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Mr. Nice! posted:They had just got back and a lot of people probably hadn't spoke about the horrors they saw yet. It's not like they had been back for weeks. The NW comes back with lots of casualities and some thousands opf wildlings and nobody had the idea of asking "WTF happened out there?". They did had time to set up the stabbing, Im inclined to believe there was more than enough time to ask Jon or any of the survivors about what they saw. Phenotype posted:I'm talking about all the pushback and bad feelings, both in the book and in the show, from Jon letting the Wildlings settle the north, which was certainly the driving force behind the mutiny. I think it would have been much stronger if Alliser or some of the other Watchmen supported Jon's plan and showed it some grudging acceptance. It was frustrating to me that, aside from Sam and a few of Jon's buddies, the Night Watch seemed so hostile to the idea of allying with the Wildlings. Even before Hardhome, there were plenty of Watchmen to tell the tale of the zombie army at the Fist of the First Men. It seems implausible that basically none of them could see the wisdom in working with the wildlings against a foe like that, and Alliser would have been a good example of crusty and set-in-his-ways, but still smart and practical enough to listen to reason. Yes, Im agreeing with you: after what happened in Hardome (or "Hardhome" whatever) there is clearly a solid reason for allying with the wildlings, that and the fact the NW is down to less than 100 people and cant defend the Wall by itself. And yet nobody in the NW seems to realize this, or the problem with killing the leader who broke that alliance right after letting the wildlings inside the Walls. Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Dec 22, 2015 |
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Dec 22, 2015 19:15
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Elias_Maluco posted:The NW comes back with lots of casualities and some thousands opf wildlings and nobody had the idea of asking "WTF happened out there?". They did had time to set up the stabbing, Im inclined to believe there was more than enough time to ask Jon or any of the survivors about what they saw. The conspirators didn't give a gently caress about what happened while he was gone.
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Dec 22, 2015 19:18
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Now that I think about it, the conspirators would likely just think that the NW that was at Hardhome were Jon loyalists and couldn't be trusted anyway.
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Dec 22, 2015 19:34
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Mr. Nice! posted:The conspirators didn't give a gently caress about what happened while he was gone. Yeah, they dont. And they dont seems to be giving any fucks about what to do about the 5000 wildlings camping on their backyard either. It just that it seems to me that they probably would care.
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Dec 22, 2015 19:34
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Is it 100 NW total or just at Castle Black? Because 100 spread across three castles is a pretty pitiful number
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Dec 22, 2015 19:44
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Elias_Maluco posted:The NW comes back with lots of casualities and some thousands opf wildlings and nobody had the idea of asking "WTF happened out there?". They did had time to set up the stabbing, Im inclined to believe there was more than enough time to ask Jon or any of the survivors about what they saw. And Alliser is the guy they sent to King's Landing with the moving wight hand.
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Dec 22, 2015 19:44
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 if you don't think the FIRST thing every single person who was at Hardhome would do when arriving at Castle Black is immediately tell everyone "HEY WE GOT ATTACKED BY HUNDREDS OF UNDEAD CREATURES LED BY WHITE WALKER COMMANDERS AND THEN ONE OF THEM LITERALLY RAISED AN ARMY OUT OF OUR DEAD HOLY loving poo poo"Like you seriously expect a single person to be able to keep that to themselves for any length of time at all?
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Dec 22, 2015 19:49
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Elias_Maluco posted:Yeah, they dont. And they dont seems to be giving any fucks about what to do about the 5000 wildlings camping on their backyard either.
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Dec 22, 2015 20:07
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Lycus posted:Raven: "Hey, Warden of the North Roose Bolton, Stannis is dead, could use your army in the Gift to kill these Wildlings, stat. Raven "gently caress you. Roose Bolton" speshl guy posted:Is it 100 NW total or just at Castle Black? Because 100 spread across three castles is a pretty pitiful number I might be wrong about this, but I remember they talking about it after the attack.
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Dec 22, 2015 20:25
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Even if Roose was gave a poo poo (he wouldn't) and set out immediately in the oncoming winter to kill the Wildlings, they would have plenty of time to kill the remaining NW. I guess maybe the idea that Roose will eventually avenge you will help while a giant mashes your torso into paste, so there's that.
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Dec 22, 2015 20:34
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Elias_Maluco posted:Yeah, they dont. And they dont seems to be giving any fucks about what to do about the 5000 wildlings camping on their backyard either. Something tells me the writers are going to completely forget that their are only ~100 Night's Watchmen left and all of the Wildlings are going to be locked up next season facing deportation. (Until Zombie Jon rescues them)
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Dec 22, 2015 20:52
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1-800-DOCTORB posted:Something tells me the writers are going to completely forget that their are only ~100 Night's Watchmen left and all of the Wildlings are going to be locked up next season facing deportation. (Until Zombie Jon rescues them) They're not in Castle Black, though, they went through it. And I do think Roose would care about thousands of Wildlings inside his neck of the kingdoms. The Widlings wouldn't care enough about Jon to avenge him when they hear of the assassination, they'd shrug and go south.
