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If you find it so unbelievable that a class identity can maintain an internally egalitarian ethic but nonetheless remain intensely hostile to any spread of this largesse to outsiders (who may mingle but not participate), consider the status quo attitude to economic migration in the West.
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Somfin posted:Tell me more about the Something Awful hiveminds, I'm intrigued and you seem to speak with some authority on them. If you go in to election threads and such you can see that there isn't very much in the way of actual want to change anything left types on the forums and his read of what the majority of "liberal progressives" on these forums is pretty clearly conform to USA democrats and let capitalism continue down the path it already is.
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Dec 27, 2015 21:38
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My argument about acceleration is an argument about Time, and our relationship to Time. So, on this, the 15th anniversary of my second SA forums account, I thought I would drop in on this thread, and talk to you a little bit about how understanding the concept of acceleration is essential to making sense over what is happening in our world today. I do not need to cite any sources to justify the obvious and invariable observation that all empires and nations follow an essentially parabolic path when it comes to a representation of their fortunes. They begin with some quickening, some movement or personality or idea that unites them and provides impulse and impetus to cause the rise of their fortunes. This impetus has sufficient novelty to propel the culture upward and onward, with a fairly consistent velocity, up to some plateau of stability. There is all sorts of space for cycles within cycles throughout this process, but eventually, the culture loses its coherency, and a kind of deceleration begins. This deceleration can be staved off temporarily, but as we have no exception to the rule that all nations and empires and countries must eventually fall from their peak of dominance, it appears reasonable that once we begin to detect the decline of a nation, that the only thing we can REALLY do is either allow the deceleration to take a stochastic path, or to actively engage with the inevitable, and try to direct the landing into something more controlled than a crash.  quote:From bottom to top: My contention is that most people observe politics, for example, upon the level of either distance or velocity. They ask questions about what's happening right now, assuming that whatever context has existed will CONTINUE to exist, even when the graph is starting to bend. When it comes to questions about the force or importance of ideologies, they take what's happening instantaneously, and unconsciously fit it into a narrative that assumes the stability of the factors they take for granted. For physicists, this means creating a parabolic chart of a perfectly-spherical, massless airplane, in a vacuum, the whole concept of ceteris paribus. For most people politically, right now, it means assuming that the political and economic systems and structures we have known, perhaps for the past few hundred years, will, of course, continue to right themselves and continue chugging merrily on. From a higher perspective, simply observing rates of change, deeper conclusions may be drawn. We may be able to look at structural changes in the game and note important inflection points that have changed the rules. Obviously, within current American politics, we can look at the Democratic-to-Republican inversion of the Southern Strategy as a prime example where something WITHIN the system underwent a massive inversion. Broader-scale change was enabled by this larger-scale shift: it's easy to causally track that change to the origin of Reagan and everything else he brought with him. However, if we continue to step back, we can look at the entire path of a nation's trajectory, or the trajectory even of entire paradigms of economic systems, like the capitalism/communism divide, and not simply get stuck in some lovely Marxist definition of "acceleration", with its stupid "endpoint of history" certainty that capitalism will fail and that communism will emerge triumphant. Instead, we can see those two ideas as a binary on a single continuum, a continuum that, over Time, is crashing both ideas simultaneously. We are currently, in my opinion, in a very clear deceleration phase of the entire work-based, industrial, wealth- and nation-oriented world system. If I were to think about this from a question of the rates of change of the rates of change of the fortunes of the world, I could find many examples to substantiate my position that we are now in a clear phase where we are accelerating towards a systemic collapse. What has been disappearing in American politics is, increasingly, the idea that our system has any structural validity whatsoever. It has come out of balance with itself, and we are no longer in a space where the concept of checks and balances apply. In terms of our economy, there is no longer any space for the poor to assert themselves against the rich, and we have undergone SUCH acceleration of this trend that the very idea of striking, or protesting, or imagining a different economic system in America is not even possible. I can ask, and HAVE asked every person