The Magicians: "They just slapped each other over and over, for hours"

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > The Magicians: "They just slapped each other over and over, for hours"

Cast Iron Brick: Apr 24, 2008

The Magicians trilogy is my favorite book series. It was incredibly important to me in helping deal with my bipolar depression. While I feel like the third book kind of runs out of steam and doesn't quite fit with the other books thematically, I have never related more to a character than Quentin, for better or for worse.

I'm expecting a bad show from Syfy so we'll see how it goes.

# ¿ Dec 17, 2015 02:12

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 09:19

Cast Iron Brick: Apr 24, 2008

I'm half way through the pilot episode right now.

The way the interview scene happened is upsetting. The entire point of the scene in the books is to establish the subtle, glitchy way that magic works. Quentin making a magical Harry Potter card tornado kind of goes against that in a n intentional way.

That said, they seem to be handling the depression angle reasonably well so I'll probably keep watching. But it definitely feels like my favorite book s being filtered through a SyFy show.

E: also everyone is a sexy badass. It's an obvious choice for TV, but it feels kind of hollow when the series was established to be about broken, ugly people being given the opportunity to do miracles.

E2: Oh cool, they've added in some additional sexual violence. That always makes your show more serious and edgy.

Cast Iron Brick fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Dec 17, 2015

# ¿ Dec 17, 2015 16:32

Cast Iron Brick: Apr 24, 2008

Max posted:

In the book, it starts subtle and glitchy but doesn't it end with him getting frustrated and pulling a flaming sword out of thin air?

It does. However, we spend a lot of time watching them at school to establish just how intricate magic is. That way, it's an immense payoff once they pull off huge acts of magic.

# ¿ Dec 17, 2015 16:47

Cast Iron Brick: Apr 24, 2008

I don't doubt it'll be a good show for SyFy standards, I'm just salty about a source material so important to me being used to make an appealing TV show.

# ¿ Dec 18, 2015 02:37

Cast Iron Brick: Apr 24, 2008

Escape Addict posted:

The Harry Potter movies and the Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell miniseries were adapted much more faithfully--like 80%-90% word-for-word with very few changes. Lev Grossman is so flattered that somebody adapted his books that he's become too much of an apologist for them.

I agree wholeheartedly that this series is suffering from time compression. Julia's ordeal seems greatly minimized in this adaptation; she's basically introduced into the safehouse scene without ever having to discover it for herself. Her life is supposed to be a massive downward spiral for months, getting worse and worse, until she is on a bunch of psych meds and at the brink of giving up the idea of magic entirely before she discovers the hedge magicians. It's strange how her mental health issues were transplanted onto Quentin in the tv series, and Quentin's white-sparks-from-fingertips were transplanted onto Julia. It's also super weird that hedge magicians initiate each other by attempting to rape newbies in bathrooms until their powers manifest--that ain't in the books.

Badass telepath Penny is a screenwriter's crutch. The psychic voices he hears are the screenwriter's stage directions telling him what to do next to advance the plot. In the books, Penny has no psychic powers, and is basically a goon, which is way funnier. Also this version of Alice is a high-strung bitch version of Hermoine, rather than the painfully shy traumatized girl in the books.

The actor who plays Quentin does a good job, and so does the actor who plays Eliot. It's too bad Quentin is portrayed as kind of dumb in this adaptation; he's supposed to be a masochistic overachiever who needs to prove he's smarter than everybody else. That's why he, Alice, and Penny get bumped up a year.

I loved the Beast scene; just wished it could have gone on for longer. In the books, it's supposed to have lasted for an agonizing amount of time, and The Beast is supposed to have done more weird poo poo (which will make sense later) like smashing the clocks in the room.

I'm curious to watch the entire series and see how it all turns out.

You are 100% correct and said all of it better than I could.

What else are you reading right now?

# ¿ Dec 18, 2015 21:51

Cast Iron Brick: Apr 24, 2008

parasyte posted:

There's a lot changed from the books but that wasn't one of the changes! They did eliminate most of the rest of the interview leading up to Quentin being frustrated enough that he was able to unleash the magical Harry Potter tornado. That's okay enough really, they're going for a faster pace than the novels. It feels much too fast and I hope they slow it down, but a subtle coin trick and a bunch of random tasks he's asked to perform aren't bad cuts to make.

I know the scene ends in the card house being stacked together. My issue was with the overblown marvel of watching this card tornado occur and Fogg looks on like he's seen the second coming. They also ommited the beginning where Quentin is doing card magic and accidentally doing actual magic in tiny, incremental bits.

The Magicians plays very heavily on the tone with which it describes how magic works. I don't think the TV show is much interested in preserving this, which is probably what bugs me the most.

