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Put me down for HMS Warspite as my lucky ship, please! Looking forward to once again having one of your amazing grognard threads to check during lunch every day.
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Dec 8, 2015 20:24
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Stringbags aren't scary when fighter cover exists in any form. Moving up some Zeroes, Oscars, or even Nates to cover unloading fleets would shut that problem down very quickly. From a logistics standpoint, the Allies have a very limited number of replacements for those airframes (swordfish, especially), and I don't recall them having an upgrade path either. Once you shoot a few dozen down, they're as good as gone for good. Then your fleets anywhere that US carriers aren't become pretty safe for a while, unless the Allied AI knows how to abuse low-altitude naval bombing with two-engine bombers.
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Dec 20, 2015 00:14
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CeeJee posted:Sunderland (or PBY) related: I don't remember ever seeing any screenshots of subs being attacked by planes. Does this not get shown or is it not in the game ? It does get shown in game, but only on the game map for a second or two while the turn is running, so it's difficult to get a screenshot of it. The screenshots we see in this thread are either from times the game is paused to display a full combat report or during combat types that stay on screen for a while while they resolve. Air vs. sub attacks basically consist of a line of text saying "some plane is attacking some sub in this hex" and possibly "the sub is HIT". Unless they changed in a patch since I last played, it doesn't even give any indication of fires or damage like air strikes against surface ships.
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Jan 10, 2016 22:38
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I think exploring the "Set TF Routing" options might help your pixelmen be a little more predictable. There are a couple of toggles there that determine what route a task force will take. It defaults to "normal" which means the AI tries to route around enemy-held areas, but contested areas (like the Philippines here) can confuse it. Unless I'm dealing with convoys in rear-areas, I almost always set pathing to "direct". You can also use it to set waypoints if you want to route around an enemy area but don't trust the AI to make good decisions.
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Jan 13, 2016 19:08
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gradenko_2000 posted:Holy poo poo where do you get off being that much of a cheating dick. I think this was the same AAR where the Japanese player also gamed the air combat mechanics so hard that the game's dev team actually included a nerf/fix for whatever he did in the next patch. It wasn't patched before the Allied player lost 3/4 of his carriers over the course of about two turns, though.
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Jan 21, 2016 18:50
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A White Guy posted:Could you invade and occupy Alaska without setting off Patton's 8th army? I'm pretty sure the line for activating Patton's army only encompasses hexes south of the Canadian border (though maybe it extends north to cover Vancouver as well), so invading Alaska doesn't trigger the army of doom on you. That said, from what I recall, there's pretty much no point in doing it. The bases there aren't worth many victory points. Certainly not as many as places like India, Australia, or even New Zealand. They also don't have important facilities like drydocks, industry, oil, or refineries in any significant number. Most Japanese players stop at Dutch Harbor (if they even go that far) and relegate the Aleutians to providing a speedbump to any Allied campaign targeting the Kuriles.
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Jan 25, 2016 19:57
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Java has a fair amount of production, but probably not quite enough to supply the number of ground and air units you'd need to hold it against a determined attack. The good news is Palembang is nearby and makes enough supply for everyone because how the game abstracts supply production from refining oil. The trickier part about holding the DEI is the lack of replacements the Dutch get. Replacements are determined by nationality, and as far as I know, there's no way to transfer devices (ground units, airframes, etc) from one to another. The Dutch air force completely stops receiving replacements by something early like March '42, so there's no way to keep those squadrons flying after they run out of planes. If an Allied player wants to contest the area, they'll ship in US/Commonwealth airgroups and land units to help out, but that needs to be committed to fairly early on.
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Feb 18, 2016 10:07
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Arbite posted:Yeah I'm getting real nervous about your impending shock attack in Singapore. I'm I worrying over nothing? You're probably worried over nothing. He gained control of the hex side that crosses the river when that first shock attack happened. From what I recall, auto shock attacks only happen when you cross a river hex side controlled by an enemy, so those reinforcements shouldn't trigger another when they cross the river into a friendly bridgehead.