claiming to be interested in our politics on these forums to provide me with a realistic, believable pattern by which a balance between the rich and poor might be practically reinstated, and all I get in return is deflecting insults, which I must forgive, because the blindingly obvious answer is that this sort of rebalancing is not now even mentally imaginable. On a meta-level, we are not even able to have a coherent thought about how the trend of the increase of velocity of the upward distribution of wealth might be even reduced, let alone stalled, and god forbid REVERSED. Even arguing about slowing this process down is now completely pointless, because it has become recursively applied to itself. The time to slow down the VELOCITY of wealth inequality was in the 80s. After 2008, it became clear that the system had applied itself exponentially to itself, and at that inflection point, we COULD have attempted a vast and very painful DECELERATION of the exponential wealth transfer going on. But now, having failed to think on a high enough level, having wasted years in thought about the distance between fortunes and not their rate of change or the acceleration of their rate, we are now past the point where change is possible. We can map out the exact same process when it comes to the question of climate change. We are now well and firmly past the point where any actual change is possible. There has never before been a situation where human culture has applied itself to itself to such a grand extent that the entire climate of the planet might be irreparably ruined. We COULD have noted the positional change in climate and its connection to fossil fuel consumption in the 70s and made a difficult change. We COULD have noted the velocity of the change in that change in the 90s, and made an even more difficult change. In the 2000s, we had a chance to recognize that climate change was not just increasing in velocity, but increasing in acceleration. Out of all this rambling, I wish to draw out a single point: taken rationally, I argue that it is now simply TOO LATE to put cats back in bags, TOO LATE to halt the recursive progression of climate change, and TOO LATE to decelerate the shitshow that is American politics. We are in a downward spiral that is not simply national, but global in scale. My challenge to anyone remains the same: to formulate a counter-argument that is not just a dismissive "Oh, things always get better, and people have been yelling about the end of the world since Cicero!", but to explain in detail how we can reverse the acceleration of politics towards complete separation from the concept of the public good and sane governance. I demand that someone make a believable case for HOW we are going to convince the whole world to reverse the process of climate destruction, to fend off what India and China are going to do as their consumption increases. And most importantly, I demand that you explain how our current systems manage to solve all of these problems WITHIN their own structures, WITHOUT some grand and extremely unpleasant overturning and revolution. Time is simply not on our side any more. Time has very much become our enemy. The longer it takes for us to make drastic changes, the more the problem accelerates in severity. I'm not even pretending to have an answer right now: I am simply asking for anyone to dare to refute the position that I am establishing. Because if you DO accept that things are exactly as dangerous as I say, how do you justify continuing to luxuriate in business as usual? In my personal life, I am doing what I can to spread my message, to make movements and choices that put into practice what I am preaching. When I talk on here, I speak simply from a position of having observed this discussion space through many of its changes, and hoping that people will snap out of the complacency that causes them to reject what I say and dismissively just watch as the world hurtles ever more quickly into an uncontrolled acceleration towards complete detonation.
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Jan 25, 2016 00:10
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It is inevitable that the Human Species will be faced by an Extinction Event caused by drastic Climate Change resulting in inclement weather; decreased Crop Production; desertification of Living Areas and subsequent Migration to more temperate Areas resulting in wide spread conflict and War Fare. However it is not likely that the Human Species will become entirely Extinct [no longer existant as a Species except by our Fossil Record and the ruins of our Civilisations] due to our severe adaptability and ingenuity; another Extinction Event occurred very early in pre history (approx. the Seventieth Century Before Christ [70,000 BC]) when the Toba Super Volcano erupted; causing intense Climate Disruptions that resulted in over whelming Death Rates; scattering of the Population; narrowing of the Genetic Resource available to the Human Race; resulting in Genetic Homogeneity similar to that of the Cheetah (Acinonyx jubatus); yet the Population recovered and attained its current Density; in fact Indonesia (the location of the Toba Super Volcano) is a very densely populated Region in the Year 2016. There fore we should not be concerned about the Extinction of the Human Species; it is unlikely that Total Extinction will occur as in the case of the Dinosaurs; because Dinosaurs were not intelligent.
