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Yeah, it made sense that they thought they were hosed when they landed in some kind of deserted part of an enemy kingdom. Even if they could fight off the soldiers and whatever backup they might have they'd have to journey home. Diplomacy seemed like the better first choice. And the whole thing was a bluff on the other guys' part so they couldn't fight when the ruse was exposed.
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Mar 4, 2017 06:41
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Well Margo just went off and unilaterally declared war. But Margo's a pretty natural loose canon war monger when you think about it. Tiggum posted:I thought the same, except that there had been kings and queens in the meantime who'd just kept killing each other because of the curse and the Fillorians just thought they kept only getting paranoid arseholes showing up. Ah, true. I guess there were randoms over the last couple of centuries or whatever it is in not-Narnia time but they were all too short term to make an impact. But its also just more of the "not-Narnia" since that was the book thing and they really enjoyed handing over their system to random kids who wandered through wardrobes.
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Mar 5, 2017 05:28
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Yeah, demon baby is protecting itself.
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Mar 9, 2017 01:06
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I don't remember when that lady's encounter with Reynard was (I know it was stated, I just don't remember) but the age gap between her and Julia seemed like it could safely be 20 years or so. And there's no rule that says demon babies have to age at the same rate as human babies. So yeah, I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out that some Brakesbill student or teacher is the baby. Although I'm at a loss to think of what established character that would make sense for.
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Mar 9, 2017 01:57
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Its a show about magic so like, they could do it if they want. Demon babies could just age slower. But as I said, it wouldn't really make sense for any of the characters we know. But I don't put "it doesn't make sense" past Magicians if they want to do it.
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Mar 9, 2017 02:41
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Xealot posted:I fail to see what's "edgy" about my assessment? The "edgy" thing that will insult people in your post is that by saying that "everything they experience is their own fault" you're not only implying that they're responsible for the initial problem of the Beast targeting them and Jane loving with them which started this whole chain of events (which they're absolutely not) but you're also basically saying that its Julia's fault she got raped. And while I'm willing to grant that wasn't your intent and understand what you're saying about "bad decisions having consequences" its still kind of just a sideways move to "it was a bad decision for her to go down that street dressed like that." Again, I'm not saying you intended that, but it is the natural consequence of "all their bad stuff is the fault of their own actions." Plus it isn't the first time its come up in here. We've got a story about a traumatized rape victim so its going to be a touchy subject.
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Mar 15, 2017 11:54
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Xealot posted:Oh, yeah, no. That wasn't what I was going for. Julia's made some self-destructive choices, but I don't think a sane person would hold her accountable for being sexually assaulted by a false god who she summoned to cure cancer. There's no doubt Julia (and the rest) have made a whole host of bad decisions that have led to many of their problems. Obviously that doesn't preclude basic empathy that allows us to say none of them deserved to be raped or abused (Penny's really been through the ringer) or die. But again, I'd offer that really they're all just the victims of magic wielding puppet masters like Jane Chatwin. Xealot posted:I might be misremembering the first season, though, because I thought Alice's seance *was* how they initially got the Beast's attention. Jane created a time loop, so by the 40th recursion it had become a predestined conflict, but I was under the impression that the seance happened in the first iteration of the loop, and that's why the Beast was interested in Quentin et al instead of any other given Brakebills students. Penny was being targeted by the Beast for years prior to Brakesbill, although that may have been less about Penny and more about the Beast targeting travelers. And the seance only happened because Jane gave Quentin the key to it and Alice noticed. So both point to it all being the Beast and Jane loving with them from the very start. I don't know how it all started but I imagine that get swept away as Narnia-like "fate" that they always had to save Fillory. But the whole message of the show is basically that what is presented as whimsy and fantasy is usually just an rear end in a top hat like Jane loving with people. So the more likely answer IMO is that Jane needed someone to stop her brother and these kids got drafted.
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Mar 15, 2017 13:11
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Well they did kind of "lampshade" the kids not being very good at the start of the series by having Jane and the Dean talk about it was too early and they weren't nearly ready but they had no choice. And they kept talking Quentin up like he was full of potential and just wasn't meeting it. Alice and Julia are obviously good and Penny is a traveler and psychic which is rare. Eliot ends up High King and him and Margo don't seem bad, just distracted by their behavior. And maybe its just that these kids all lined up right with their age and personalities or something. Or maybe Jane just sucks and picked a lame team. Because the thing they keep reminding us of is just because you're magic doesn't mean you don't suck. And Jane didn't even know enough not to get locked alone in a basement with The Beast. I thought her power wasn't time travel but a kind of "reset" power like the one Julia and her friends have. That Jane could go back to the point when the kids join Brakesbills and start the loop over but she doesn't get to bounce around in time like HG Wells or Doctor Who. Or maybe there's some paradox to going back and doing something that would stop her from going back in the first place or something? Some magic nonsense. I really don't try and think too much about this stuff. Even if magic and time travel stuff made any sense or followed rational rules (which it doesn't) this show isn't really working very hard at that stuff and is more focused on dirty jokes. I'm not going to take the show more seriously than the show takes itself.