# ¿ Dec 19, 2015 01:39

Cast Iron Brick: Apr 24, 2008

So episode two makes The Beast scene bad retroactively. The kids team up and push the beast out with the power of friendship.

Man, this show is making me sad.

# ¿ Jan 26, 2016 06:11

Cast Iron Brick: Apr 24, 2008

Mouse Dresser posted:

Elliot is the best part of this series, it's really perfect casting.

I was unsure on Quentin and Julia, but I am warming up to them. The actress who plays Alice is good, but I don't think she's right. Was Alice blonde in the books? Also, you can't have Margo/Janet criticize Alice's clothes when she is basically a loving hipster model. I pictured someone who dresses frumpier, or at least doesn't give enough of a poo poo to wear cool accessories and high heels.

Looking forward to the scene where Alice pulls down her ponytail and puts on contacts to become THE PRETTIEST GIRL IN SCHOOL :suicide:

# ¿ Jan 27, 2016 01:31

Cast Iron Brick: Apr 24, 2008

Did... Did they make Elliott straight?

# ¿ Feb 2, 2016 03:38

Cast Iron Brick: Apr 24, 2008

Oh, okay.

This episode seems far better paced than before. I'm curious who's going to get interdimensional travel since Penny is psychic now.

E: so that's how.

While I have more confidence from this episode, the choice to make everyone pretty and put together makes a lot of the beats not land as well.

Julia not being a burnout junky and instead just kind of being handed her hedgewitchdom makes her plea to Quentin seem really flat. Sure there was talk of turning tricks for spells, but everyone in the safe house was wearing designer suits and tops. It feels like every angle of this thing was taken in name only.

Cast Iron Brick fucked around with this message at 04:10 on Feb 2, 2016

# ¿ Feb 2, 2016 03:45

Cast Iron Brick: Apr 24, 2008

Mouse Dresser posted:

Well, they did show Julia doing a spell at the ATM that suddenly dispenses a lot of money. So that explains the designer clothes.

Well, they actually have this scene in the books, but it's used thematically in a very different place to much better effect.

Come to think of it, this statement is also my description of the entire show so far.

# ¿ Feb 3, 2016 03:25

Cast Iron Brick: Apr 24, 2008

STAC Goat posted:

My only major complaint at the moment is I don't like Quentin at all, and that's kind of a problem since he's the main character. His constant condescending dismissal of Julia is a huge part of that, but I guess at least he kind of realized he was a dick later. But it also doesn't help that he seems to be the only person on the show who I'm not convinced can do magic.

You're supposed to hate Quentin, or at least empathize with his flaws if you also have experience with manic depression. You're right though, he's being depicted as being somewhat incompetent

# ¿ Feb 4, 2016 02:55

Cast Iron Brick: Apr 24, 2008

Harrow posted:

I think the fact that I loved the books is keeping me from watching this, and hearing about how quickly it's tearing through the first book's plot feels like it's validating my decision. Other people who liked the books: is it worth a shot regardless?

It has some good moments realizing parts of the book. If you want to see some decent-ish fan fiction of the books with okay production value it's worth watching.

Or hate-watching.

# ¿ Feb 4, 2016 19:40

Cast Iron Brick: Apr 24, 2008

Emerson Cod posted:

I've been liking most of the scenes that don't involve the core plot from the series. Penny teleporting to Japan and the book hunt scene were fun and show that the writers can work well with the world. With the main story, a lot of the changes feel arbitrary. Considering most of the books were from Quentin's perspective they probably wanted to give the other characters more to do earlier on, I guess.

It reminds me a lot of Game of Thrones. Original scenes in that show that support the established universe tend to be really good. But when they divert directly from the books, their changes are almost always less clever, louder, and work to less effect. This adaptation seems to follow that same guide.

# ¿ Feb 5, 2016 16:48

Cast Iron Brick: Apr 24, 2008

I don't think the "Magic is a drug" line is meant to be a literal allegory like in Buffy. It's more an effect of power and purpose being the ultimate goal of everyone, and that's intoxicating.

Again, these books are largely about dealing with depression. Magic represents controllable competency. The idea the the world really does have this little trick that makes you matter and gives you the ability to actually achieve your goals. This is a very enticing thing to an audience that often has major life consequences because they cannot muster up the will to attempt anything on a given day.

The magic=drug connection is the laziest and cheapest interpretation to pull from the material.

# ¿ Feb 7, 2016 17:39

Cast Iron Brick: Apr 24, 2008

gohmak posted:

I thought the books loving was kind of funny?

That was great!

# ¿ Feb 7, 2016 18:44

Cast Iron Brick: Apr 24, 2008

WarLocke posted:

Yeah the book mating scene was hilarious. I think Eliot's reaction took it over the top.