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Feb 23, 2016 21:25
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A White Guy posted:So, what's the earliest date that the Allied player can win? Auto-victory doesn't come into play until Jan 1 1943. Against an AI, it's certainly possible to do this as the Allies if you're playing on Scenario 1 (historical orders of battle) and normal difficulty (the AI doesn't get to cheat as much logistically). The AI makes enough poor tactical decisions that, by your second or third playthrough, you know how to set traps for it. I used a fortress Java/Sumatra strategy, and the AI responded by sending the Kido Butai 1 or 2 carriers at a time into all of my own, as well as about 250 additional land based planes. Even after it lost its air cover, it didn't alter its invasion timetable which lead to a couple divisions of land units being sunk, and things just snowballed from there in Burma and China. I hit the auto-victory threshold in Feb 1943 and never lost Singapore.
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Mar 18, 2016 19:09
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The Warspite starts the game in Seattle's shipyard (I think) with about a month of work to be done on it, so it should be lurking about somewhere. The US gets a few slow battleships in 1942, plus whatever it can repair of the PH victims. It seems the AI is playing the "Sir Robin" strategy with its carriers, although the USN begins replacing its Devastators with Avengers this month, so maybe they'll feel up to a challenge soon. Surface engagements are really hard to arrange. Part of it is the vastness of the ocean, but the other part is the nonsensical UI finagling that's necessary. Like everything else in the game, there are a couple of unintuitive things you need to set in order to get a surface combat TF to actually try and intercept enemy ships. First, you need to have a reaction range set (this part makes sense, and GH has it right). Then, you need to set the TF to "retirement allowed", and instead of selecting a TF destination, you "Set TF Routing" and then set a patrol zone for just the one hex you want it to look for enemies at. When it's set as-is, the TF will make a beeline to the target hex and just sit there, but if enemy ships move even one hex away from your route, it won't "think" to go after them as the turn runs.
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Apr 15, 2016 21:06
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RZApublican posted:Unless you count that tiny island next to the base you captured, they might have forces stationed there I don't remember if there's a special rule for hexes separated by sea, but I believe the standard rule is if you have a land unit in a hex, you know whether there are enemy land units in all adjacent hexes. Koesj posted:Nahh that's a base control flag. IIRC without any forces on it it'll automatically switch over after a while. This is correct. You need to have a land unit stationed in a friendly base 1 or 2 hexes away to flip an unoccupied enemy base, and there's some kind of dice roll involved to determine whether it actually happens (so it might take a week or so). That said, loading a land unit to mop up a single undefended base is  , so it's a nice addition.
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Apr 19, 2016 19:48
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Grumio posted:Rules And then flip over to page 284 to see the ship rearmament table. The tl;dr is to rearm torpedo sorties, you need a size 7 port without finagling. The good news is Batavia can be built up to that level if the AI didn't do it already. The bad news is if the AI didn't expand the port to 7, it'll take a while for you to do it yourself. So what can you do in the meantime? I'm not familiar with the Japanese OOB (I've only played the Allies), but if you have any AE or AKE support ships, fill one of them up with supply and have them dock at the port. Alternatively, look into your base forces and naval HQ units for "Naval Support" squads. The table says you need 160 naval support to rearm torpedo sorties, but it also says each naval support squad provides 5 "points" of that, so 32 squads. Why couldn't they just divide everything by 5?  There were some questions about where those feared Betties have been. Arming air groups with torpedoes is its own small mess which is one of the reasons I like playing the Allies: their land-based anti shipping planes primarily use bombs. Basically, you need to find a base force or air HQ unit that has the "Torpedo Ordinance" device and stick it in the same hex as your bomber group. For the cases of air HQs, you can have it as far away as its command radius, but that's still usually 5 hexes or less. Also, I think you manually have to tell that unit to magically transmute supply into torpedoes every time it runs low/out. bunnyofdoom posted:I know it's been said but good lord that's obtuse grognardy and extreme analysis retentive This game's rules make the current edition of D&D's feel sensible and well-organized by comparison 
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Apr 30, 2016 19:13
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Goetta posted:How much can the Chungking hex supply itself? Could you cut it off and then just sit there for a few months? Chungking has (I think) the highest amount of industry in China with 370 points of heavy industry, 180 points of light industry, and 180 resources. The good news is, according to the game manual, resource centers don't produce anything when there's an enemy unit in the hex, so it's possible to starve the local industry into producing nothing. The bad news is that resources can be brought in from elsewhere, so Grey would need to block the other hex sides. Three of Chungking's hex sides are rivers, so entering via those would force a shock attack (and not go well). You can also block those sides by sitting units (or unit fragments) in the adjacent hexes, but the garrison could easily send a unit or two out to dislodge them. I kinda doubt the AI's savvy enough at land combat to do that, so maybe give it a try? As for burning through the supply they have stockpiled there already, I have no idea. The game manual doesn't say much about how many supplies land units consume through various actions (or even inaction, like just sitting there). Chengtu's another huge industry center and only about a month's march away. I wonder what's defending it. Chungking's a light urban hex, so defenders get a 2x bonus there. Grey could probably afford to pull about 1000 AV out of there to go take a look. Taking that and Rangoon (to cut off the 500 supply/day the Burma Road deposits in China) would probably make everything in China outside of Chungking start to collapse.
