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I really liked this movie. It didn't feel terribly original, but I got pretty much everything I wanted going into a QT movie. I liked the way the characters and plot were set up. Every character was a swerve waiting to happen, but there was no central character to serve as a moral compass because they're all terrible. QT's last two movies hinged on a very minor character making an innocuous observation that ended up ruining the big plans of the main characters (the drunken soldier catching Hiccox's accent and Calvin's sister noticing Hildy was crushing on Django). In Hateful Eight, the supporting characters have an elaborate plan that gets blown up because the two main characters who are total con-artists and also have a knack for sniffing out bullshit are introduced to them unexpectedly. I do want to re-watch the movie paying closer attention to the dialogue with Warren and Mannix, because by the end of the movie, it's obvious you can't assume anything either one says is true. Despite their seemingly diametrically opposed worldviews, their real bond is their con-artistry. Blind Pineapple fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Jan 19, 2016 |
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Jan 19, 2016 22:15
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socketwrencher posted:Marquis is trapped in a cabin where people want to kill him. Despite taking guns off of Mobray and Gage, he would assume that they're all (with the exception of Daisy) still armed (just like he assumed that Jody had two guns). Both of those scenes could have been handled differently to remove the perceived carelessness without affecting the plot. Marquis could have, for example, stood on the other side of the general during the speech which would have allowed him to keep an eye on everyone. It's the equivalent of sitting with one's back to the door in a restaurant rather than facing the door. Sure, people make mistakes. But do the mistakes fit the characters? If Marquis had been killed during either of those scenes, which he certainly could have been, would it still not be careless? Wasn't taking the guns off Mobray and Gage John Ruth's idea? Warren helped him with Gage, but I don't think he was as concerned with him or Mobray. Warren was fixated on Bob who he knew was full of poo poo. It seemed like his initial assumption was that Bob offed Minnie and Sweet Dave and was posing as the innkeeper and was the main threat to Ruth bringing Daisy into town. He didn't suspect either of the others was involved until the coffee got poisoned. During his speech to the general, Bob was in his peripheral vision playing the piano.
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Jan 20, 2016 19:35
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I think the fact that he lines them all up against the wall for his "interrogation" showed that he strongly entertained the idea of them being innocent travelers. The only reason they didn't all meet the same end as Bob was because, even after the coffee was poisoned, he still thought it was only one of the two that was in on it. Despite Warren being psychopath underneath, he maintains a facade that all his victims "deserve it." Additionally, Warren is quite arrogant, and already having worked Ruth like the mark he saw him as, he probably thought he could get Bob to crack and reap any potential rewards by himself.
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Jan 20, 2016 20:21
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socketwrencher posted:Good points all. Interesting angle about his trying to reap the rewards for himself, I didn't think of that. His confidence about his ability to handle whatever they threw at him might have played into it as well. I think the biggest revelation that made the movie click for me was realizing that Warren is not a "good person." It's easy to instinctively cast him as the protagonist in your head because it's largely told from his perspective and he's got the sympathetic thing going for him about being the only black man trapped with 6 white people who are varying degrees of openly racist. Eventually you realize that he's a con-artist and a psychopath just like Mannix and the Domergue gang, and his fatal flaw is his overconfidence. He probably was the smartest guy in the room, but not by enough to overcome the numbers disadvantage. Since he pretty much nailed that Bob killed Minnie and Dave right away, it wouldn't be too farfetched to assume Bob was wanted somewhere and he could add to his $8000 if he could work him into what looks like a justifiable homicide. That looked to be his game based on how much he was prodding him with the proprietors' whereabouts, and eventually escalating his con with race-baiting just like he did with the general. Unrelated, but since I've finally read through the whole thread now, I thought I'd address the flashback scene which some thought was unnecessary. I thought it served at least 2 important purposes, though. 1. While anyone could've figured out by the end that everyone that didn't show up at the same time as Ruth was a "bad guy" and they killed Minnie, what you wouldn't have known is that their plan to free Daisy would've gone off without a hitch had Warren and Mannix not showed up. If all the Domergue gang had to worry about was Ruth and maybe a driver, they could've easily outlasted Ruth by sleeping in shifts or had ample opportunity to poison his food/drink unnoticed. This emphasizes the importance of Warren and Mannix to the story as their presence creates the entire atmosphere of tension the movie is built around. The "oh poo poo" looks on the gang's faces when they hear the unexpected voices loops right back around the immediate tension when we saw the events from Warren's perspective. 2. On a lesser note, it reveals that Warren's sign story is total bullshit. Minnie has absolutely zero aversion to Bob in the flashback, and I'll need to make a note to look for this in a re-watch, but I feel like someone was wearing a hat too. Even if that part wasn't true, it was definitely clear Minnie didn't hate Mexicans like Warren insisted. While it's easy to make excuses for the other lies he had been called on to that point, that one kind of hammered home that maybe he was an opportunistic sleazebag. Blind Pineapple fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Jan 20, 2016 |
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Jan 20, 2016 23:56
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xcore posted:Did she know he was Mexican? He didn't really say anything other than saying his name was "Bob". Either way, she probably had a different outlook on "one of four paying customers coming through" and "hiring a Mexican employee and leaving him to run her beloved business for a week while she visits her parents" Maybe, but Warren's story was she thought Mexicans were lower than dogs and not allowed in under any circumstances. I guess it's subject to change on re-watch, but I thought it was fairly obvious he was using that to see if Bob would slip. Warren asked if Bob knew about the sign, then when it was clear he didn't (because it didn't exist), Warren started adding details at will. It was just another con in Warren's bag of tricks. Cemetry Gator posted:Warren is the protagonist. Remember, protagonist does not mean "good guy," it just simply is the person who drives the story forward and the events are centered around. It's a common mistake for us to assume that protagonist and antagonist mean 'good guy' and 'bad guy' respectively, because most movies are about good people. That is true, I should have phrased it as "not being the hero of the story." He does have some (suspect) principles, but he's clearly not above manipulating people to accomplish less-than-noble goals.
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Jan 21, 2016 06:32
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Question for the Civil War buffs (with a very minor, inconsequential spoiler): When Mobray suggests they should divide the room into north/south halves, he makes the fireplace side for the south and the bar side for the north. He says the fire represents Georgia (ouch) and the bar represents Philadelphia. I assume the second half that line is supposed to be just as stinging as the first, but I can't make the connection to get the joke if there is one.
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Jan 24, 2016 20:23
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xcore posted:Question for any American, what's so stinging about the first part of the line? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherman%27s_March_to_the_Sea TL;DR: The North used a scorched earth approach on the South toward the end of the war, most notably burning through Atlanta and Savannah.
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Jan 24, 2016 23:05
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