Am I misremembering that book-Eliot was described as having some sort of mouth/jaw deformity?

Yeah, book Elliot is notably kind of ugly.

# ¿ Feb 7, 2016 19:14

Cast Iron Brick: Apr 24, 2008

geeves posted:

I don't recall that. I do recall the out-of-nowhere gay D/s scene that cleverly is never mentioned again but a interesting character trait though.

The Magicians by Lev Grossman posted:

There was something off about Eliot’s face. His posture was very straight, but his mouth was twisted to one side, in a permanent half grimace that revealed a nest of teeth sticking both in and out at improbable angles. He looked like a child who had been slightly misdelivered, with some subpar forceps handling by the attending. But despite his odd appearance...

# ¿ Feb 9, 2016 02:35

Cast Iron Brick: Apr 24, 2008

It's apparent that this adaptation really doesn't concern itself with anything but the broadest strokes of the books and even then, only when it fits their sexy dubstep Harry Potter for cool kids.

That's fine though. That's how this poo poo always works. What bothers me more is how on board Grossman is with the show. Sure, he gave his briefing about the nature of the adaptation, but the previous poster was right when they described Grossman as being overly flattered about the show. It shits on important decisions on Grossman's part and he just says thank you.

That's good business sense of course, but there is a way to distinguish your work in the face of its adaptation. Look at how Jim Butcher talks about the SyFy Dresden Files. He doesn't defend the changes but he's still entirely professional.

# ¿ Feb 11, 2016 06:41

Cast Iron Brick: Apr 24, 2008

IRQ posted:

Enjoying sci-fi TV must be really hard/hilarious if you live in Vancouver.

Enjoying any show set in a major city is hard if you live in Vancouver.

# ¿ Feb 14, 2016 01:05

Cast Iron Brick: Apr 24, 2008

Vitamin P posted:

Honest question: am I meant to like Quentin at this point in the story?

No. He's a bipolar narcissist with a superiority complex who can't take responsibility for his own actions.

He has a lot of growing up to do. Not sure if the show is going to do that.

# ¿ Feb 16, 2016 23:35

Cast Iron Brick: Apr 24, 2008

Oroborus posted:

The wethers game was a bit confusing, was it better explained in the books? Why did Quintin win suddenly by casting a spell he needed the blond girl to stop?

No. It's meant to be and described as convoluted and fuddy. It's only ever used as a a thing for Quentin to mull through during his depression.

# ¿ Feb 17, 2016 16:23

Cast Iron Brick: Apr 24, 2008

This show seems like it was adapted via the world's worst game of telephone.

The energy plot line here is the weirdest thing. The third book explicitly goes into how managing power works. The show decided to swap that out with an explanation of "Emotions! Or something?"

It's just continually confounding that they focus on fringe details and original plotlines that go nowhere while skipping the major thematics of the series.

Also to anyone else who hate watches this and loves the books: any good book recommendations along these lines? I'm half way through Library at Mount Char and enjoying it quite a bit.

Cast Iron Brick fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Feb 18, 2016

# ¿ Feb 18, 2016 20:30

Cast Iron Brick: Apr 24, 2008

gohmak posted:

As a non book reader this show is very enjoyable and you book readers are more insufferable than ASOIAF.

Naw, those fans are happier. They got three good seasons!

# ¿ Feb 21, 2016 19:29

Cast Iron Brick: Apr 24, 2008

Oh man! Can you believe how sexy this Harry Potter show is? This definitely isn't like Narnia.

gently caress me. The naked secret magic thing feels clunkier than the foxes loving.

# ¿ Feb 23, 2016 20:48

Cast Iron Brick: Apr 24, 2008

I love how the show gives every achievement Julia made in the books to a man who can just hand her the answers.

Julia , lazy rape scene aside, is an actual strong female character. The show has adapted one man in one case and created another man whole-cloth in the other in order to take away any agency her character has.

But no, they've been saying from the start they're not going to shy away from Renard rape. Wouldn't want to change important material like that. :rolleyes:

# ¿ Mar 22, 2016 22:33

Cast Iron Brick: Apr 24, 2008

I'm much happier now that they've conceded that the show is a different loop from the books.

# ¿ Apr 5, 2016 16:53

Cast Iron Brick: Apr 24, 2008

We don't have to see the reset button. Jane doesn't say the book is the only scenario where they succeeded, it's just the best one.

The show is clearly not the best possible scenario.

# ¿ Apr 5, 2016 19:06

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 09:19

Cast Iron Brick: Apr 24, 2008

Because the show runners worked on Supernatural with her.

By the way I still watch this show, but it's bad.

# ¿ Nov 14, 2017 23:24

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > The Magicians: "They just slapped each other over and over, for hours"