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May 21, 2016 20:20
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Whoa, the Chinese only about 100 adjusted AV from pulling off 2:1 combat odds in Chungking there after yesterday's slaughter. Grey's forces might actually get dislodged! Strategically, not the worst thing that can happen if it convinces him to let that doomstack recover and look elsewhere. Knock out China's other industry centers, cut off supply from Chungking, and try again in 6 months. Got any troops advancing in northeast China? I think there are a few oil/refining centers up there that would be nice to have.
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May 27, 2016 18:50
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Jobbo_Fett posted:I think its nice of Grey to show the thread why you should have more than 1 direct escort for large invasion fleets. Believe it or not, this is more or less the right way to play. Ships in a TF move as fast as their slowest member, and someone found that this carries over to combat in the game engine. This would mean your 34 knot destroyers only make 10 knots, even when trying to fend off enemy ships trying to pick off your slow transports. From what I understand, the smart move is to only throw a handful of DDs in transport TFs just to ward off submarines who would otherwise attack on the surface, and then you'd have your actual escorts in a separate surface combat TF set to follow the transports at a range of 0 hexes. In an ideal world, they'd swoop in to screen the transports from enemies at full effectiveness, so I have no idea what actually went wrong here, whether it was some other quirk of the interface, lack of radar, or just a poor roll of the dice.
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Jun 1, 2016 21:57
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I seem to recall that in-game Japanese ASW actually gets pretty strong later in the war because a ship's ASW capability is based simply on its "anti-submarine" rating. Someone found out that this rating is based simply on the number of ASW weapon mounts a ship has. Doesn't matter if they were the crappy depth charges Japan used or more advanced systems like Hedgehogs, they all count for the same. Some later Japanese DD/E models get a ton of crappy ASW mounts, so they actually become ahistorically effective at their jobs. Did the devs ever change this?
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Jul 2, 2016 19:35
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Peanut3141 posted:Grey is closing in on the 2x score threshold. Is that going to unlock an auto-victory when he gets there? The 2x auto-victory threshold is for 1945 (it's 3x in '44, 4x in '43, and not available in '42), so he'll need to hold onto his lead until then. In order to get 4x the Allies' score, you'd need to add nearly the entirety of Australia or India to the Co-Prosperity Sphere while inflicting quite a bit more damage than you take in shipping, planes, and troops.
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Jul 20, 2016 07:54
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goatface posted:A point is what, about a squad? It depends. The point value of destroyed land unit devices depends on its nationality. 12 destroyed Filipino or Chinese squads = 1 point, 6 destroyed Soviet or Japanese squads = 1 point, and everyone else is 3 destroyed squads = 1 point.
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Oct 19, 2016 22:07
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If the US carriers are refitting, they've gotta be in a repair shipyard. In the South Pacific, the only ones available are Brisbane and Sydney, only the latter of which can handle a Yorktown class ship, if memory serves. My bet would be that they're at Pearl or Columbo. If Lexington class carriers have slightly different refit timing, it'd be awesome if you end up drawing just the two of them out 
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Oct 20, 2016 22:42
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Dreamsicle posted:Uh, will setting the TF to Bombardment instead of Surface Combat negatively affect combat performance? For all the things this game models, I'm pretty sure that the difference in shell types isn't one of them. The main differences between a bombardment and surface combat mission is how the task force moves. Under bombardment, it moves in such a way that the bombardment will occur at night, and if set to mission speed, they'll steam at cruise speed until they get close enough that a full speed movement will get them to the target during the night movement phase. Basically, the idea is that they want to use the cover of night to avoid air attacks until after they've cratered the airfield at their target. Surface combat, on the other hand, occasionally reacts to enemy surface TFs and tries to intercept them (if given a reaction range and not set to "remain on station"). Either way, if they encounter an enemy surface force, they'll fight it out just the same.
