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For anyone interested: Lead Army vessel for the JLOTS Gaza pier is north of Algeria.  Lopez turned off AIS on April 4 (so just after I looked last) they’re probably off North Africa (my estimate). Bobo has completed loading based on AIS and my estimate of an eta for them is 18 to 20 days. Doesn’t look like anything has turned around. Any one that wants to follow it themselves just search the vessels on marine traffic. I’m thinking the Lopez will switch AIS back on one it’s in the Med.
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Apr 11, 2024 02:08
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Haystack posted:Have they made *any* money from piracy? Or have they been charging tolls or something. They eventually get paid by vessel owners insurers or vessel owners. It can take a long while.
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Apr 12, 2024 14:39
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Marenghi posted:I think you'll find it was flying a Portuguese flag, which is the only value that matters in determining ownership. The charter party is the one that really matters it’s MSC which is Swiss headquartered. They’ve notably never hit a ZIM chartered vessel.
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Apr 13, 2024 19:16
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punishedkissinger posted:Seems like the ships is owned by an Israeli billionaire. The owner doesn’t operate or control what the vessel does. The charter, MSC does. It’s an MSC vessel. The steamship line is the party with the power in the relationship. I’m just saying they’ve yet to do anything to the vessels with the Zionist symbols giant and painted in white on the sides. The Red Sea is about Saudi. Its pressure to keep them from normalizing with the Israelis.
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Apr 13, 2024 21:04
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Israel will over respond because that’s what they do. Edit: The JLOTS army boats are still en route, the James Loux is east of Malta now. Bar Ran Dun fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Apr 14, 2024 |
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Apr 14, 2024 16:30
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IAmThatIs posted:That assumes the pier is ever built, instead of being a naked ploy by Biden to appear to be doing something that'll be forgotten about one way or the other come November. Generally they don’t make little army boats cross an ocean for a ”ploy”. James Loux stopped in Crete about 10:00 local time. They haven’t stopped since departing so this is likely fuel and provisions. 
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Apr 16, 2024 16:16
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punishedkissinger posted:army boats cross the ocean all the time for pure political theater thats a lot of the reason you build little army boats Power projection is much more the navy’s job. They send the Navy for that. Vessel in question:   This vessel is really only for the thing they are asserting they’re going to use it for. Edit: it’s built like an empty bath tub with a ramp on each end. Bar Ran Dun fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Apr 16, 2024 |
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Apr 16, 2024 19:29
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Lopez is north of Tunisia Bobo is back to blount island  Looks like they went out and then turned around.
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Apr 16, 2024 19:52
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:Sadly Israel isn't a rational country so they will probably gently caress this up, and then Iran will probably decide to actually hurt them. Israel doesn’t do proportional response. They have always responded disproportionality. It’s a known long established thing that’s what they do. There are probably absolutely insane things being discussed on the Israeli side internally. If they don’t take it as “win”, they’ll do very very stupid things. Iran has clearly demonstrated they definitely really can hurt them. It’s an extremely dangerous situation.
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Apr 17, 2024 18:51
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PostNouveau posted:They have bombed the Rafah crossing many times. They allowed the Kerem Shalom crossing to open and then a week later murdered the Palestinian head of aid distribution. The U.S. has emphasized there won't be American boots on the ground in Gaza. The aid workers who distribute this aid will be at risk of Israeli attack, or they might open fire at civilians at a distribution point, as Israel did in late February. There won’t be military boots on the ground. There will almost certainly be military contractors that go ashore. I think the WCK killings were a clear they intend to gently caress with the aid distribution. If they gently caress with it once it’s installed (and I mean seriously gently caress with it to prevent food aid) then I think they intend to kill nearly everybody in Gaza, or atleast everybody male of military age (I already think that fwiw). There is a second major potential function for a pier like this and these types of army landing vessels, as an evacuation point. But that’s not possible unless they have a place to go and they don’t. I think there should be pressure about that starting now and I don’t see it any where, or even contemplated anywhere.