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Jan 25, 2016 00:46
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RODNEY THE RACEHOR posted:It is inevitable that the Human Species will be faced by an Extinction Event caused by drastic Climate Change resulting in inclement weather; decreased Crop Production; desertification of Living Areas and subsequent Migration to more temperate Areas resulting in wide spread conflict and War Fare. However it is not likely that the Human Species will become entirely Extinct [no longer existant as a Species except by our Fossil Record and the ruins of our Civilisations] due to our severe adaptability and ingenuity; another Extinction Event occurred very early in pre history (approx. the Seventieth Century Before Christ [70,000 BC]) when the Toba Super Volcano erupted; causing intense Climate Disruptions that resulted in over whelming Death Rates; scattering of the Population; narrowing of the Genetic Resource available to the Human Race; resulting in Genetic Homogeneity similar to that of the Cheetah (Acinonyx jubatus); yet the Population recovered and attained its current Density; in fact Indonesia (the location of the Toba Super Volcano) is a very densely populated Region in the Year 2016. There fore we should not be concerned about the Extinction of the Human Species; it is unlikely that Total Extinction will occur as in the case of the Dinosaurs; because Dinosaurs were not intelligent. 1) take your meds 2) stuff you said is wrong: * events that aren't actually expected to lead to extinction are not extinction event * you don't understand genetic diversity (heterozygosity, a principal measure thereof, takes a long time at a tiny population size to actually largely disappear) * cheetahs have naturally low genetic diversity, because of the previous point, and if you look at other big cats you find many of the things that are allegedly evidence of severe inbreeding depression occuring in species with large population sizes
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Jan 25, 2016 00:51
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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stop spewing pseudo-academic convoluted garbage, boil down your actual assumptions and conclusions into legible points that people can understand and criticise if you don't you are probably a crackpot not worth listening to
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Jan 25, 2016 00:55
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No; I will not take my Meds; I have taken my Meds for this day; I take them with Break Fast; further more an event that could feasibly lead to an Extinction is an Extinction Event; when the Population is thus depleted (ten thousand to twenty thousand [10,000-20,000] Individuals of Breeding Capacity) the Survival of the Species becomes In Doubt; a chance event such as further Climate Deterioration; a Natural Disaster; a Locust Infestation; a Disease; could result in Extinction; thus the Chances of an Extinction are roughly equal to the chances of a Survival and the only difference is the Grace Of G-d; this is an Extinction Event because there is no Phrase for Possible Extinction Event; or Probable Extinction Event; or even for Likely Extinction Event Given the Correct Circumstances. Furthermore the Cheetah Population has high Genetic Homogeneity due to the small size; attributed to Poaching; Few Individuals provides a Small Genetic Resource; and the commonality of Shared Genes becomes High.
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Jan 25, 2016 00:59
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RODNEY THE RACEHOR posted:No; I will not take my Meds; I have taken my Meds for this day; I take them with Break Fast; further more an event that could feasibly lead to an Extinction is an Extinction Event; when the Population is thus depleted (ten thousand to twenty thousand [10,000-20,000] Individuals of Breeding Capacity) the Survival of the Species becomes In Doubt; a chance event such as further Climate Deterioration; a Natural Disaster; a Locust Infestation; a Disease; could result in Extinction; thus the Chances of an Extinction are roughly equal to the chances of a Survival and the only difference is the Grace Of G-d; this is an Extinction Event because there is no Phrase for Possible Extinction Event; or Probable Extinction Event; or even for Likely Extinction Event Given the Correct Circumstances. Furthermore the Cheetah Population has high Genetic Homogeneity due to the small size; attributed to Poaching; Few Individuals provides a Small Genetic Resource; and the commonality of Shared Genes becomes High.  that's called a population bottleneck event, not an extinction event (protip: it's the outcome that matters) also why are you Capitalising random Words like some Conspiracy Nutter or Sovereign Citizen? and you are still wrong about cheetahs since a simple check of the basic population genetics shows that cheetahs (which were never below the hundreds) cannot possibly have lost that much genetic diversity, and furthermore other big cats which never had that severe bottleneck also have such low genetic diversity. consequently there must be an evolutionary process keeping diversity low other than hunters
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Jan 25, 2016 01:05
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RODNEY THE RACEHOR posted:No; I will not take my Meds; I have taken my Meds for this day; I take them with Break Fast; further more an event that could feasibly lead to an Extinction is an Extinction Event; when the Population is thus depleted (ten thousand to twenty thousand [10,000-20,000] Individuals of Breeding Capacity) the Survival of the Species becomes In Doubt; a chance event such as further Climate Deterioration; a Natural Disaster; a Locust Infestation; a Disease; could result in Extinction; thus the Chances of an Extinction are roughly equal to the chances of a Survival and the only difference is the Grace Of G-d; this is an Extinction Event because there is no Phrase for Possible Extinction Event; or Probable Extinction Event; or even for Likely Extinction Event Given the Correct Circumstances. Furthermore the Cheetah Population has high Genetic Homogeneity due to the small size; attributed to Poaching; Few Individuals provides a Small Genetic Resource; and the commonality of Shared Genes becomes High. Good to know that low-effort trolling still has a place on these forums.