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Nov 19, 2016 08:24
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I saw an AAR once upon a time where the players agreed on some interesting house rule victory conditions that I don't entirely remember, but the gist of it was that the Allied player would have to maintain lines of communication to The Philippines. In exchange, Japan's player couldn't attack any US territory, so no Pearl Harbor attacks. If they did, the game would play out as normal. The idea was that with no surprise bloodshed on US soil, public opinion would consider it more of a limited colonial war, and leadership would have much more difficulty selling a goal of unconditional surrender than they did in our timeline. Of course, those assumptions ignored everything going on in Europe, but hey, that's a different game
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Nov 23, 2016 07:31
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 China gets 350 replacement squads a month, iirc (patches have tinkered with this, so it may be different since I've last played). Destroyed Chinese units get 1/3 of their TOE replaced for free when they respawn without drawing anything from this replacement pool. Chungking isn't the only source of supplies in China, although it's among the biggest that China controls at the start of the game. Having units in the city doesn't prevent industry from converting resource points to supply points, but it does prevent that city from creating resource points. If all of the hex sides leading into the city are controlled by Japan, it then wouldn't be able to feed its industry. Of course, this assumes the info in the game manual is accurate, which is sometimes not the case, because why document such a complex system?But yeah, I'd second driving one of those other doomstacks at Chengtu and/or Kunming. Those have pretty big concentrations of industry as well.
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Dec 11, 2016 01:20
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RZApublican posted:Does taking Nanning cut off Kunming from the rest of China? Because if so I'd say that Grey only really has Chengtu left to worry about. Probably not. First, there are at least two road connections from Kunming to Chengtu. Secondly, supplies don't necessarily need to move across roads/rails to reach units that need them, though roads/rails increase the throughput and reduce how much supply is wasted along the way. Furthermore, there's only a limited concept of zones of control in this game, so supply can sneak its way around the doomstacks into places you probably wouldn't expect it to be able to. In my experience, the only reliable way to completely cut off supply movement is to control all six sides leading into the hex you want to isolate.
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Dec 11, 2016 04:34
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Bozart posted:Just a reminder of the approximate number of carriers coming from the US over the next few years... (from http://www.combinedfleet.com/economic.htm not WITP, but it should be somewhere in the neighborhood of right?) "Only" about half of these make it to the Pacific. Remember, a lot of those CVEs were needed for ASW duty in the Atlantic. In-game, the Allies get about 80 or so CVEs over the course of the game. I always saw them as more of a liability than an asset. Their B-list fighters only offer token resistance against any escorted raid in mid-'43 onward, and their Avenger squadrons are small enough at 9 planes a piece that they represent little more than a mobile ASW platform. Knowing the AI, the number of CVEs the Allies launch might actually be good for Grey. They'll send them at his most heavily-defended bases 1 or 2 at a time and give him a free 80ish points per ship.
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Dec 24, 2016 22:50
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Wow, Kunming might break within the next few days if things keep going the way they are. That's a pretty significant chunk of China's remaining industry. Chengtu and Sian are probably the next closest industry centers, unless Grey's advancing unopposed in the north and hasn't been showing us. I wonder what's defending these, since Kunming had little more than a speedbump. If you aren't doing it already, you might be interested to know that it's actually possible to sail supply ships straight to Hankow if you control the hex (or the neighboring Wenchow if you don't). That might help your supply problems there. During my allied playthroughs, the siege would often last a while because the Japanese would do that while surrounded... until China's B-25 pilots learned to skip bomb
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Jan 29, 2017 20:44
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Noumea's definitely gonna need some bombardment support to be winnable. Crater the airfield with a BB bombardment then annoy the garrison by throwing bombers at them every day. And maybe turn Koumac into an airbase and park some Betties there so they can't resupply.
