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Blazing Ownager posted:I can't help but understand what you're saying. I on the other hand was going "I'm really not in the mood for a full on musical right now, but I want to catch up" was pleasantly meant with an episode that had a couple songs in it but was decidedly not a musical. Yeah, that was kind of my take too. I'm not a big fan of "musical episodes" and was dreading the standard forced gimmick episode. So the fact that they actually didn't do that and just had a couple of numbers with a purpose actually was a huge relief to me and probably made me like the episode more.
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Mar 11, 2018 22:28
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I sorta assumed that the idea of them being "defenseless" was kind of just an exaggeration from history of being helpless. They've been oppressed and brutalized before so they fear it happening again. Even if they've got the power to fight it they still worry it will never be enough. There's real world examples of what I'm thinking but I feel weird drawing those comparisons. But I guess it makes sense that their powers used for self might be more limited than their deal powers. Plus if they can be decapitated and mutilated it means even with magic they can get killed by a sword or gun. And the queen just made a deal that made an entire land of people they're occupying able to see them. So that probably will have repercussions.
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Mar 17, 2018 05:05
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Yeah, I still don't love it like others do but it's learned to lean hard into the absurd and meta and smarmy (over the manic depression that was so much of the first season+) and that's produced some really great gags.
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Mar 18, 2018 21:38
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I feel like Quentin's really only less of a dick now because he's finally living out his dream of being the leader of a heroic quest. If he was dealing with Fillory politics like Elliot and Margo or just trying to better some random people's (elves) lives like Julia he'd still be a whiny dick. Although its possible that his long life with Elliot chilled him out. The fact that they happened together makes it hard to figure where to draw the line between the two things. Either way he was a massive dick in the first two seasons because he had a massive inferiority complex, especially as it relates to Julia. Now he's finally at some kind of satisfied peace so he's chilling out.
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Mar 26, 2018 22:07
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Aexo posted:I think Q was always just a social outcast, along with his diagnosed mental illness(es) just always felt like an outsider. Getting into BB's was his catharsis. Julia was always the cool kid and now that Q has something she doesn't that's why he was a dick to her. But I think everyone is learning they need each other to make it, so the dickishness has died down. I'm trying to keep a fair mind about him. Like I really do think he stayed a dick way past the point he was "accepted" with the cool kids of Elliot and Margo and his treatment of Julia passed that point and was about how he had always felt inferior/jealous/unrequited about Julia. And that his turn around is tied to him literally finally becoming the hero of his very own Fillory book like he always dreamed and not any kind of personal growth or anything. But that doesn't mean that he can't just be changing for the better regardless of how it happened. And maybe all this stuff, including the Mosiac life, is getting him there.
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Mar 26, 2018 22:28
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Yeah I'm kind of assuming that Underworld Penny is tweaking out on ambrosia cupcakes or whatever which is why they can't connect with him. Then they'll find him somewhere along the line and he'll not recognize them or something. So yeah, new Penny is there to hold his place and create some new drama for Kady and Julia. But with the season almost over its probably all theoretical at this stage.
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Mar 30, 2018 03:27
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Aexo posted:Is "the tower at the end of the world" or whatever a nod to the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy? I mean, Magicians is obviously heavily referential to other stuff but "___ at the end of the universe" isn't really an unexplored idea.
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Apr 1, 2018 03:04
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I think the "your world is more messed up" was just a cute bit of political/social commentary. He wasn't commenting on some kind of shocking political unrest. It was a mass shooting. There's an argument to be made for the need for magic in like Fillory where they were completely dependent on it and everything is going to poo poo without it. I don't think that's happening on Earth. There's certainly individuals and companies that are falling apart because they were dependent on magic like that fairy family or Alice's parents. But we've been shown nothing to suggest that that's as wide spread and systematically problematic as Fillory's problems. There's also probably an argument you could make that since supernatural creatures still have magic than humans need it to protect themselves. The alternate Earth where The Beast murders everyone is a pretty good case of that (although the Beast apparently murders everyone in EVERY timeline expect this one so that undercuts it a bit). But its pretty clear that at the core of it they're doing this for selfish reasons and because they feel they personally "need" magic the same way they felt they needed it before it was gone. That's been the most consistent theme of the show.