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Jan 25, 2016 01:15
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Do Not Give Sass to Me; a Population Bottle Neck is a reduction of the Population but Extinction is not a Possibility; however if the Climate under goes dramatic Change there will be a Distinct Possibility of Full Extinction; due to on going Effects of Climate Change on the Weather; Creatures; Human Health and Disease; etcetera; however a Major Depopulation Event (e.g. [for example] a Meteor Impact; a Solar Flare; Yellow Stone Super Volcano Eruption) will cause relatively few on going Effects; the Population that survives the initial disaster will likely survive to Reproduce; and Repopulate. You do not know any thing about Extinction Events; or Cheetahs; Genetic Diversity is not a Selected Trait; it is a Disaster Event for a Species.
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Jan 25, 2016 01:16
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Somfin posted:Good to know that low-effort trolling still has a place on these forums.
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Jan 25, 2016 01:17
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RODNEY THE RACEHOR posted:Do Not Give Sass to Me; a Population Bottle Neck is a reduction of the Population but Extinction is not a Possibility; however if the Climate under goes dramatic Change there will be a Distinct Possibility of Full Extinction; due to on going Effects of Climate Change on the Weather; Creatures; Human Health and Disease; etcetera; however a Major Depopulation Event (e.g. [for example] a Meteor Impact; a Solar Flare; Yellow Stone Super Volcano Eruption) will cause relatively few on going Effects; the Population that survives the initial disaster will likely survive to Reproduce; and Repopulate. You do not know any thing about Extinction Events; or Cheetahs; Genetic Diversity is not a Selected Trait; it is a Disaster Event for a Species. Is this poor literacy or schizophrenia?
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Jan 25, 2016 01:24
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RODNEY THE RACEHOR posted:Do Not Give Sass to Me; a Population Bottle Neck is a reduction of the Population but Extinction is not a Possibility; however if the Climate under goes dramatic Change there will be a Distinct Possibility of Full Extinction; due to on going Effects of Climate Change on the Weather; Creatures; Human Health and Disease; etcetera; however a Major Depopulation Event (e.g. [for example] a Meteor Impact; a Solar Flare; Yellow Stone Super Volcano Eruption) will cause relatively few on going Effects; the Population that survives the initial disaster will likely survive to Reproduce; and Repopulate. You do not know any thing about Extinction Events; or Cheetahs; Genetic Diversity is not a Selected Trait; it is a Disaster Event for a Species. I do not think you are a troll, however, I think you may be Schizophrenic. Have you ever been checked?
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Jan 25, 2016 01:25
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I am Highly Literate; I achieve Results in Reading Comprehension with in the top 0.1% of the ESL Population; I am not Schizophrenic; do not accuse me of Mental Imbalances; I am trying to discuss Human Extinction; the possibility there of; and the repercussions.
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Jan 25, 2016 01:27
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 actually Mojo Jojo would be more readable than you are RODNEY THE RACEHOR posted:No; I will not take my Meds; I have taken my Meds for this day; I take them with Break Fast; further more an event that could feasibly lead to an Extinction is an Extinction Event; when the Population is thus depleted (ten thousand to twenty thousand [10,000-20,000] Individuals of Breeding Capacity) the Survival of the Species becomes In Doubt; a chance event such as further Climate Deterioration; a Natural Disaster; a Locust Infestation; a Disease; could result in Extinction; thus the Chances of an Extinction are roughly equal to the chances of a Survival and the only difference is the Grace Of G-d; this is an Extinction Event because there is no Phrase for Possible Extinction Event; or Probable Extinction Event; or even for Likely Extinction Event Given the Correct Circumstances. Furthermore the Cheetah Population has high Genetic Homogeneity due to the small size; attributed to Poaching; Few Individuals provides a Small Genetic Resource; and the commonality of Shared Genes becomes High. Speaking of Mojo Jojo... Woolie Wool fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Jan 25, 2016 |
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Jan 25, 2016 01:41
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Quidam Viator posted:
Yeah you would, anyone know knows poo poo about history knows that isn't true. There are a lot of empires and nations that waxed and waned, waxed and waned. A parabolic path would be the exception, not the rule. You really are bad at making arguments, and I think you may also not know that many things.