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Feb 4, 2017 21:16
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TildeATH posted:You can run night missions in and out at night--you know when it's dark--and if your first missions knock out the airfield it helps. This. Also, recall that it took a few days of sustained bombing for those planes to actually take the Fuso down since none of them appear to be equipped with torpedoes. I'm actually a little surprised to see Noumea listed as still having planes present. In my experience, the AI often freaks out and evacuates every air group it can from a threatened base. Of course, knowing Grey, he'd throw some slow-rear end training cruiser into the TF that would prevent them from reaching the target before the planes can sortie RZApublican posted:Would the Japanese get a bonus for this? Engagements during the night was something that their navy was specifically trained for. Granted, that was for naval battles and not shore bombardments, but it should still apply. Ship crews have separate experience listed for day and night. I've never gone grognard enough to look into how Allies vs. Japanese ships compare in this regard at various points in the war to know whether there's actually a bonus (and the degree thereof), but it's definitely a thing the game can model.
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Feb 4, 2017 23:13
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Kibayasu posted:So when do you get to kamikaze? Seems like that'd be a better use for Japanese planes than actually trying to shoot. Based on somewhat distant memory, I think the requirements are that it has to be 1944, and the Allies have to hold a base within 15 sea hexes of Saigon, Manila, or Tokyo, so not for a while yet.
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Feb 28, 2017 06:36
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Wasn't Sinyang the place where basically Greyverse-Stalingrad happened in his Allied campaign? Also, for those worrying about that force relieving Hankow, the Sinyang defenders should hold. They're in x2 defensive terrain behind level 3 forts.
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Mar 1, 2017 20:30
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It's entirely possible to get supplies there via ship. I'm pretty sure the river has tonnage limits limiting things like battleships from traversing it, but the average cargo ship has no problem. When an AI-controlled Japan is besieged in Hankow, they do exactly that. China doesn't get much to stop it, either. No shore batteries in Shanghai, no ships, very few bombers, and often not enough supply to replace any losses those bombers suffer. Shipping supply is always the best option because nobody actually knows how the overland supply transfer mechanics work
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Mar 22, 2017 09:13
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The good news is that you can toggle whether or not you want a ship to refit. The bad news is it's really easy to miss when one of your capital ships is due for refit when you're just patching up some minor damage which can really botch any otherwise well-laid plans you might have made. Refit times vary from a week or two all the way up to a several months in the case of one or two of the British carriers. That refit's kinda worth it because it boosts its aircraft capacity from 30ish to 55ish. But it's also kinda not, because you have to withdraw it from the theater only a month or two after it completes that long-rear end refit.
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Apr 25, 2017 08:27
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Grandpa chat: I think one was a medic attached to an artillery unit or something. He died a couple years before I was born, so I never got to learn much about him or what he did during the war. The other was a radio operator on a B-24 over Italy. Thankfully, he finished his training less than a year before the war's conclusion, so Germany's air defense capability was far from its peak. The most intense story that he shared was a time where they had to make an emergency landing at an airbase close enough to the front that they exited the plane with pistols drawn. He was able to go on one of those honor flights about a year before he died, and my parents ended up digging up a lot of his service records, scrapbooks, mission logs, etc. as part of that. When we were looking over the mission logs, one reminded him of another story. Apparently their navigator really liked to drink. During a transatlantic flight while rebasing (possibly a homebound flight post-war), this guy basically passed out on the plane over the middle of the ocean, so it fell to grandpa to figure out where they were before they ran out of fuel. The reminder was a log with a lot of requests to verify their location. I think he eventually found one of those navigational radio beams. He watched me play some WitP one time and commented that whoever tapped out the morse code sound effect in the game is a lot faster than he was 
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Apr 30, 2017 06:48
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One thing that might help bust New Caledonia is sending constant battleship sorties to Noumea. Shore bombardments are really good for shutting down airfields, draining supply, and disrupting the defenders. Might as well make use of the weeks it'll take to ship those troops from China...Julio Cruz posted:So, I've never played this game before and my only exposure to it is this thread - is it actually possible to win the war as Japan? My knowledge of WW2 isn't great but it seems like it'd be impossible to keep pace with the Allies in terms of ships and planes. The game usually ends in autovictory for one of the two sides. In 1943, the autovictory is triggered if you have 4x the victory points of your opponent (this is usually when a very aggressive Japan might win if they manage to capture almost all of India and/or Australia), 1944 3x, and 1945 2x. If autovictory isn't triggered by the end of 1945, I think the scenario ends in April 1946. The scale of your victory at that point is determined by how many points you have compared to your opponent. The levels are decisive, major, and minor. If the Allies feel the need to use more than two nukes, their victory level automatically gets bumped down. As for production, more Allied ships just mean more targets . Japan can also keep remarkably good pace in aircraft production, and if really well planned out, they can even bring advanced airframes online sooner than the Allies.