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Apr 1, 2018 21:22
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Alhazred posted:So far the magical creatures has only attacked when provoked. Even the Beast didn't show up until they started messing around with that forbidden ritual. But he wasn't provoked, was he? My memory of it isn't great but wasn't the "forbidden spell" just what opened the door that let the Beast in? And he responded to them poking their heads around other dimensions by coming to slaughter them. Plus he had been in Penny's head for years trying to get him and all the travelers to kill themselves so they couldn't gently caress with him. And of course he was murdering them in every timeline. The Beast was a bad guy. At best you could argue that if the Earth kids didn't have magic they would have been off his radar and non-threats, but the Beast was kind of shown to be a psychopath and didn't Quentin Beast say he was just killing people for fun?
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Apr 1, 2018 22:31
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GreenNight posted:I don't see that at all. Honestly, its debatable. Its hard to ignore the part where Quentin has dreamed his entire life of living this quest and being this hero. Its not even really about magic to Quentin, its about this childhood fantasy that got all wound up in his insecurity and depression and he's finally getting what he wants. We can interpret this whole thing as Quentin choosing the needs of the many over the needs of him and his father... but its hard to ignore that he's definitely getting something hugely personally satisfying out of this even beyond just the magic. Julia, Elliot, and Margo have definitely grown and aren't acting selfishly anymore. And Kady and Penny have been sacrificing for each other for awhile (which is still sorta selfish but also not, its complicated). Alice is going the wrong way. Quentin? I really don't know. I'm skeptical.
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Apr 2, 2018 21:22
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I'll just join the chorus that I didn't like that and it left me cold on the show. But it also isn't a huge surprise and I never really turned to corner from "entertaining garbage" to "great show" like many of you did so its just "eh, its sometimes garbage but its entertaining enough that I'll probably come back." The "we need two sets of keys/the door consumed the keys" thing seemed to be resolved by Quentin using the magic Alice game him to make the deal with the jailor to open the door. They never needed to use the keys to get in so they didn't have to worry about them getting "consumed." It was all very sloppy and rushed and kind of pointless, IMO. And wow, Kady gets cursed to deal drugs? This show really hates her. And at this stage I kind of think OG Penny is gone and eating the cupcakes was supposed to be him accepting he's dead and New Penny joining the key link was supposed to be closure. Which is bad writing but I'm just gonna assume that until OG Penny re-emerges, if he re-emerges. That way I'm not sitting here waiting on resolution that may never come.
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Apr 6, 2018 22:30
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I meant Julia. That's my bad. The Kady thing was just me not paying enough attention. But kinda just further emphasizes me "Why does this show hate Kady so much?" question.
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Apr 6, 2018 23:15
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The Fairy Queen arch was... I dunno. I was never terribly invested in her personal growth, the fate of the faeries, or any of that. Julia's effort to save the enslaved ones and some of Fen's anger and resentment, aside. I don't know. The whole thing just fell flat and felt like an afterthought to me. A means to get Whatsherface magiced up and into the castle for that WTF ending. It's probably more a testament to US gun culture and Hollywood violence but I've always thought in fantasy stuff that someone should just Rambo up with conventional weapons just in case. As long as it doesn't directly impede on you why not? If nothing else a big rear end shotgun should slow some bad guys down. Like I vaguely recall Buffy TVS having the day saved with a gun once and then never addressing it again. But also I get it's a tonal thing and it doesn't really bother me.
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Apr 7, 2018 21:06
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Monster turned into a million pieces. The guys are lucky they don't play by Evil Dead rules. It's just tough to fit a wood mulcher into the trunk of their car. But Supernatural scratches that "why don't you just use a ______?" itch I have. Like the first episode basically opens with "ghosts are hurt by salt so we loaded shotgun shells with rocksalt so we could shoot them."