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Apr 17, 2024 23:10
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theCalamity posted:What’s the update on the pier? Gimme a minute I’ll check ais
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Apr 20, 2024 21:12
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Both of the PREPOs are drifting near Souda Bay. Army vessels still alongside in Souda Bay  So all the ships are nearby now. My opinion is that if they aren’t moving by mid next week like Wednesday, that’s it’s time to ask the administration if they still intend move forward to install it and to call them cowards if the answer is no.
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Apr 20, 2024 21:22
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theCalamity posted:Where are they at now? Lopez looks to still be drifting. ROY P.BENAVIDEZ looks to have turned off its AIS on Monday. Destination was changed to “NIRVANA”. This one has a bunch of the pontoons. To know what is going on with it one would need satellite images, or to see it/ show it on radar on another vessel in the area. States know and the AIS companies know because they have satellites. Folks nearby listening to radio communications probably know. There’s too many vessels in the Med to keep it a real secret. Army boats are still moored. Stars and Stripes is reporting in line with what I see here: https://www.stripes.com/theaters/us/2024-04-23/gaza-temporary-pier-israel-war-famine-pentagon-13637141.html ““All the necessary vessels are within the Mediterranean region and standing by … to begin construction when we’re given the order to do that,” he said. “There is a process and procedure that will have to be followed … and our planners have worked through the details of all the things one would expect [but] we’re on track at this point to implement that operational capability” in the coming weeks.” So what does that mean… The Benavidez is probably headed out to start on the off shore floating pier. I think they need the army vessels to do the causeway pier and jetty. This probably has the clearest drawing of how it all is supposed to work I’ve seen in the news. https://www.barrons.com/news/jlots-the-us-army-s-temporary-port-system-59ef2619
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Apr 24, 2024 16:45
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BRJurgis posted:Bar ran dun have you enacted your moral man vs society conversation yet? Because I'm at the point I welcome the bill coming due. Critical disruption would be better than the shared religion of delusion we practice as beneficiaries of this. I’ve been too busy with work. I’ve switched my focus to the children of light and children of darkness, and will refer back to Moral Man. If I ever catch a loving break.
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Apr 25, 2024 02:46
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mawarannahr posted:A minor pier update posted 5 hours ago, I know many are eager to hear about the pier This came out today too. DoD officially saying they began construction. https://www.defense.gov/News/News-S...an-aid-to-gaza/ It’s modular and they drill putting it together so expect things to go fairly quickly.
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Apr 26, 2024 03:25
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If it were willingly they’d just open the border crossings. Once they get done the thing to watch will be the flow rate of aid in. Depending on what types of vessels they bring along side the off shore pier, if AIS is on, I might be able to guesstimate tonnages from vessel deadweights. Lotta ifs there though, we will see I guess. There should be more news now, and people will be able to watch from the shore.
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Apr 26, 2024 03:40
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mawarannahr posted:I wonder what these specific steps are and why the Biden administration is confident Israel will take them. One of them is likely what you posted yesterday. Cooperation with food aid entry via the pier.
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Apr 27, 2024 00:17
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https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...ce=articleShare Times has an article up about the pier.
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Apr 27, 2024 20:46
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Giggs posted:It really makes it clear how performative this action is. Disgusting and infuriating. “The pier will initially enable the transfer of about 90 truckloads of aid per day, the official said, and will eventually ramp up to 150 truckloads per day at full capacity.” 150 truck loads is going to be a approximately 300 Metric Tons of food aid a day, perpetually. That’s about 661,386 pounds a day. A western diet is usually 3-5 pounds of prepared food day. Food aid is going to be more efficient weight wise than that. It’s enough to feed everybody once they get it going. That’s the opposite of performative. It’s also very fast as a logistical feat. They should have started on it sooner. January or February instead of March.
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Apr 28, 2024 01:27
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HazCat posted:It's still too little too late if Israel even lets it in at all, and the US has the ability to pressure Israel to let more aid in right now, you absolute ignoramus. I want you to think about this part right here. We very obviously don’t. This is an insanely complicated, dangerous, and expensive thing to do. If we have that influence we don’t make this choice.