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May 17, 2017 20:58
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This has me curious. How is the rest of China looking? Notably, the north - there are a few bases with oil/refinery production points up there (Lanchow in particular) that you'd do well to pick up if you haven't already. Also, do you have enough spare AV on hand to send to Chengtu to see how well defended it actually is? Removing its production would be a huge win. Finally, most of those remote bases up in the desert are also worth a fair number of victory points if you build them up. If you want to feel a bit better about those bombers, you might check the Aircraft Losses screen and sort by operational losses. I would expect at least some of those damaged planes get written off. The allies only get 33 replacement B-24D1s/month, so if they're losing more than 1/day, you're still outpacing production.
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May 20, 2017 07:14
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goatface posted:Does the game distinguish between nightfighters and regular fighters? As you would expect from a game this grognardy, it does! The USA gets a handful of squadrons flying planes like the P-61 Black Widow, P-70 Havoc, and night fighter variants of the Hellcat, Corsair, and Tigercat. The Brits have Fireflys, Beaufighters, and Mosquitos fill the role. All of these carry some form of radar. Unlike ships, I actually don't see separate day/night experience or skill listings for air groups, but it wouldn't surprise me if the game has it modeled in some obscure stat tucked away somewhere. I've never actually used them since an AI Japan tends to give up on night bombing (at least in any amount that matters) long before night fighters come online.
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May 29, 2017 05:01
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Any plans to soften up Noumea with naval bombardments before sending your pixelmen over the top? After the glory of sinking all those carriers a while back, your battleships seem a bit quiet. And while they're in the neighborhood, sending them at Fiji few times might quiet down those Liberators long enough to allow you to rebuild Luganville.
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Jun 14, 2017 22:26
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Might be a good idea to split your planes in Burma between Rangoon, Pegu, and Moulmein. Those three bases are close enough that CAP originating in one should be able to support another, and if they crater one airfield, it won't shut down your defense. Don't keep all your eggs in one basket, etc.
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Jun 24, 2017 19:09
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RA Rx posted:Grey, are you playing till you presumably win on January the 1st 1945 (barring some massive nabal disaster) or when the Allies use their third or fourth nuke, or are you fighting till the bitter end? He doesn't presently have the victory points at present to trigger autovictory on 1/1/45, and that 2x victory point threshold is only going to get more difficult to reach. Between subs with working torpedoes and airframes that outclass the Zero, shipping and aircraft kills will likely produce a slow trickle of points in the Allies' favor going forward, even if the AI isn't able to successfully invade anything. With the Essexes coming online to challenge Grey's naval supremacy, he probably won't be picking up any more prime real estate either. In short, we're probably going to scenario-end in mid 1946.
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Jul 17, 2017 06:53
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In-game, Spitfires and Hurricanes have a radius* of something like 3 hexes which relegates them almost purely to defense. By comparison, most other fighters have a radius of 4-6 hexes. The Zero can go 7, the P-51 can go 8. *In a game as grognardy as this, of course we need a footnote. There are two types of range: normal and extended, and ranges listed above are normal. Extended range forces planes to carry a reduced payload, and the chance to become an operational loss increases. There might be a combat penalty for fighters as well? On top of separate range bands, drop tanks are also a thing (which impacts both range bands), and to further complicate matters, each individual model of plane has its own drop tank item. For example, a P-40E has a single 52 gallon tank that gives it all of one extra hex of range while the P-38J can carry two 300 gallon tanks that boost its range from 7 hexes to 13 hexes. Many planes don't have a drop tank option at all. To keep things simple and logistically efficient, I usually stick within normal radius without drop tanks for everything not on a carrier. Slippery42 fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Jul 19, 2017 |
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Jul 19, 2017 18:01
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two_step posted:Speaking of this, did Grey take that training cruiser or whatever out of the fleet yet? I can't help but notice he didn't show the *full* fleet comp in his screenshot... In the task force screen, you'll see "Moves (m/c) 8/4" in the top left, meaning it moves 8 hexes per phase at max speed and 4 at cruise speed. I forgot just how slow that one cruiser is, but 20 knots can only carry a ship six hexes per phase at max speed, so I suspect he ditched it.
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Jul 25, 2017 07:45
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