security services, who actually heeds their advice or listens to their input? Also, concerning two-state vs. one-state I think the important question to ask yourself what is more important? Civil rights for minorities in Israel or the existence of a defanged, economically impotent Palestinian state existing side by side with The Jewish State©?
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Jan 18, 2016 04:10
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Pretty hosed up that gets glossed over in the official narrative when martin luther loving king junior advocated for israel. At the same rally I remember seeing footage of an old israeli guy with I think a tan hat(I posted his pic in the last i/p thread that's why)was screaming at a lady for the disgusting crime of having married a black man. Used really ungenerous words. I thought tel aviv was supposed to be this huge bastion of startup culture/liberalism not some barely contained cesspool like every major american city is but then again I've never left the contiguous united states and I've never heard of street/sidewalk making GBS threads being tolerated anywhere in israel proper so maybe it's not so bad?
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Jan 20, 2016 03:06
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Kim Jong Il posted:All of that predate Gandhi, who thought Jews should have willingly walked into the gas chambers. You're dumb.
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Jan 20, 2016 03:07
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Gandhi totally advocated a willingness to die in the name of nonviolent resistance but seriously you are a stupid loving person if you think he would have applied the same measures as say british colonial interests to that of jews resisting the nazis/mechanisms of the nazi holocaust.
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Jan 20, 2016 03:10
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http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1185616/ Good movie about the 1982 invasion of Lebanon and the Sabra-Shatilla massacre.
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Jan 25, 2016 02:08
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Lustful Man Hugs posted:
As hosed up as this is, it's definitely not breaking any new ground regarding israel's treatment of lebanese P.O.W.s or noncombatants arrested on suspicion of partisan activities/terrorism. But goddamn, 
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Jan 26, 2016 21:58
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Christ I thought Lehava was bad.
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Jan 28, 2016 00:48
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You know what I really hate the most about TIC's posts in this thread is that whenever he makes one everyone has to rush in to call him an idiot and the thread stops being about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and more about how loving wrong his stupid wrong opinion is. Just let the red text speak for itself imo. edit - this post is the smoking gun.
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Jan 28, 2016 00:59
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Alright so basically Im Tirzu and Lehava are basically fulfilling the same niche a group like The Patriotic Knights Corps from Legend of The Galactic Heroes would be doing. Israel is a hollow shell of a democracy.
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Jan 28, 2016 17:31
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Maoist Pussy posted:If you have lost but failed to surrender, then it should be no surprise when the conflict continues. Might does not equal right. Hth.
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Jan 28, 2016 18:47
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emanresu tnuocca posted:You know at a certain point when someone says "ethnic cleansing is good" we can just collectively roll our eyes and move on with the discussion, he's either a troll or a massive bigot (or both). Yeah I had a lot of faith that she'd be some force for positive change in israeli politics(lmfao)after hearing about her trying to change dumbass segregation regulations for bomb shelters and after watching that video of her tantrum in the knesset but gideon levy called it when he said she was israel's favorite know-it-all. Now she just kind of comes off as the kind of white person who would go to a civil rights demonstration back in the 60s because it's a just cause and yet have difficulty holding hands with a person of color in a march or some poo poo. Labor is no better than Likud.
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Jan 29, 2016 15:42
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Jan 29, 2016 16:37
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Maoist Pussy posted:In my personal opinion? Probably just because I like Israelis and I like that there is a functional, westernized nation in the Levant. Here we are back to discussing, instead of the conflict, someone's boorish opinion about how to end it.
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Jan 29, 2016 19:41
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Hitlers Gay Secret posted:I agree, Kuwait is a p. cool place. paging the awesome ghost to the thread
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Jan 30, 2016 00:52
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Kim Jong Il posted:This is empirically false. Every single example I gave is abusing human rights outside of its borders, and all but Syria (who is currently incapable of projecting much abroad due to civil war) are doing so at a higher volume and severity than Israel. Israel's abuses of people outside it's borders are well documented. Consider the downing of a libyan civilian airliner during i think 1973-74 during its military adventures with egypt. Or the arresting and transfer of virtually the entire male population of Sidon and surrounding palestinian refugee camps/villages during the 1982 lebanon invasion. Consider also it's brutal treatment of both lebanese civilians and palestinians under israeli custody, before and during the push into west beirut. Consider also Operation Wrath of God, although targetted killings of suspected terrorists in a country you have no right to in isn't torture and humiliation per se but certainly illegal as gently caress. Ultramega fucked around with this message at 05:04 on Jan 30, 2016 |
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Jan 30, 2016 05:01
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There were a couple really good suggestions some users listed earlier in the thread Image and Reality of the Israel-Palestine Conflict by Norman Finkelstein Fateful Triangle by Noam Chomsky The Question of Palestine by Edward Said, also Orientialism was really good at helping understand some things, like how the media is used to frame the narrative around a certain set of well-established tropes about the middle east that go unchallenged to this day. Team Overhead Smash or Main Paineframe had some really good suggestions too that I can't remember.