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Jan 25, 2016 01:53
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The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion: You Are Racist > Accelerationism: No; I will not take my Meds; I have taken my Meds for this day; I take them with Break Fast
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Jan 25, 2016 01:56
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Obdicut posted:Yeah you would, anyone know knows poo poo about history knows that isn't true. There are a lot of empires and nations that waxed and waned, waxed and waned. A parabolic path would be the exception, not the rule. Ah but you see, all empires that have ever existed and ended have at some point been small, then grown larger, then become smaller again. According to the I'm An Aging Physicist and Here Is What I Think About Your Field methodology, this means that all empires have followed generally parabolic paths. Imagine a perfectly spherical Rome on a frictionless historical plane...
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Jan 25, 2016 01:59
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Somfin posted:Imagine a perfectly spherical Rome on a frictionless historical plane... History is not an Object; it is a State Of Being; and a Knowledge Archive.
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Jan 25, 2016 02:08
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Somfin posted:Ah but you see, all empires that have ever existed and ended have at some point been small, then grown larger, then become smaller again. It's kind of cool thinking about the variety, actually. Ancient Egypt: Just a fuckton of waxing and waning over thousands of years, one of the most long-lasting empires of all time, and yet there were times it barely existed, where it looked as though it would vanish. Ghenghis Kahn's empire rose like a flood, and then after his death, split into smaller but still quite stable empires. Rome: a slow local rise, a faster conquering of surrounding lands, a stagnation, a split into West and East with West resurging and falling back over and over, finally basically being absorbed by Germanic kingdoms and transforming them into a much more "Roman" one that lasted a hell of a long time itself, up until the age of gunpowder. The East changing and mutating but hanging on, sometimes basically just Byzantium. I can't actually think of a single empire that followed a parabolic path. quote:Imagine a perfectly spherical Rome on a frictionless historical plane. Imagine four spherical Romes on the edge of a cliff. Edit: Rodney may be trying to be the next Otter Guy.
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Jan 25, 2016 02:11
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Obdicut posted:It's kind of cool thinking about the variety, actually. Ancient Egypt: Just a fuckton of waxing and waning over thousands of years, one of the most long-lasting empires of all time, and yet there were times it barely existed, where it looked as though it would vanish. Ghenghis Kahn's empire rose like a flood, and then after his death, split into smaller but still quite stable empires. Rome: a slow local rise, a faster conquering of surrounding lands, a stagnation, a split into West and East with West resurging and falling back over and over, finally basically being absorbed by Germanic kingdoms and transforming them into a much more "Roman" one that lasted a hell of a long time itself, up until the age of gunpowder. The East changing and mutating but hanging on, sometimes basically just Byzantium. Let's not forget Imperial China, which fragmented and re-coalesced numerous times over a period of around 3,000 years. It literally fell and rose over and over again.
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Jan 25, 2016 02:14
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Obdicut posted:
think they are the same person. why is it mentally ill people always type The Same Way.
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Jan 25, 2016 02:19
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Famethrowa posted:think they are the same person. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophasia According to Prester John, all the capitalized words are used for concepts invented by the schizophrenic person that cannot really be translated into normal language, either because they're extremely esoteric (like her capital-A Authoritarians) or they just make no sense. E: it's actually strange to me that we even call it "schizophrenia" because it seems to be less about splitting things (the schiz- prefix) than about interweaving every single idea ever into an impenetrable tangle of overlapping patterns, hence why they so often go for conspiracy theories, since the reality they perceive might as well be one giant conspiracy theory. Woolie Wool fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Jan 25, 2016 |
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Jan 25, 2016 02:42
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My Previous Account was removed due to Moderator Prejudice.
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Jan 25, 2016 03:10
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Woolie Wool posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophasia Premise is that the schiz is due to a split with reality,
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Jan 25, 2016 03:54
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Debate & Discussion > Accelerationism: My Previous Account was removed due to Moderator Prejudice
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Jan 25, 2016 05:06
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Woolie Wool posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophasia Lawyers tend to capitalize Defined Terms.