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Apr 28, 2024 02:44
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Gripweed posted:What are you talking about? Israel gets billions of dollars in military aid from America, we can just yank the leash whenever we want. Or it’s rather more complicated and not simplistic. Think about something like optics. They make optics used in Abrams, Strykers, anti missile and anti drone systems, etc. There are types of reactive armor, parts of night vision systems, parts of missiles, etc. They’re way up our military supply chains’ asses for a pretty large number of components on a large number of systems. It should not have been allowed. It means this all is connected to other issues like Ukraine (and even Taiwan). Isreal knows it. It’s possible all that is going to begin to untangle, but that’ll take decades.
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Apr 28, 2024 03:12
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moths posted:A pier also lets America scapegoat Ansar Allah for Israel's starvation campaign. Lmao. Where are the Houthi’s? Where is this pier? Have ya checked a map? HazCat posted:The US is actively, willfully, complicit the genocide of Gaza. The pier is not going to change anything. Many decades of allowing them to integrate into our military supply chains allowed this. This is the consequence of decades of choices. It is our fault. But it’s also not active or willing. There’s a relatively straightforward test, for positions of this discussion. Gaza is going to get fed or not. We should know the outcome in the next month or so as things either get going or don’t.
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Apr 28, 2024 03:26
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Gripweed posted:So in response to the threat of loss of foreign aid, Israel would respond by curtailing it's own international trade? That doesn't seem like a sensible move for Israel, they'd need to start scraping together all the pennies they could if they suddenly had pay for their Iron Dome themselves. This whole thing is incredibly stupid for Israel. This is in the interests of an authoritarian and the authoritarian religious political movements inside Isreal, it’s all disastrous for Isreal externally as a state.
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Apr 28, 2024 03:37
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HazCat posted:the US is giving full control over the pier to Israel, You should re-read the times article.
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Apr 28, 2024 03:47
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HazCat posted:It's a stalling tactic to relieve pressure on the US to act to force Israel to stop committing genocide. They could have stalled with words. That’s a lot cheaper and far less risky than doing this.
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Apr 28, 2024 04:09
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HazCat posted:If the US cannot pressure Israel to let aid in by land, how will they pressure Israel to let in aid by pier? A pier on which US soldiers are physically present on, that is US military equipment is not the same as the ground border crossing from Egypt or the Israel/Gaza crossing There’s nothing to dodge. They’re very different things both materially and legally. The extraordinary claim is that they are equivalent.
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Apr 28, 2024 04:41
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Best Friends posted:How does aid go from US personnel to a needy Palestinian via this pier without any intermediation from Israel? There needs to be some security at the point of aid distribution, especially when there’s American personnel involved. The only security force in Gaza the United States considers legitimate is Israel. UN WFP is going to organize it. Pier to UN warehouses in Gaza. Warehouses to distribution points. “The World Food Program will help distribute aid inside Gaza after it arrives at the pier, the U.S. Agency for International Development said last week. Trucks coordinated by aid groups will transport aid from a secure area near the pier to U.N. warehouses, of which there are more than 20 across Gaza, and then eventually to hundreds of community kitchens, shelters, smaller warehouses and other distribution points throughout the region.” It’s in the article.
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Apr 28, 2024 04:58
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Rappaport posted:As you state in another post, everything Israel is doing is pretty dang stupid and bad for them as a state, so it seems especially stupid of the US to be an unwilling and "inactive" (sorry if that's bad paraphrasing) participant in this mess of crimes against humanity. Over a long period of time we allowed ourselves to become interconnected to their economy in ways that aren’t easy to just shut off like a switch particularly for the military. It’s analogous to the Germans allowing their chemical production and energy sectors to become so dependent on Russian gas. The dominant ideology thought that capitalism was magic, basically. That was intensely stupid and was widely encouraged internationally. It also roughly correlated with the expansion of international horizontal JIT supply chains. We created a situation where they could commit genocide and what we could do about it was limited because of interconnection. The US also contributed to creating a political environment in the Middle East where the Sunni nations would tolerate it. Yes it was especially stupid.
