Zoran posted:

It's entirely possible to like the prequels and believe they are good movies without agreeing with one single thing that SMG posts.

Nelson Mandingo posted:

Honestly it was the previous film where I became completely disconnected from the original prequels at that point. Anakin gets back from murdering a whole tribe of Sand People, revealing to Padme that he not only killed the men but the women and the children too.

And then...nothing. She literally says nothing. It's almost forgotten in the next 2 minutes and its never brought up again. It's like she didn't care, and we shouldn't either. I remember my immersion was so broken that I was actually looking around the theater at people rather than watching the film.

LinkesAuge posted:

But he didn't even "learn" that the Sith have the ability to save people from dying, he just heard a myth (are we supposed to think of Anakin as literal child who believes every story he is told?). Palpatine didn't offer him any powers, there was no proof that he could actually have such a power nor does he even know if the Sith still exist or who they are (up until that certain moment).

It's all just so flimsy as excuse for him to turn to the dark side. Sure he had bad visions about his wife but that's really not enough as justification/motivation, not to mention that it makes it even more stupid that he is in the end the one who hurts his wife. The whole way he acts and then "decides" to join the dark side doesn't feel organic. It's not even a real decission, his "turn" was more of an impulse. That might seem human on one hand but on the other hand it also made it way less dramatic than it could have been. Anakin stumbled to the dark side instead of being seduced by it. I know that some people will argue that's how it was supposed to be and everything else is just fan fiction in the minds of SW fans but it certainly doesn't add any sympathy towards Anakin and takes gravitas away from the whole story.

Until today I don't understand why Lucas wasted two movies before finally starting to tell the story of how Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader (and yes that was THE reason to be excited for the prequels). On top of that the big dramatic moment wasn't even well setup for the final movie. Padme wasn't put in danger, there is no conflict between Anakin and Obi-Wam/the Jedi, Palpatine still hadn't revealed himself or really started to turn Anakin, Anakin himself was still 100% in the Jedi camp (and yes some teeny bitching about Obi-Wan doesn't change that) and hardly showed any character development or growth as person (in whatever direction).

Parts of Dooku's character for example would have worked well with Anakin. There you have a former Jedi who was disappointed/felt betrayed by the Jedi and thus turned to the dark side. Why introduce such an additional character when you are already trying to tell the story of Darth Vader? I get the need for a big "villain" but having Dooku and Grievous was just unecessary and messy. I guess the problem was already in the pacing of the prequels. Setting the first film so far behind the other two was always going to cause problems in regards to story telling, the time gap was simply too big for a more cohesive story and while it was a good moment in TPM in hindsight it would have been better to keep Darth Maul around for the 2nd movie.

That way Anakin could have had his big moment in the 2nd movie against Maul with plenty of possibilities to create a dramatic story around it (revenge for Quin-Gon or whatever else Maul might have done in the 1st/2nd movie) and more importantly show more of the relationship between Anakin and Obi-Wan/the Jedi instead of wasting your screen time on all kinds of other plots (and I don't even mean the relationship with Padme, that's fine, even necessary to humanize Anakin though I wish it would have been done competently and with actors that had at least some chemistry with each other on screen). Also let Palpatine be more active instead of giving that screen time to Dooku and Grievous. Let him actually seduce Anakin. We got hints of that in the 3rd movie and those were among the best scenes in the prequels but it was too little and too late.

There was never a need for Palpatine to be the biggest undercover master manipulator in space history. His identity doesn't need to be a secret until the third movie. It could have already been revealed in the 2nd movie (at least to some people) and then be used to escalate the story a lot sooner (and there are still enough ways to get Palpatine into power). You could even have used that reveal in showing how ineffective the Jedi have become, not just to the audience but especially to Anakin. Give him an actual side he can turn to/be seduced by instead of this vague background threat the Sith were in the first two prequel movies which was imo one of the biggest problems of the prequels. It not only made the Jedi look more stupid than plausible but it also created problems for the story because Lucas constantly had to invent new factions and characters he could throw at Anakin and the Jedi despite Palpatine/the Sith being the most interesting and the whole "reason" for the prequels in the first place.

The original movies were about those two big forces (pun intended) with the Rebellion being a lot more in the background (sometimes literally being in the background) while the prequels pushed the Republic and the Separatists right into our faces (including their politics) and made the Jedi/the Sith side characters. That's just bad if your main character is Anakin/Darth Vader and not some Star Wars space politician and your famous factions are the Jedi and Sith and not space parties. Do all of that if you want to tell the story of Bail Organa but keep it to a minimum if you want to tell an epic scfi-fantasy story and not a political drama.

Zoran posted:

She says, "To be angry is to be human." She's rationalizing for him.

Padmé's big flaw is that she refuses to see the worst in her friends until it's too late. She did it with Senator Palpatine and she does it again with Anakin. And Anakin in turn desperately wants to be validated, which is why he likes Palpatine and Padmé so much. The difference between the two is that Padmé reassures him of his goodness, whereas Palpatine praises him for his greatness.

Frackie Robinson posted:

The prequels were all about telling the fans that they really need to grow up, get laid, and set childish things aside, so I imagine the new ones will be, "no, it's still okay to like Star Wars, you're not a man-child, this is all as cool as you remember"

Zoran posted:

She says, "To be angry is to be human." She's rationalizing for him.

Padmé's big flaw is that she refuses to see the worst in her friends until it's too late. She did it with Senator Palpatine and she does it again with Anakin. And Anakin in turn desperately wants to be validated, which is why he likes Palpatine and Padmé so much. The difference between the two is that Padmé reassures him of his goodness, whereas Palpatine praises him for his greatness.