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Mar 15, 2017 19:08
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The way the Beast presented it to Julia was that if he took away her shade she'd lose all the pain and guilt she was struggling with. And she rejected it because it would mean losing empathy and kindness and stuff like that like The Beast. So it seems to basically be your conscience.
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Mar 16, 2017 14:23
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I mean, it was basically pushed as his last resort or he'll die so it didn't bother me at all. That's different from a heat of the moment situation that he did actually get out of without her, even if by luck.
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Mar 31, 2017 21:03
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I kind of hate Elliot too. Like, he can be more amusing at times but he's just as much of a mopey, emo, self destructive rear end in a top hat as Quentin. To tell you the truth, I hate everyone except Penny. I've got some sympathy for Katey and Julia, I guess, but they're assholes too. And Penny's a loving rear end in a top hat too, he's just mad at the show so we're on the same page.
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Apr 1, 2017 20:30
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Yeah, Julia's unquestionably the most interesting and tragic character on the show. Penny's pretty one dimensional, for sure. But most of the characters are. The only real growth most of them have gotten is tragedy or curses. Penny's basically the least developed character because he's suffered the least amount of emotional and psychology damage through all of this. He got his hands back and he's loving Kady again. All things told he might have come out of this better since the Beast isn't whispering in his ear anymore.
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Apr 3, 2017 23:03
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Yeah, it theoretically sucks but we don't actually know what it means besides he has a sucky job. And half of it sucking is just his bad attitude. Of course he is expected to kill himself if someone hexes him to try and get at a room full of evil books. So that sucks. But that's kind of the magical equivalent of your boss expecting you to work on Saturdays. But I'd still say that puts him ahead of having spent his entire life having to drug himself into a stupor to ignore the voices in his head.
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Apr 4, 2017 00:38
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I'm just saying, as far as bad jobs go having a million years to access all the information and knowledge of the universe while having to make some collection runs really ain't that bad on the surface and has some obvious perks.
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Apr 4, 2017 01:17
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Yeah, I don't think highly of the writing but the joke there seemed to clearly be that the dragon is an "Ancient One" and it makes absolutely no sense for her to be judging "millenials" like that given her timespan. Hence why its funny. Its the same realm of "You've heard of Swayze?" or "Foo-Fighters, why are you laughing?" This show loves making magical beings make references that make no sense outside of our culture.
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Apr 11, 2017 22:43
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For whatever its worth I'm pretty sure the "millenial stereotype" she was responding to was them wanting the help without giving up the button. And then Quenton asking to borrow it. "Something for nothing/you just expect handouts." We've officially spent more time dissecting this joke than this show spends writing them.
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Apr 12, 2017 04:47
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Persephone seemed to imply that Julia would suffer some unclear consequences for killing a god, although that certainly could have been a lie. Ultimately Julia seemed to just take it as the ultimate test for if she could exhibit compassion at the highest level even without her shade. Sure, there's a little more than just "revenge" I play since Reynard could just go back to raping and killing. But the setup was a morality okay and Kady clearly represent the "you should have loving killed him!" side (it's kind of easy to forget since all her suffering was offscreen but Kady is Reynard's victim too). Edit: And yeah, the god killing bullet seems like a pretty obvious Chekhov's gun for the whole Ember/Umber mess. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Apr 17, 2017 |
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Apr 17, 2017 20:18
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I assume Kady could observe everything since she wasn't confused or anything about what happened, she just went straight to anger. But who knows?
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Apr 17, 2017 22:09
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I'm not sure "no shade" is as strictly "no conscious/soul" as implied. Like, maybe she's just faking it and trying to be a good person but at some point if she knows what the right thing is and actively wants to make that choice and does, it begs the question of what exactly the difference is between that and if she did the same with a shade. Obviously losing her shade makes that harder for her to do but over the last couple of episodes she seems to show that its not impossible and she doesn't even need someone telling her what to do as she makes the Alice choice all on her own because of her feelings for Quentin and selflessness. Choosing to spare Reynard for Persephone over her revenge seems like the last test of that. She has no logical reason to do it, its purely a moral choice to show mercy. We can say that she's just doing what she thinks she should do, but I again wonder what the difference is between wanting to do the right thing and wanting to want to do the right thing are.