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Jan 25, 2016 05:17
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Obdicut posted:Rodney may be trying to be the next Otter Guy. He definitely picked up the one-run-on-sentence-per-post style from that dude, but Otter Guy's thing was the abuse of BBcode tags, not random capitalisations. Was it both? I don't remember that well.
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Jan 25, 2016 05:18
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You are trapped in a room with a robot. Every time you take a breath, the robot shoots you in the balls with a bb gun. This will continue until the robot runs out of bb pellets, at which point your pain will be over and maybe you can figure out an escape. Now most people will hold thier breath and put off being shot in the balls as long as possible, although that won't solve the issue just postpone it. The accelerationist hyperventilates to get it over with. Concerning Trump and the tea party types, it's been pointed out but those voters don't matter in and of themselves. They matter because the gop machine recruited them. If Trump loses the general, his supporters won't do any soul searching, they aren't capable anyway, but the gop machine will. The powers that be started pandering to the lunatics for votes. With the southern strategy and later the tea party, the racists, bigots, evangelicals, and anti government folks started voting. Hopefully when the gop loses this election they will do some soul searching and stop pandering to those people, and they will fade back into the majority of the population that doesn't vote. Look back at your history. For a long time the hardcore Christians didn't really participate like they do now, and the anti gov nutjobs certainly didn't vote. We can go back to that. WorldsStongestNerd fucked around with this message at 05:46 on Jan 25, 2016 |
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Jan 25, 2016 05:42
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Woolie Wool posted:According to Prester John, all the capitalized words are used for concepts invented by the schizophrenic person that cannot really be translated into normal language, either because they're extremely esoteric (like her capital-A Authoritarians) or they just make no sense. Capitalized words also get used to connote God. Or that an ideal form beyond the word being used is being referred to. But they are also indicative of referencing beyond language, or beyond the symbolic. Quidam Viator posted:Time is simply not on our side any more. Time has very much become our enemy. The longer it takes for us to make drastic changes, the more the problem accelerates in severity. I'm not even pretending to have an answer right now: I am simply asking for anyone to dare to refute the position that I am establishing. Because if you DO accept that things are exactly as dangerous as I say, how do you justify continuing to luxuriate in business as usual? The end of this world, or this paradigm, or this order of things, isn't the end of the world. Even if it is, a refutation isn't necessary. I would rather dare to have faith in our brothers and sisters to do the right thing, to hope for the future and to work towards it, and to risk loving everyone I interact with. Ain't going to deny it, but ain't going to worry about it. It's always this dangerous. Keep loving moving. Bar Ran Dun fucked around with this message at 04:53 on Jan 26, 2016 |
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Jan 25, 2016 05:54
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It's a shame Kyoon isn't here or we'd have a trifecta. Also on the weird pronunciation talk, kyoon is interesting because he doesn't do that even though his posting is still...unsettling, eg: quote:Campaign to eliminate World's fastest man ever (1), Usain Bolt, officially launched (2). computer parts fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Jan 25, 2016 |
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Jan 25, 2016 06:06
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RODNEY THE RACEHOR posted:Genetic Diversity is not a Selected Trait Not that you, in particular, will be able to learn, but for everyone else: Yes, it actually is. High genetic diversity is disadvantageous in particularly heterogeneous or low-selective stress environments, organisms in these environments can be selected to be less diverse either by losing alleles or by evolving to have a lower mutation rate (another thing that can be selected for). computer parts posted:It's a shame Kyoon isn't here or we'd have a trifecta. Eripsa, too
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Jan 25, 2016 08:44
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So QV I was enough of a moron to read your stupid poo poo.Quidam Viator posted:I do not need to cite any sources to justify the obvious and invariable observation that all empires and nations follow an essentially parabolic path when it comes to a representation of their fortunes. They begin with some quickening, some movement or personality or idea that unites them and provides impulse and impetus to cause the rise of their fortunes. This impetus has sufficient novelty to propel the culture upward and onward, with a fairly consistent velocity, up to some plateau of stability. There is all sorts of space for cycles within cycles throughout this process, but eventually, the culture loses its coherency, and a kind of deceleration begins. If I was smart, I'd stop right here.  