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Apr 8, 2018 19:54
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Ok? As I said, I recognize its a tonal thing. Supernatural is a show about "regular guys" killing monsters so there's a lot of "regular guy" reasoning and approaches to what they do like shooting the thing with a big gun. Magicians is a show about depressed/self absorbed people finding purpose and peace in their life through magic and fantasy so naturally fantasy and magic is their go to option for stuff. Buffy was a show about teenagers juggling monster hunting with hormones and learning to make the right life choices so its kind of understandable why they didn't just keep a stockpile of assault rifles in the high school library. Angel was a "grown up" version of Buffy that dealt with more big picture, dark themes so it makes sense that at least one character decided to strap up because all things being equal guns are more effective than swords. As I said, I don't REALLY expect Magicians or Buffy to start going all John Wick on things. I get that that's not the shows they are.
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Apr 8, 2018 20:27
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Yeah, I just wanted to clarify that I wasn't actually criticizing Magicians about the gun thing or the Supernatural comparison. Different strokes.
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Apr 8, 2018 20:36
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Yeah, it was a weird deal. Like what happens if someone somewhere else entirely completely disconnected from Whatsherface decides to hunt fairies? Does a magic shield pop up because one person one time cut a deal for all non-faery people or does Whatsherface get punished for not policing the entire universe? Fairy rules seem dumb.
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Apr 8, 2018 22:38
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Blazing Ownager posted:It stopped being that (or watchable) when Bobby died and for the next like 5 seasons was an endless repeat of torture, secrets, more torture, betrayal, repeat with the worst villains ever. Its obviously escalated over 13 years and gotten more than a little out of control, but like we still get really basic real world solutions like "set the possessed plush dinosaur on fire" or "toss a vampire into a wood chipper." Plus "Do I get to use the grenade launcher on this one finally?" But I mean, yeah, its hard to hang onto your "core" after a decade or so of rising stakes and plot degradation.
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Apr 9, 2018 23:15
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It took me a moment to get the joke but its pretty funny once i did.
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Jul 28, 2018 23:06
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Yeah, Q had grandkids that it was implied Elliot never met and that was when Jane was a kid. And Fen and Josh are overthrown like 40 years later or something? So grandkid would make sense. But it also would make him and Elliot being hot for each other kind of creepy in a "banging your step granddad" way. P.S. I just caught up on the show after skipping last season and I was really impressed how they made me not only not hate Quentin but actually feel really bad when he died and emotional about all the people grieving him. Also Fen is amazing and so was that episode where Margo trips on Lizard sweat and Kady just shows up to show off in her subconscious musical numbers.
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Jan 31, 2020 16:31
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I think it was pretty obvious Margo was lying about not caring that Fen and Josh slept together. What with her going into a rage and murdering Fen and then filled with guilt confessing that she didn't actually save them. I'm also not sure Josh sleeping with Fen qualifies as "cheating" given the whole "we never heard from Margo again after she left to go have sex with some magic shaman douche to get his power to save Elliot and magic on another world" context of it. But that's for Josh and Margo to work out.
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Feb 2, 2020 12:01
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Yeah it was a storytelling trick. They didn't tell us Kady was disguised as Mayakovsky's daughter so you're meant to assume they agreed to the deal and someone lost their shade or was gonna. Then you get the reveal of Kady and you realize that they told Mayakovsky's daughter to go screw herself and came up with their own plan. They were just being cute with the storytelling.
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Feb 24, 2020 17:33
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I always liked Penny and Julia. Yes, they were both being assholes but everyone was an rear end in a top hat and both had like heaping piles of poo poo laid on them. Julia was being victimized 7 different ways and Penny was barely trying to stay sane and alive, so they were kind of dicks. I was invested in their journeys and struggles and pulling for them to get to a place where they could ask for help and heal. I don't like Penny 23 though. I have no history with him and I feel like he's some kind of imposter. I'm glad Julia dumped him. The whole relationship was weird.
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Feb 24, 2020 18:30
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Loucks posted:It has been a while since I watched the early seasons, but didn’t Penny have the Beast in his head harassing him for basically all his life? Having dealt with chronic pain that lasted years before, I sort of feel him. That sort of unrelenting torment tends to result in dickish behavior and goes a long way toward explaining his constant exasperation with everything. Yeah. Not to mention like everyone else's poo poo in his head including like racist poo poo and God knows what. It was repeatedly said how Penny basically had spent his whole life self medicating and pushing people away just to keep voices out of his head. And that's before we got to "the Beast was trying to get him to kill himself." Khanstant posted:I think the Beast was relatively recent after coming to Brakebills, but he might've had to struggle with passive mind-shouting his whole life? I think Penny said he had heard the voice his whole life. It just amped up around the time of Brakebills and when the moment of truth was coming.