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Dec 22, 2015 21:37
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Lycus posted:They're not in Castle Black, though, they went through it. They are still there, they had just arrived when Jon was murdered. I bet they would not miss the opportunity to get a sweet revenge on the NW after all those centuries of hate and genocide, now that the alliance is broken. And also pillage Castle Black. As for Bolton, winter is coming and the wildlings are very numerous, so he I guess he would prefer to stay behind the walls of Winterfell. Maybe he will send Ramsay with 20 good men.
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Dec 22, 2015 21:55
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There's no blizzard right now, Stannis took care of it. Good ol' Stannis. And whether or not they'd immediately take a jaunt back to Castle Black, they're going to head toward Winterfell either way, raiding villages and whatnot. They're inevitably Roose's problem. And they'd be easy pickings for Bolton regulars, mostly starving civilians and pitifully armed. And killing a Wildling "army" would prove his Warden cred to Northerners in a way that he likes better than Ramsey's terror. Lycus fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Dec 22, 2015 |
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Dec 22, 2015 22:04
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Lycus posted:There's no blizzard right now, Stannis took care of it. Good ol' Stannis. And whether or not they'd immediately take a jaunt back to Castle Black, they're going to head toward Winterfell either way, raiding villages and whatnot. They're inevitably Roose's problem. And they'd be easy pickings for Bolton regulars, mostly starving civilians and pitifully armed. Why would they have to take a jaunt back to Castle Black? They are there yet, they just arrived there. Besides, the plan was that they were going to stay and help to man the walls, not just pass through and go to The Gift, if I remember correctly. And now that the guy who convinced then to do it was killed by his own people, because of that deal, they will probably change the plans back to "go as far south as we can" and kill the whole NW before they can ask for help, no sense in leaving an enemy behind and they can use whatever they can find in Castle Black to equip themselves.
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Dec 22, 2015 22:24
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Castle Black and the rest of the fortifications on the Wall are specifically designed to be virtually undefended from the south to prevent them being held against the kingdom, so once people are on the south side taking them is pretty simple and certainly not a situation where 100 dudes are going to stand a chance against thousands, if if they are better equipped. Even if half the wildlings decided to gently caress off immediately, the remaining ones would have little trouble wiping the watch.
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Dec 22, 2015 22:27
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They left out Strong Belwas and the Manderlys What a bad
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Dec 22, 2015 22:30
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Elias_Maluco posted:Why would they have to take a jaunt back to Castle Black? They are there yet, they just arrived there. Besides, the plan was that they were going to stay and help to man the walls, not just pass through and go to The Gift, if I remember correctly. They went through Castle Black to settle the villages of the Gift. The scene showed them going in and out. I don't remember a scene showing Wildlings in Castle Black in the finale. I don't think "man the Wall castles" was a thing in the show, for the Wildlings or Stannis's men. And again, they're gonna go south either way, whether they wipe out the Watch first or not. Either way, they're Roose's problem. Lycus fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Dec 22, 2015 |
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Dec 22, 2015 22:32
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El Hefe posted:They left out Strong Belwas and the Manderlys It seems like Wyman Manderly will be in an episode this season.
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Dec 23, 2015 02:35
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Phenotype posted:But Jon's decision was the 100% correct one, at least in dealing with the wildlings and white walkers. Every reader can already see that as clear as day (living humans > ice aliens and zombies) and it gets to the point of frustration that the ordinary Night's Watch doesn't seem to care. I think showing some acceptance from Aliser, or at least SOMEONE not directly in Jon's circle, would have helped it seem more plausible. It depends on what you mean by 'correct'. Jon's decision wasn't 100% correct. Otherwise, he wouldn't have been violently murdered by the night's watch. The night's watch and the wildlings hate each other too much to make a real alliance. This is portrayed as both irrational and dumb (because they're really all humans and shouldn't be so drat racist and there's monsters that are going to kill them all if they don't stop loving around) and somewhat rational and understandable (because they've been fighting each other for a long time and their friends have been killed by the enemy and they can't just brush that off just like that). The series has done a good job at making it clear that these groups don't just unite by circumstance. Even the wildlings need a special kind of leader to actually unite them, not just the threat of total annihilation. The watch, as portrayed in the show, is an institution that, due to its history and what its members have lived through, is just not equipped to adapt to the changing circumstances. I imagine that it will be destroyed, just as many other institutions in the series will be very different by the time it all ends. Pedro De Heredia fucked around with this message at 12:41 on Dec 23, 2015 |
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Dec 23, 2015 12:33
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I'm just super looking forward to the Tarly's taking shits on Sam the entire season and him to finally stand up to them in the penultimate episode. Its the ultimate in TV show writing.
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Dec 23, 2015 18:28
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Wasn't there a rumor earlier this year that Arnold Schwarzenegger auditioned for the role of Randyll Tarly? That would make this season more interesting.