Dude. Dude. Are you really doing this? Are you really loving doing this? Quidam Viator posted:My contention is that most people observe politics, for example, upon the level of either distance or velocity. They ask questions about what's happening right now, assuming that whatever context has existed will CONTINUE to exist, even when the graph is starting to bend. When it comes to questions about the force or importance of ideologies, they take what's happening instantaneously, and unconsciously fit it into a narrative that assumes the stability of the factors they take for granted. For physicists, this means creating a parabolic chart of a perfectly-spherical, massless airplane, in a vacuum, the whole concept of ceteris paribus. For most people politically, right now, it means assuming that the political and economic systems and structures we have known, perhaps for the past few hundred years, will, of course, continue to right themselves and continue chugging merrily on. Care to explain why it won't? Even as silly and tumultuous as this election year in the US is, everything is proceeding business as usual. Quidam Viator posted:However, if we continue to step back, we can look at the entire path of a nation's trajectory, or the trajectory even of entire paradigms of economic systems, like the capitalism/communism divide, and not simply get stuck in some lovely Marxist definition of "acceleration", with its stupid "endpoint of history" certainty that capitalism will fail and that communism will emerge triumphant. Instead, we can see those two ideas as a binary on a single continuum, a continuum that, over Time, is crashing both ideas simultaneously. We are currently, in my opinion, in a very clear deceleration phase of the entire work-based, industrial, wealth- and nation-oriented world system. If I were to think about this from a question of the rates of change of the rates of change of the fortunes of the world, I could find many examples to substantiate my position that we are now in a clear phase where we are accelerating towards a systemic collapse. Talk about apples to oranges. Except in this case it's baseballs to theoretical 5D constructs. You're gonna have to do much better than "well using this metric I came up with, it matches THAT pretty graph ergo the end of civilization as we know it" Quidam Viator posted:What has been disappearing in American politics is, increasingly, the idea that our system has any structural validity whatsoever. Expand on this and cite your sources. Quidam Viator posted:It has come out of balance with itself, and we are no longer in a space where the concept of checks and balances apply. Explain. By what metric. Name some case studies. Quidam Viator posted:In terms of our economy, there is no longer any space for the poor to assert themselves against the rich, and we have undergone SUCH acceleration of this trend that the very idea of striking, or protesting, or imagining a different economic system in America is not even possible. The internet exists. The Occupy movement did exactly this. One of our democratic candidates is endeavoring to indirectly fix the wealth gap somewhat. Homeless vets are at 50% and falling, with several states eliminating vet homelessness altogether. Sorry, your idea doesn't fly. Quidam Viator posted:I can ask, and HAVE asked every person claiming to be interested in our politics on these forums to provide me with a realistic, believable pattern by which a balance between the rich and poor might be practically reinstated, and all I get in return is deflecting insults, which I must forgive, because the blindingly obvious answer is that this sort of rebalancing is not now even mentally imaginable. On a meta-level, we are not even able to have a coherent thought about how the trend of the increase of velocity of the upward distribution of wealth might be even reduced, let alone stalled, and god forbid REVERSED. Even arguing about slowing this process down is now completely pointless, because it has become recursively applied to itself. The time to slow down the VELOCITY of wealth inequality was in the 80s. After 2008, it became clear that the system had applied itself exponentially to itself, and at that inflection point, we COULD have attempted a vast and very painful DECELERATION of the exponential wealth transfer going on. But now, having failed to think on a high enough level, having wasted years in thought about the distance between fortunes and not their rate of change or the acceleration of their rate, we are now past the point where change is possible. Get off your high-horse, you're expressing a boilerplate opinion about wealth, especially on these forums. You are soundly mocked not for expressing this opinion, but for drawing conclusions that I have bolded. "Our minds [read: my mind] cannot even THINK of a solution, therefore we are SO FAR past hope that...  " and you let the thought trail off. Quidam Viator posted:Out of all this rambling, I wish to draw out a single point: taken rationally, I argue that it is now simply TOO LATE to put cats back in bags, TOO LATE to halt the recursive progression of climate change, and TOO LATE to decelerate the shitshow that is American politics. For a "single rational point" you sure have exactly zero evidence for it. Quidam Viator posted:We are in a downward spiral that is not simply national, but global in scale. My challenge to anyone remains the same: to formulate a counter-argument that is not just a dismissive "Oh, things always get better, and people have been yelling about the end of the world since Cicero!", but to explain in detail how we can reverse the acceleration of politics towards complete separation from the concept of the public good and sane governance. I demand that someone make a believable case for HOW we are going to convince the whole world to reverse the process of climate destruction, to fend off what India and China are going to do as their consumption increases. And most importantly, I demand that you explain how our current systems manage to solve all of these problems WITHIN their own structures, WITHOUT some grand and extremely unpleasant overturning and revolution. You're asking me to look into a crystal ball and predict the future you want. Quidam Viator posted:In my personal life, I am doing what I can to spread my message, to make movements and choices that put into practice what I am preaching. When I talk on here, I speak simply from a position of having observed this discussion space through many of its changes, and hoping that people will snap out of the complacency that causes them to reject what I say and dismissively just watch as the world hurtles ever more quickly into an uncontrolled acceleration towards complete detonation. And what exactly does this 'practice' consist off? All you're doing here is saying "the world is hosed wake up sheeple" From where I'm standing, you're no better than those you are accusing of complacency.