Steve2911 posted:

Padme is a racist.

Jewel Repetition posted:

I don't know, the prequels kind of went out of their way to make jedis look cool and make getting laid look like a horrible ordeal that causes the protagonist's downfall. Unless you mean they made people grow up by not liking Star Wars anymore.

Fred Breakfast posted:

I would't call Padme's trust of Palpatine a flaw. The whole point of his character is deceit, and he's drat good at it. People only figure out what his deal is when he wants people to actually know.

drunkill posted:

Was just about to post this in the general star wars thread, but Harmy (Despecialized creator) talked with ABC Australia for an article:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-12-14/restoring-star-wars/6994818

sassassin posted:

When did the jedi look cool?

computer parts posted:

It's pretty simple logic really. Guy loves his wife, guy gets a vision about his wife dying (and his previous one about his mom dying came true), guy learns that the Sith have the ability to save people from dying, guy finds out his boss is going to kill the only Sith left in the galaxy.

A ton of people would at least consider stopping the Sith lord from dying, especially when the executioner is himself violating the law.

Arglebargle III posted:

Here's my big manifesto for how the prequels could have been done better: Anakin should have been cast older in episode 1.

sassassin posted:

When did the jedi look cool?

Zoran posted:

The prequels go out of their way to much make the Jedi look cool, but also show them to be arrogant and out-of-touch. Anakin doesn't fall because he gets laid, he falls because he has a whole bunch of emotional hangups that nobody in the Order can help him with.

Bongo Bill posted:

Doing acrobatic flip jumps all the time while fighting looks cool, sorry prequel haters.

Bongo Bill posted:

Doing acrobatic flip jumps all the time while fighting looks cool, sorry prequel haters.

ATP_Power posted:

Another thing that struck me in TPM is the scene where Anakin is packing up and is talking to C3P0 about how he wasn't going to be able to finish him, and would try to make sure his mom wouldn't sell him. When the scene looks at C3P0 it's a normal shot, but when the camera is on Anakin (the recently freed slave) talking about how he'll make sure his mom doesn't sell 3P0, it's shot from what looks like 3P0's first person perspective. Is that one of the only times we have a first person shot in any of the Star Wars films? It really stood out to me.

quote:

GEORGE LUCAS: And this is the payoff of this Darth Vader killing his subordinates Piett joke. Is this one where he comes down at the very end of the movie and you fully expect him to get killed and he doesn't. He's too upset to even bother with killing his subordinates. Because we're talking about his son now. So he's conflicted. It's not just hate anymore. There's more to it than that. He's C-3PO disassembled.

ImpAtom posted:

I legitimately think that Anakin should have been the same age as Luke. I think a lot of things would flow more easily and frankly make more sense.

Edit: Also it wouldn't have ruined some poor bastard's life.

Frackie Robinson posted:

Getting mowed down by a bunch of frail goofy robots and talking termites

quote:

Zoran posted:

Yeah, but the way Palpatine deceives people is by finding their flaws and exploiting them. Anakin laps up praise from a kindly old grandfather. The Jedi never suspect him because they don't think they could ever be outsmarted. Dooku mistakes his big role for actual importance. Padmé sees him as an experience ally fighting hard for her in the Senate, and she never rethinks that position.

Mace Windu posted:

I sense a plot to destroy the Jedi. The dark side of the Force surrounds the Chancellor.

Cnut the Great posted:

MAN'S VOICE: Who are you?

RBA Starblade posted:

What is this a shot of? I can't tell what the object is. Also your first "First words" image is broken btw.

Cnut the Great posted:

Snip

Jewel Repetition posted:

They're really explicit about Anakin's attachment to Padme being against the rules of the jedi order and being the thing that lets the dark side into him. She's the lever Sidious uses.

Jewel Repetition posted:

My favorite ideas for making the prequels better are still Belated Media's. I assume everyone here has seen them.

Fred Breakfast posted:

I'll give you Anakin, but the relationship between Palpatine and Padme is on the rocks by the time Revenge of the Sith rolls around though, being that even his alter ego is pretty pro war and pro power and Padme isn't. There's a deleted scene or two from the last one that shows that quite well.

Steve2911 posted:

Ok your content in the old thread was interesting but this is absolute nonsense.

nerdbot posted:

Still praying for Episode 7 to have the revelation that Mace Windu survived and lived on whatever Coruscant's surface looks like as a handless hobo for like 60 years. Like one of those WWII vets who got stranded on an island and still wants to kill the Japanese.

Zoran posted:

I just watched the TPM one. Personally, I think the number one red flag in prequel criticism is when someone says that Jar-Jar was "not important." Annoying? Sure! Some of the jokes involving him fell flat? Yep! But not important? Qui-Gon sees value in him when no one else (including the audience and also all the other characters) does. Eventually, it's Jar-Jar who shows Amidala that the solution to her problem was in front of her the whole time. Padmé didn't need to go to Coruscant and she didn't need to put Palpatine in power, but she did, just because her society was too racist to even consider asking the Gungans for help. Padmé's breakthrough is in overcoming her own prejudices, and it only happens because Qui-Gon kept Jar-Jar around.

Fred Breakfast posted:

This is one of the few of your posts where I can't see the similarity. Like, at all.

jivjov posted:

The prequel trilogy shots line up really well. Not so sure on the ESB ones.

Steve2911 posted:

Qui Gon thinks no more of Jar Jar than anyone else and keeps him around when he's useful because he has no other options.

Then Jar Jar is tricked into starting a galactic war and ushering in 20+ years of hell.