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Dec 23, 2015 18:47
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Solice Kirsk posted:I'm just super looking forward to the Tarly's taking shits on Sam the entire season and him to finally stand up to them in the penultimate episode. Its the ultimate in TV show writing. Considering show Sam has way more backbone than book Sam, I doubt it will take that long for him to stand up to his father.
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Dec 23, 2015 21:27
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I'm not expecting to see Sam's family more than one, maybe two, episodes.
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Dec 23, 2015 21:42
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Solice Kirsk posted:I'm just super looking forward to the Tarly's taking shits on Sam the entire season and him to finally stand up to them in the penultimate episode. Its the ultimate in TV show writing. In book and show he's the alpha neckbeard really.
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Dec 23, 2015 23:44
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Lycus posted:I'm not expecting to see Sam's family more than one, maybe two, episodes.
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Dec 24, 2015 00:57
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Oh yeah! Kevan is gonna die soon! That totally slipped my mind. I wonder how they'll get Varys back for that.
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Dec 24, 2015 01:01
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Solice Kirsk posted:Oh yeah! Kevan is gonna die soon! That totally slipped my mind. I wonder how they'll get Varys back for that. Lady Stoneheart will ferry him over in one of Aegon's ships.
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Dec 24, 2015 01:04
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Solice Kirsk posted:Oh yeah! Kevan is gonna die soon! That totally slipped my mind. I wonder how they'll get Varys back for that. He's just going to use the Skyrim fast travel just like Littlefinger does all the time.
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Dec 24, 2015 01:20
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Solice Kirsk posted:Oh yeah! Kevan is gonna die soon! That totally slipped my mind. I wonder how they'll get Varys back for that. It doesn't really matter when it happens. If I were to guess, he'll sneak into King's Landing when Dany comes to Westeros to parallel with Young Griff's invasion in the book.
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Dec 24, 2015 01:32
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Littlefinger could be the assassin just as well since he needs chaos, too, and thus needs the semblance of order Kevan is establishing destroyed again.
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Dec 24, 2015 02:39
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frankenfreak posted:Littlefinger could be the assassin just as well since he needs chaos, too, and thus needs the semblance of order Kevan is establishing destroyed again. That would be utterly retarded as Varys' double kill is a glorious and important character event. Stop thinking like D$D 
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Dec 24, 2015 03:17
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Varys reportedly leaves Mereen by episode 4 next season. Plenty of time for him to show up later and murder Kevan.
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Dec 24, 2015 03:44
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In episode one Varys will haphazardly fire a crossbow into the air and in episode nine it will spear Kevan through the heart through an open window.
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Dec 24, 2015 04:04
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Space Pussy posted:That would be utterly retarded as Varys' double kill is a glorious and important character event. You're right, though, I need to stop thinking like that or next season, I'm a writer on the show. In It For The Tank posted:In episode one Varys will haphazardly fire a crossbow into the air and in episode nine it will spear Kevan through the heart through an open window.
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Dec 24, 2015 04:28
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Varys killing Kevan can still happen as he could return to Kings Landing to pave the way for Dany to return.
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Dec 24, 2015 04:54
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I'm digging the Earthworm Jim/Varys fanfic.
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Dec 24, 2015 15:48
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I caught the last few episodes of season one on HBO last night. Man that first season was so good.
lifts cats over head fucked around with this message at 13:34 on Dec 28, 2015 |
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Dec 27, 2015 16:35
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It really was. Whatever issues Season 1 had (and it did have some) pale in comparison to the later seasons. It had the advantage that the material that it was adapting was the most straightforward and you had Sean Bean carrying the show while the young actors found their footing but, even then, it seems like the showrunners approached the show with a completely different design philosophy. The changes and adaption choices made were usually pragmatic because the showrunners seemed to actually trust the source material, and those that were made were usually done to add character depth rather plot changes, and overall they maintained a spirit much closer to the books' (compare the mostly grounded fighting in Season 1 to later seasons where it became much flashier and over-the-top).
In It For The Tank fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Dec 27, 2015 |
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Dec 27, 2015 23:27
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In It For The Tank posted:It really was. Whatever issues Season 1 had (and it did have some) pale in comparison to the later seasons. It had the advantage that the material that it was adapting was the most straightforward and you had Sean Bean carrying the show while the young actors found their footing but, even then, it seems like the showrunners approached the show with a completely different design philosophy. The changes and adaption choices made were usually pragmatic because the showrunners seemed to actually trust the source material, and those that were made were usually done to add character depth rather plot changes, and overall they maintained a spirit much closer to the books' (compare the mostly grounded fighting in Season 1 to later seasons where it became much flashier and over-the-top). Yeah - the show became a victim of its own popularity, I think. The changes in the first season (like Robert and Cersei's talk) felt like they were asking permission - like saying "hey, so here's something new we made, we want you to know that we're being loyal to the material", but then they trashed that goodwill when Jorah and original Daario fought infinitely spawning guards while barristan went out like a flaccid turd. But that bit of whiny bitching aside, I'm still cool with the show because it's pretty much it's own thing now and book-loyal or not, I'll get a loving ending.
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