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I am the absolute worst at sleeping. I often wind up lying in bed for hours before finally nodding off, half the time I can't find a comfortable position to lie in to save my life, and if dreams are at all relevant I rarely have them - it's not me not remembering them because the few nights I do have one I know it. What am I doing wrong? In addition, I've heard various dos and don'ts about what you shouldn't do X hours before going to bed, no eating, no artificial light, no using your bedroom for anything else during the day, etc; how much of this is true and how much is wives-tale pseudoscience?
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Dec 29, 2015 10:45
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Some people are night owls, of course the problem is you have to get up early for jobs etc. going against your natural rhythms. I would try meditation to get yourself relaxed and clear your mind, its possible to get into a good routine you just have to be persistent. Exercise, have sex (lol as if), physical tiredness will make anyone sleep. Or smoke a ton of weed until you wake up on the sofa wondering what day it is. (this is what i do)
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Dec 29, 2015 11:52
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AlphaKretin posted:I am the absolute worst at sleeping. I often wind up lying in bed for hours before finally nodding off, half the time I can't find a comfortable position to lie in to save my life, and if dreams are at all relevant I rarely have them - it's not me not remembering them because the few nights I do have one I know it. What am I doing wrong? Personally, I find light and sound to be a big deal. If you're a typical goon and spend a lot of time staring at computer and TV screens, I highly recommend f.lux or similar program to dim things a bit. Try to set aside an hour or two before bedtime as your chillax NO loving ELECTRONICS time.
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Dec 29, 2015 12:15
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When was the last time you got a mattress, and was it good quality? A cheap, old mattress just sucks rear end. There are a few mail-order mattresses now (E.g. Tuft and Needle) that are affordable and pretty nice and durable for the money. Also, try the following: 1) Go to bed and wake up at roughly the same time, every day. Yes this includes the weekends. 2) Get some exercise earlier in the day. Tire yourself out. 3) Consider trying Melatonin, taking it about an hour before you get in bed. It's not going to knock you out like a narcotic, but I found it helpful to ease myself into new sleeping patterns as required by work. 4) Wake-up lights have changed my life. It is so much easier to get out of bed, and it feels way more natural to get up at, say, 4:30AM if you're brought out of sleep by a gently rising warm glow. Also, diet helps. Loads of refined sugars and alcohol always mean I sleep like poo poo.
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Dec 29, 2015 12:43
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As others have said, make sure your sleeping schedule is as consistent as possible and that your mattress is high quality. Something else to consider is to impose a curfew on yourself on entertainment - no screens past a set time (for example, 10PM). I still read things on my cellphone but don't engage in late night gaming or TV watching anymore and have found it much easier to fall asleep by midnight. Also you may just be a natural night owl who has to take some sort of medication to fall asleep. My sleeping patterns didn't truly normalize until I had to take a cocktail of medicine at night that had drowsy side effects 
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Dec 29, 2015 14:45
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Thanks for all the replies so far. I'm hesitant to rely on medication but I'll certainly try cutting back on late night computer use (I say, replying to this on a computer late at night  ). Does anyone have advice on posture? Most nights I'm tossing and turning until I pass out. I think prefer to sleep on my side in that I get restless on my back but then I never know what to do with my lower arm. I'd feel most at home on my stomach except for, y'know, the whole suffocation thing.
AlphaKretin fucked around with this message at 15:53 on Dec 29, 2015 |
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Dec 29, 2015 15:50
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If you're careful about not having caffeine, sugar, or other stimulants after about late afternoon you probably wouldn't need medication anyway. I almost always sleep on my side. No idea how people can sleep on their back, my body feels like a corpse or something when in that position. I usually sleep on my side with my arm wrapped around or tucked under my pillow. If you lay it under your body your limb will go numb.
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Dec 29, 2015 16:24
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Sleeping well is sort of like losing weight, it's not rocket science, and you don't really need advice, you already know what you need to do, you just have to do it. So, what's been said here - get up at the same time every day, first thing in the morning get some exercise, cut out/minimize caffeine and alcohol, couple hours before bed turn off the screens and do some "wind down" stuff, when it's time for bed, turn off the lights, lay down, deep breaths, and wait. In 14 days you'll be sleeping like a baby. The first 14 days will be a little rough. ;-) If you plan on sleeping 10p-6a, on night one you may lay down at 10p and toss and turn until 2a. Night two may or may not be better. But I assure you on night three, after two nights of little sleep, you will pass out as soon as you hit the pillow. Run with that.