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Apr 28, 2024 17:28
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fool of sound posted:Israel’s trade with the US represents 0.8% of total US trade. The US is a quarter of Israel’s. The US holds all the economic cards in that relationship. Which things those 0.8% are matters FOS, if something like the night vision optics for the military is in that side. Economics brain gets us into these situations by thinking like this.
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Apr 28, 2024 17:54
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OctaMurk posted:What are the things that Israel's exporting to the US that the US couldn't get elsewhere, which make this 0.8% so important? Does America and none of the rest of NATO make night vision optics? They make the good ones. It’s also parts for missile and drone interception systems. One can search online to find Israeli right wing taking about the specific things online(also stupid). Air defense and EWS are the other big area. The crazy thing is our own defense industry gets bitchy about having to compete with Isreali companies we have been subsidizing for these high end things. It’s all so stupid.
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Apr 28, 2024 18:11
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fool of sound posted:I'm absolutely certain that the US can find an alternate source of imports for the extremely short time period before Israel capitulates because US sanctions would devastate their economy instantly. You should consider how the supply chain crisis played out. That was a short period of not being able to get relatively easy to manufacture poo poo. Where international components were hard to get with limited manufacturers , like electronic displays for automobiles it was disruptive for many years of production. And the Israelis are willing to genocide. This isn’t something one should be certain about at all.
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Apr 28, 2024 19:52
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not a value-add posted:Bar Ran Dun where did you see Israeli air defense components? Everything I’ve ever worked with is Raytheon. Given the sensitivity of those systems as you move into higher tiers and what happened to things like the Harop it seems stupid to allow foreign production of any parts, especially electronic components. I’m trying to google it and can’t find anything. Things like arrow 3 that they just sold the Germans are cooperative ventures is my understanding. I know they need our approval to sell them. I know they do upgrades to the F-16 and F-15. I think there are specific high end avionics that make. IAI has a whole US subsidiary, if I wanted to know more details that’s where I’d start looking.
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Apr 28, 2024 23:18
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It’s happening in Cyprus, that’s very different than it happening right at a border crossing.
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Apr 29, 2024 06:03
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Think about trucks in a line at a border crossing. Each one getting opened only by Israelis. The line has to wait on each inspection one after the other. If they get rejected it’s a big deal, all the way back to where they came. Now think about a Ro-Ro terminal in Cyprus. Trailers are dropped off, parked in a bigass parking lot. Ship sails in a few days. Cyprus is inspecting Israel is observing. There are multiple nations present. There isn’t a delay to loading. This happens well before the cargo operations start. CFS is right there. Trailers can be stripped reloaded, cargo handling is all easy. The inspection being used to delay is neutered.
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Apr 29, 2024 06:18
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:No it isn't. Not if the same people get to do the checks. The same policies can be assumed to be in place. And therefore the same bullshit delay/denial tactics can be assumed. I did high consequence hazardous material cargo inspections for about 15 years. I often participated in multi agency cargo inspections MASFO events with CBP and USCG, etc. It’s quite different. Not being right at the border crossing and happening in Cyprus in a RORO terminal is a very very different thing.