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Jan 30, 2016 07:01
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The Insect Court posted:Recommending Norman Finkelstein to someone who wants to obtain a basic grounding in the history of the I/P conflict is like telling someone interested in the history of Reconstruction to just watch Birth of a Nation a few times. It's difficult to believe that even a fanatic thinks it's a sensible, unbiased look at the issue.  I don't think you actually read this thread.
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Jan 31, 2016 10:35
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I just want to remind everyone they're arguing with a guy who put forth the totally uncontroversial opinion that the united states should have wiped the USSR off the map with nuclear weapons after the end of WW2. Just saying. He's probably pulling your chain, y'all (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 31, 2016 17:17
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In the realm of poo poo that actually happened and that warrants a response there were reports on Ma'an News last night about a checkpoint near Beit El that was attacked by an armed palestinian who managed to injure 3 soldiers and was killed during hostilities. Kind of a step up from a random stabbing. I'm assuming "not a lot if the israelis have anything to say about it", but I'm guessing guns are not widely available to west bank palestinians unless they're collaborators right?
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Jan 31, 2016 17:20
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Lol at this whole page honestly. I don't know what hakimashou, and similar posters get out of posting in this thread. Is it just that general SA phenomenon of people who just post because they thrive off negative attention? If you want that there's plenty to be had on facebook. Conversely what does that say about people who probably know these people are shitheels and they post anyway? Not worth it. To the point, concerning the overall general situation in israel, and the occupied territories it doesn't matter one iota what main paineframe or the insect court think about what should be done. At least the posters similar to the former (which is to say the majority), are at least consistent in their condemnation of war crimes and atrocities regardless of which state did them which I don't really think can be applied to the 2 or 3 loudmouths who post here and make this thread into a pissing contest. Ultramega fucked around with this message at 17:27 on Jan 31, 2016 |
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Jan 31, 2016 17:24
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I really like the usage of the term squatters to refer to settlers. Way more accurate than 'settlers'.
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Jan 31, 2016 17:31
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It's not really that weird to expect a nation that voluntarily signed the UN charter to actually uphold some or all of those tenets and apply them equally to all of it's citizens(that includes bedouin in the negev who are israeli citizens but are restricted to similar land usage/zoning laws that apply to palestinians in the west bank for example). The population of the west bank aren't entitled to be treated as full citizens, nor would they probably even be accepted if one were to attempt the process, yet leaving all the civic distinctions aside they still deserve to be treated far better than they are now.
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Feb 9, 2016 03:00
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Good looking out, dude. Appreciate the insight.
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Feb 9, 2016 18:39
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You can't be serious. How do people like that even get into politics.
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Feb 11, 2016 00:31
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Kim Jong Il posted:
Yeah, about as unfair as the U.S. freezing humanitarian aid to afghanistan as a means of collective punishment for harboring bin laden.
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Mar 25, 2016 19:39
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Irony Be My Shield posted:I guess collective punishment is only acceptable when it causes massive numbers of civilian deaths and the permanent destruction of critical humanitarian infrastructure. c.f. the al-shifa chemical plant bombing in sudan. In all honesty, was that question about whether sanctions against iraq rhetorical? Because uh. quick edit: i had multiple friends serve in iraq/afghanistan and I got to hear them drunkenly describe daily life as an occupying force. Events like, pointing a gun at a crowd of kids asking in broken english for water and candy. Shooting in the air to disperse (usually) nonviolent demonstrations. Insulting locals by learning one or two insults in arabic and repeating them. So just for the sake of returning to the topic at hand, if the U.S. occupies a country in that manner I'm going to assume the israeli occupation is equal to or greater in the amount of respect and sensitivity shown to the native populace. Ultramega fucked around with this message at 12:25 on Mar 26, 2016 |
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Mar 26, 2016 12:22
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That's cool they hate antisemitism but isn't that kind of like expecting an attaboy for heroically denouncing child sex traffickers in public?
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Mar 27, 2016 07:15
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http://www.btselem.org/statistics/fatalities/after-cast-lead/by-date-of-event
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Mar 27, 2016 11:45
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The Insect Court posted:You'd think so but there are still plenty of "anti-Zionists" caterwauling about the whole thing despite the final policy did not equate anti-semitism and anti-Zionism, there really are people who will oppose initiatives to combat anti-semitism.. I'm not calling bullshit on you, per se but would you cite some examples of that?
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Mar 27, 2016 14:40
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