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Dec 29, 2015 17:09
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if you work, and I mean actual physical labor, not bullshit that involves sitting down all day, after work you will be tired and will not have as much difficulty sleeping. you could also try exercise.
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Dec 29, 2015 19:43
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I find that late night computer usage doesn't keep me up, but doing something mentally stimulating on the computer and then trying to go to sleep does. Daily exercise, and trying to go to sleep and wake up at roughly the same time every day helps. Maybe an hour flexibility on each end. Um - rote memorization puts me to sleep - like studying a language. Programming or IT stuff keeps me up. Dunno why.
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Dec 31, 2015 02:40
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I agree with the meditation before bed. I've noticed a huge difference in the quality of my sleep when my mind is active and full of thoughts vs empty (or near empty) and just going to bed. Try stretching or yoga which has helped me too. I've also found that eating before bed is a bad move although very hard when high.
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Dec 31, 2015 03:09
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AlphaKretin posted:Thanks for all the replies so far. I'm hesitant to rely on medication but I'll certainly try cutting back on late night computer use (I say, replying to this on a computer late at night Definately avoid medication if you at all can. Try bedtime/sleep teas instead. Also try breathing techniques such as this one. Something like it works very well for me 
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Dec 31, 2015 13:52
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AlphaKretin posted:In addition, I've heard various dos and don'ts about what you shouldn't do X hours before going to bed, no eating, no artificial light, no using your bedroom for anything else during the day, etc; how much of this is true and how much is wives-tale pseudoscience? The artificial light thing seems to make a big difference for some people, my brother got all evangelical about it because it made such a difference for him. It basically boils down to, if you can, you should avoid being in front of a screen for like a half hour or hour before bed, and/or use Flux to make your screen all orange/get orange sunglasses that make you look like a tool but apparently help. The eating thing is also kind of true, and also you are worse at digesting when your body wants to be sleeping, so it's more likely to make you fat, fatty. The reason they're all kind of pseudo-sciencey though is because these things affect people waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyy different amounts, and so for some people it doesn't matter at all. The real answer is you're probably stressing over a bunch of poo poo and that affects you in ways you don't realize, because that is true for like everybody everywhere now. Meditation would help in that case, as would breath exercises, or figuring out what's digging at you and not having it be a part of your life any more. Also physical exhaustion is good. E: full disclosure, I don't do any of this poo poo, also I sleep like 4-6 hours a night because our society is a hell-hole with no escape, where people are trained to fling poo poo at other people in a never-ending race to the bottom, and every action I take contributes to it, even inaction. If you figure out the sleep secret, let me know. E2: Medication is ok if you need it in the short term, but it is definitely not a long term solution, and can become a thing which prevents sleep, because increased tolerance and your body expecting the chemicals. surc fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Dec 31, 2015 |
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Dec 31, 2015 18:53
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When my sleep gets way out of whack, as it's going to be going back to work next week after 2 weeks off, I rely heavily on melatonin - at least until I fall back into a normal pattern. Everything I've read, though, says the best thing to do is to always go to bed at the same time every night. I don't do that, but I kind of wish I did. johnny sack fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Dec 31, 2015 |
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Dec 31, 2015 23:27
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johnny sack posted:When my sleep gets way out of whack, as it's going to be going back to work next week after 2 weeks off, I rely heavily on melatonin - at least until I fall back into a normal pattern. I use melatonin quite frequently to reset my sleep pattern after working nightshifts, it's doesn't always work but I have a few other options, zopiclone which I use very sparingly and kirklands sleep-aid which I'm yet to try. I only use medication once or twice a week if I can depending on what shifts I have at the time. A more recent thing I've found is that now I have a girlfriend I mostly sleep like poo poo when she stays over, not even the zopiclone works, she does fidget a bit occasionally but my bed is large enough that I don't notice I'm just fully aware of her being there and for some reason my brain won't let me sleep because of it.