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Apr 29, 2024 06:32
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:If Israel has the final say over the inspections then it does not matter what the circumstance are or who else is there. It isn't magic, there are no other actual circumstances impeding delivery from any other point into Gaza. It is all entirely down to the will of the Israeli government. It is all bullshit. No it isn’t magic. They could take twice or even quadruple the time inspecting every load in a Cyprus terminal, and it would not be a meaningful delay the logistics in the manner that it is at a border crossing. Because the logistics are fundamentally different. Cargo is going to sit waiting in the terminal before loading on a ship in the terminal. That’s when inspections will happen. If they want to waste time they’re wasting their time not impeding the cargo movement. At a border the inspection actively impedes the crossing. It happens while the goods are in transit, not at a terminal interchange while the goods aren’t in movement. And Cyprus is inspecting, Israel is watching. Lovely Joe Stalin posted:Starvation is a weapon of the ongoing genocide, perhaps the primary weapon in the longer term plan, given that it will kill exponentially more people than any munitions once it is in full effect. Agreed. Lovely Joe Stalin posted:It does not matter from whence the aid comes, or where it is inspected. If Israel have control over it then it will not move in meaningful volume or with worthwhile alacrity, and if you cannot understand why that is then I don't know what to say to you. It’s good that folks who do care about and realize the details matter a great deal, that lives are at stake on the details, are the ones acting.
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Apr 29, 2024 07:12
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theCalamity posted:Is there anything preventing Israel from inspecting the aid again once it reaches the pier or put onto trucks? They won’t be able to on the pier. Like physically won’t be able to. Ashore they could but they’d have to break the kayfabe. Counties get to inspect goods crossing their borders. CBP can just go open /random cans at the container terminal or direct them to a bonded CFS. That all would be done though. Their entry requirements would have been met in Cyprus. It’s much more likely to me that they target trucks from UN WFP “accidentally” like they did with WCK. But that’s much riskier for them now then it was.
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Apr 29, 2024 07:40
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Rebel Blob posted:It isn't a matter of logistical capacity for inspections, like you've misrepresented. It’s that the logistics are fundamentally different. At a marine terminal goods have to wait for the ship. The ship is going to load and then sail at a particular date and time. They can be inspected in that window without creating unnecessary delays. If deficiencies are noted they can be rectified in that window, reinspected, and still make the ship. That’s a very different situation from being inspected at a land border crossing. And when I say bigass parking lot, that means 50,000 to 100,000 spots. Back when I was doing hazardous materials inspections I could hit 20-30 cans in an hour. Just me with a pair of bolt cutters. And that’s having to find the fuckers driving around in a terminal lot. Somebody like me with my type of background is going to be there in Cyprus. That isn’t going to be what the Israelis are used to dealing with. They’re used to a extreme power imbalance, literally having the ability to point guns at folks. A trucker/aid worker at a border station isn’t ever going to be able to push back.
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Apr 29, 2024 17:28
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Gripweed posted:But what if Israel wants unnecessary delays? What if they don’t want the cargo to make the ship? Do you see how much of an enormous pain in the rear end I am when I think that I am correct and the person I’m taking to is incorrect. Welcome to normal on the waterfront. Someone like me, (probably older than me) will be gently telling them to eat poo poo and hair, while taking thorough notes and photos and exactly following the written inspection guidelines and procedures. If they are intent on stopping it, I think they’ll “accidentally” kill UN World Food Program folks in Gaza. There’s a good chance that happens. If it does happen I think then things escalate even further, peacekeeper escorts for the food aid.
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Apr 29, 2024 18:21
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Charliegrs posted:Dumb question but is it even possible to adequately feed 2 million people when the only way the food can enter an area is through a pier? Yes that’s exactly how one would do that. When the big earthquake hits Seattle / Tacoma this is how they’ll keep everybody from dying. They drill JLOTS every couple of years up here to practice what they’d need to do to keep about a million people fed/ get necessary aid and response folks in. punishedkissinger posted:For all the effort posts no one has really been able to explain why the pier will work better than ground routes. The Israelis have total real control over the ground entry routes. Vs. They’re being allowed to be involved with the pier to save face. If they want to stop it they have to use force to stop it. I think their next step will be kill WFP Aid workers once it’s going. The WCK “accident” was them communicating they would go that far in response to the pier announcement. Bluff or not it needs called. Edit: yes there are faster ways, but those ways involve Americans physically entering Gaza, like an invasion, a real loving beach landing. That’s a very very bad idea. That to the Israelis would be the US invading Israel. Bar Ran Dun fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Apr 29, 2024 |
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Apr 29, 2024 18:38
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