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Feb 24, 2020 19:02
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Thinking back to that its funny that Julia wasn't screwed over by "standardized testing" but rather because Jane and Fogg just genuinely hosed her over. To the show's credit I've always appreciated that Dean Fogg felt like poo poo about that and kept going out of his way to try and make it up to her and protect her from further poo poo. I still stand by the opinion that Quentin was a garbage friend and lovely person for ignoring her and telling her she wasn't good enough. She sucked too at times but Quentin could have avoided a lot of it if he had been a better friend. And again, I'm glad when they finally made up they dealt with that double sided responsabilty of their falling out.
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Feb 24, 2020 19:22
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It never should have got there. But again, credit to the show and Quentin that he eventually figured that out and took his part of the responsibility. Its a testament to his character and the show that by the time he died I not only didn't hate him but actually felt bad.
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Feb 24, 2020 19:31
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Alhazred posted:Julia made him think he was mentally ill again and forced him to relive a traumatic experience, but then again Quentin was too busy with magic school to hang with her so I guess he had it coming. I never said he had it coming, nor did I deny that it was a terrible thing to do. I said Quentin took his part in the responsibility, because obviously Julia had a part in it too. But Quentin ignored his best friend who had helped him through his own troubles when he knew she was going through a terrible thing and was in a low place herself and berated her that she's not special and was just jealous of him. Quentin was a loving prick. Then Julia was a loving prick and escalated poo poo. Dual responsibility.
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Feb 24, 2020 20:23
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Alhazred posted:Julia violated Quentin, Quentin ignored Julia. Those two things are not comparable at all. There is no dual responsibility here. I'm not minimizing Julia's actions. What Julia did was terrible and the character and show registered that immediately and showed Julia working through her dual guilt and anger while in rehab. But before any of that happened we watched like half a season of Quentin being a self absorbed, dismissive, petty dick and that's why I didn't like him. And to both character's credits when they finally made up they both apologized for their parts and didn't get hung up on petty arguments of who was more to blame or who hurt who more. Which was mature growth for both characters.
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Feb 24, 2020 20:34
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Khanstant posted:As for Julia, I actually lost sight of why she's giving a poo poo about Fillory, just part of grieving Q's loss? She had a great stabbing pose, though. Still, of all people, would've expected her to be on top of body disposal. She's in a weird kind of place where she's doing what Quentin was always doing early on and looking for fulfillment in a heroic story adventure instead of life, and that's probably not a coincidence.
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Mar 2, 2020 21:57
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To be honest this season has felt a bit directionless. Past seasons have kind of come together in the end so I wasn't thinking too much about it, but it is sort of a "so, like... ok, the Dark King in Fillory and Julia's tagging along to stay busy and NotPenny and Alice are trying to fix magic again and do something with a magic plant Quentin knew about for mysterious reasons and Kady's.... somewhere... i guess dealing with hedge tattoos? And Zelda is around and the Library is I dunno and RealPenny has just moved on... I guess?" It has the feel of a season that ran out its main ideas and isn't quite sure where its going now.
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Mar 3, 2020 19:43
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The weirdest thing about society basically telling me that I should draw the shades, not put on pants, eat all non-perishable junk, and play video games all day is that my loved ones somehow think now is the time I'm resisting that advice.
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Mar 14, 2020 22:42
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Oh my god, coronavirus is going to be my savior... I hadn't even realized...
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Mar 14, 2020 23:07
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They've always kind of been dismissive and condescending to Fen so I was fine with that finally coming home to rest. Fen was only part of the group because of Elliot being forced to marry her and while he was briefly cool with her he basically stopped caring about her at all once his poo poo hit the fan. Josh and Margo are the only ones who have ever seemed to have any kind of relationship with her and Margo isn't the most welcoming person. And she tried to kill Fen twice. Plus I just liked the idea of Fen sticking up for Fillory vs the humans who always show up to gently caress everything up and then just leave the place behind and now wanted to blow it up. Children of Earth are dicks.
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Mar 22, 2020 22:14
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