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Apr 18, 2017 00:08
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Magicians plays pretty fast and loose with pacing and passage of time. They really don't talk about how much time passes between episodes but on more than one occasion its pretty clear weeks or months should have passed based on the story. Like, my guess is Quentin should have been at Brakebills for at least a semester or two while Julia went through her depression, discovery of hedge witches, rock bottom, and rehab. My impression is the first book is a lot of boring poo poo about Quentin in class and they just brushed past all that stuff. But it does hurt the pacing of relationship building and Julia's whole wild ride. Season 2 only gets even hazier with the concept that time moves differently on Fillory so who the gently caress knows how much time is passing for Elliot and Margo while the others are doing stuff on Earth?
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Apr 18, 2017 22:38
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They implied the Wellspring in Fillory was feeding the magic on Earth but like the "plumber" specifically went to Earth and the Library to shut off magical valves in those places too. So its not like just shutting off Fillory shut everyone else off. The "plumber" just made his rounds. And yeah, I could buy the idea that Julia can tap into magic because there's some leftover in her from the demigod baby or her shade coming back from the afterlife. But I imagine there's a larger answer than that since obviously they're going to bring magic back. Julia might have just been the first person to get there because she was repeatedly described and presented as a gifted and determined magician who could see and do things others including the Dean couldn't. But I guess maybe the first theory could hold true and they could all get at magic by tapping into all those other creatures that have a touch of magic in them the way that first one of Reynard's baby's mommas did with whatever was in the kiddie pool.
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Apr 27, 2017 09:51
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Open Source Idiom posted:Wait, you think Margot and Elliott dated? I mean, they have a codependent intimate relationship and they hosed. Blazing Ownager posted:And took the body of a guy she genuinely liked to go on a continued rape & murder spree, too. Even before all that she was pretty hosed up by Brakesbills introducing her to magic, loving with her mind, loving it up and leaving her all messed up, and then having a dickhead best friend who basically told her to gently caress off about it. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 21:37 on May 19, 2017 |
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May 19, 2017 21:34
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I was just joking. I mean, clearly they never "dated." But also they kind of do have a "relationship" in every way besides the romance and sex... and well, the sex kind of happened at least once. Even if we don't exactly know their naughty parts touched. I think derisively and insultingly calling them "exes" is not only figuratively fair but also totally within bounds of two characters who would do the same to any of us.
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May 19, 2017 21:50
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I mean, obviously geeves is referring to Richard's group Julia joins AFTER Marina's goes to poo poo and traumatizes her further. But like, even though Marina's group was always sketchy as hell it still goes back to the part where Julia had been shown a world that Brakesbills and her best friend tried to take from her (and without any grace or comfort) and she was an emotional and mental wreck when someone said "hey, you're not crazy or alone." Millions of people have been lured to bad decisions by that exact same line. Julia isn't an idiot, she's a victim. Before Reynard it was Marina, before Marina it was Quentin, Jane Chatwin, and Brakesbills.
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May 20, 2017 21:49
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She did a lovely thing to try and get back at a friend who treated her like poo poo. Marina didn't tell her there'd be any true danger and when she realized Quentin was in real trouble she came clean and tried to help. Julia's made a bunch of really bad choices that have hurt people. But she's literally been getting her body, emotions, and mind hosed with by more powerful people (and her best friend) since Episode 1.
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May 20, 2017 22:25
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It seems silly to discount the fact that Reynard and his mom were all "you can't kill a god, there will be consequences" and then 2 episodes later they kill a god and there's big consequences.
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Jun 29, 2017 22:04
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Not a huge Magicians fan and was on the fence about picking up again with S3, but that coded pop culture conversation was pretty great.
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Jan 19, 2018 21:29
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I'm basically watching for the wacky, fun, sleazy Fillory stuff at this stage and am really put off by the PTSD depression real world stuff. I guess I'd feel bad saying that if they were real people suffering from trauma and depression... but they're tv characters and its been 3 seasons of it. I'm ready to get off. But then there's Margo and Elliot being snarky in Narnia while trying to outsmart sadistic villains and I'm entertained. I'm giving Penny a pass because he's the closest thing to an adjusted, decent person in the cast. Xun posted:Sheesh does the show have something against cats or something? I kind of assume its a meta gag about witches and cats.
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Jan 26, 2018 08:07
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That was a fun episode. Definitely helped by focusing on the most likable character. Somehow it was hilarious to see Penny realize no one loves him... or isn't sure if they do because he was always a dick.