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Jan 25, 2016 09:17
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tl;dr: this thread attracts unmedicated schizos and other morons. Normal people can only stomach this level of crazy after having a strong drink Glugglugglug].
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Jan 25, 2016 10:42
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BrandorKP posted:Capitalized words also get used to connote God. Or that an ideal form beyond the word being used is being referred to. But they are also indicative of referencing beyond language, or beyond the symbolic. Now that I think of it, otter guy didn't capitalize everything just because he was crazy (though he was), but because he had a fetish for the way the Declaration of Independence and Constitution were written so he applied Capitalization to all the Nouns as part of his attempt to write like a village idiot in 1776.
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Jan 25, 2016 15:58
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Woolie Wool posted:Now that I think of it, otter guy didn't capitalize everything just because he was crazy (though he was), but because he had a fetish for the way the Declaration of Independence and Constitution were written so he applied Capitalization to all the Nouns as part of his attempt to write like a village idiot in 1776. Otterguy was literally the first thing I thought of reading the posts above.
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Jan 25, 2016 16:11
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Doomtalker posted:I do not think you are a troll, however, I think you may be Schizophrenic. Have you ever been checked? He's pulling an Enhydra lutris-esque (ie the otter guy who got banned for posting goatse in the I/P thread a while ago) gimmick by capitalizing every other noun or adjective for emphasis and writing in the style of overly formal 1800s gentry. In other words, yes, he's trolling. Teriyaki Koinku fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Jan 25, 2016 |
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Jan 25, 2016 17:17
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WorldsStrongestNerd posted:Concerning Trump and the tea party types, it's been pointed out but those voters don't matter in and of themselves. They matter because the gop machine recruited them. If Trump loses the general, his supporters won't do any soul searching, they aren't capable anyway, but the gop machine will. But see, the GOP elite already purportedly did this soul searching in Spring 2013 in the wake of the 2012 elections (where Karl Rove famously had his "polls are skewed" reality denying meltdown live on Fox News). They came up with a list of suggestions that even included things like 'alter messaging so we don't seem as racist towards Hispanics and other minorities.' This introspection lasted for all of a few weeks, the Republican party did diddly squat to act on this brief reconsideration of tactics, and so went right back to doubling down harder on the angry old white guy demographic, falling in line with guys like Trump today.
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Jan 25, 2016 17:36
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You have a point, but how big of a danger was a left field candidate like Trump or Cruz the last election? Forget losing an election. That happens sometimes. The gop elite are in danger of losing their entrenched power to the lunatics if they keep this poo poo up. It seems different this time, but I may be wrong.
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Jan 25, 2016 20:09
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Your Dunkle Sans posted:He's pulling an Enhydra lutris-esque (ie the otter guy who got banned for posting goatse in the I/P thread a while ago) gimmick by capitalizing every other noun or adjective for emphasis and writing in the style of overly formal 1800s gentry. Otter guy typed like a wannabe 18th century gentleman, Quidam Viator types like a wannabe postmodern academic, RODNEY THE RACEHOR just types like a schizophrenic and probably is one.
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Jan 26, 2016 01:15
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