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Feb 1, 2018 23:10
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He's very much the weak link of the show, and by now even Julia is really recovering from the mountain of trauma she suffered through and adjusting more. They seem to have leaned into that a bit and mock Q a little but like every Quentin/Alice scene is just rough. Margo and Elliot were in real danger of getting horrible for awhile in S1 but the whole Fillory thing has saved them by being the thing they both embrace as their life's meaning so they don't have to be destructive alcoholics anymore.
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Feb 2, 2018 00:19
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As long as they're doing it for fun and relaxation and not to numb the empty feeling inside them and the fear of having no idea what to do with their lives.
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Feb 2, 2018 00:40
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NmareBfly posted:Yeah, good points. I am naive and expect the best from people, but perhaps someone who is using the last dregs of magic to work their martini machine should not be trusted with the knowledge of a fresh source. Think back a few episodes when they went looking for a god and Julia showed Josh her magic because he was depressed. Quentin said she can't do that because there would be people who would do anything to get their hands on magic again. So its probably safe to assume that they just didn't trust the random lady and maybe the Dean even advised them that they shouldn't. Or does the Dean actually know Julia can do magic? I've kind of lost track of who knows. But yeah, the fact that there were fairies in that home who saw her do magic and get the key is probably a really bad omen.
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Feb 2, 2018 04:33
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WrightOfWay posted:I don't think the dean knows that Julia has magic but he knows that they have a lead on restoring it and is willing to help them. Yeah, that's what I figured. The Dean knows this crew's history with the Chatwins and Fillory and their significance in all this, so it makes sense for him to just back them when they say they have a lead. He doesn't have a better option.
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Feb 2, 2018 22:09
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I think everyone gets the basic idea that Quentin thinks he's the prototypical destined hero from one of his stories but he's basically just along for the ride. Getting the joke just doesn't make him any more tolerable.
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Feb 5, 2018 23:45
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I mean he hooks up with Elliot but he was wasted on magic booze or something so I'm not sure it was really an active choice or something he'd identify as. Then again its not really my place to say what Quentin is or isn't but I don't recall him ever actually suggesting he was into dudes outside of that night.
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Feb 6, 2018 04:54
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I didn't love it quite as much as you guys (part of which I just chalk up to me not enjoying the show as much as you guys so not caring about the characters as much as you guys) but that was definitely a very sweet story and a high point for the show with character and storytelling sincerity. Like I said, I'm not at "it would be a crime if it doesn't get awards" level or anything but well done, Magicians. An episode I'd be comfortable recommending to people as something beyond "enjoyable trash." I genuinely didn't think you were capable of that. I definitely assume Quentin's (and I guess Elliot's, really) grandchildren are around somewhere. And yeah, it was genuinely hilarious at the bizarre timing of the answer on Q's leanings. I'm fairly indifferent to Felicia Day. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 08:19 on Feb 9, 2018 |
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Feb 9, 2018 08:15
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Quentin appeared to fall in love with both the one woman he encountered for decades and the one man. So I think we confirmed he's bisexual... or just very lonely. I don't think that really gives any real signal to who he wants to end up with forever or anything. The actually kind of interesting thing that I assume that storyline did was that it presumably gave Quentin the time to get over Alice. He's lived a lifetime and loved and lost 2 partners since the last time Alice awkwardly interacted with him. So in theory it should be very different when they cross paths again. Assuming she's not dead or a demon or something.
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Feb 20, 2018 20:15
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Josh was being kind of a dick and ignoring the bigger issue for his feelings, but like it was a sympathetic thing because everyone else are huge dicks. But also Josh is just kind of the guy they found in Fillory who ditched them when they were facing danger and they've had a lot to deal with since. But as was pointed out Julia actually did call him back and Josh didn't call her back. So really it was about Josh wanting to be one of the cool kids more than him actually being upset that everyone was being a dick to him. So everyone is a dick. And Julia's the best even though she's been raped by demons and mind raped by the school.
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Mar 9, 2018 20:35
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Queen and Bowie are timeless. They weren't in their primes during my formative years but I still loved (and love) their music. Its like saying they wouldn't like Elvis or the Beatles. Maybe they wouldn't all but some kids will always find the legends. And storywise the plot was that Josh and Kady were into Bowie and Quentin just stuck the lyrics into everyone's heads.
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Mar 9, 2018 22:26
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It's 100% because they just found Alice in the library after she refused to help them and she refuses to tell them what she was doing there. Quentin doesn't trust her for good reason. I actually think its an interesting side affect of the Mossiac that I was hoping would come into play. Quentin's had enough time to love and lose and love and lose that he's over the drama with Alice.
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Mar 10, 2018 18:19
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