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Jan 1, 2016 20:51
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Melatonin is harmless as medications go. Just remember that taking extra pills doesn't help - Instead of resetting your sleep rhythm once it'll just keep resetting all night. Lots of micro naps, weird stuff.Gaz2k21 posted:A more recent thing I've found is that now I have a girlfriend I mostly sleep like poo poo when she stays over, not even the zopiclone works, she does fidget a bit occasionally but my bed is large enough that I don't notice I'm just fully aware of her being there and for some reason my brain won't let me sleep because of it. Not unusual. It may take a while but eventually your brain will figure out that it isn't constantly sexy time or whatever and you'll start to sleep properly.
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Jan 1, 2016 23:18
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Fruits of the sea posted:Not unusual. It may take a while but eventually your brain will figure out that it isn't constantly sexy time or whatever and you'll start to sleep properly.  I was going to post something just like this. Just go masturbate before you go to bed; I bet it will solve all of your problems.
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Jan 2, 2016 04:09
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LogisticEarth posted:
I want to get one of these buy every time I see one they want like 150 dollars for a loving lamp with a dimswitch hooked up to a loving timer on there 
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Jan 2, 2016 06:02
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Sheep-Goats posted:I want to get one of these buy every time I see one they want like 150 dollars for a loving lamp with a dimswitch hooked up to a loving timer on there Not that it is really much cheaper, but take a look at a philips hue white starter set. If i recall they are like $80, and come with two bulbs plus the hub that lets you set the timer. Biggest benefit is then you have the hub if you want to expand to automating other lights in your house. Works well for me at least.
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Jan 2, 2016 16:09
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Sheep-Goats posted:I want to get one of these buy every time I see one they want like 150 dollars for a loving lamp with a dimswitch hooked up to a loving timer on there I did in fact spring for the $150, Phillips wake up light, but I think I got it on sale or something, I don't recall. Gradual dimming and the color change (e.g. the "sunrise simulation") are probably the biggest barriers to just building something like that at home. Yeah, it's $150, but it's LED, and supposed to last 30 years or something. You can not only adjust the alarm time, but also the length of the light ramp-up, and they also have a nice "sunset" feature where you can hit a single button and start a timed "white to dim red" mode over 20-40 minutes or so. That's great if you're a bedtime reader. The two biggest issues I have with it are 1.) No battery backup, which sucks, and 2.) The audio and reception on the radio are sub-par. I will say that I got mine kind of out of desperation. I was having to wake up at 4:00AM to work 12 hour days, in the dead of winter where I'd leave in the dark and come home in the dark. It made me want to kill myself. The wake-up light helped tremendously, and in retrospect the high cost was a no-brainer. That said, you can absolutely build some kind of homebrew light, the cheapest of which would just be a basic lamp hooked up to a standard timer.
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Jan 2, 2016 18:27
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Two words: sound machine. I've been using a white noise machine (there are apps for this, or a fan works just as well) since I was an anxious little high schooler. This is the one I currently use:  25 bucks on Amazon.
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Jan 2, 2016 18:57
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LogisticEarth posted:I did in fact spring for the $150, Phillips wake up light, but I think I got it on sale or something, I don't recall. Gradual dimming and the color change (e.g. the "sunrise simulation") are probably the biggest barriers to just building something like that at home. Yeah, it's $150, but it's LED, and supposed to last 30 years or something. You can not only adjust the alarm time, but also the length of the light ramp-up, and they also have a nice "sunset" feature where you can hit a single button and start a timed "white to dim red" mode over 20-40 minutes or so. That's great if you're a bedtime reader. The two biggest issues I have with it are 1.) No battery backup, which sucks, and 2.) The audio and reception on the radio are sub-par. OK that should be 40 bucks.
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Jan 3, 2016 05:21
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Sheep-Goats posted:OK that should be 40 bucks. Buy it or don't, thanks for participating in a system where you aren't the sole arbiter of what things are worth.
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Jan 3, 2016 16:27
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I have a awful time sleeping, made a ton worse by having an irregular work schedule so I am never really waking up at the same time. After years of fighting it, now just roll with it. If I have to be up early for a super long day I drug myself out but for normal poo poo I just deal. Once I stop obsessing over needing more sleep I usually find that I am fine with getting 4-5 hours of sleep a night. Usually after a week or three of this I spend a few days going to bed at like 9pm and then the cycle repeats.
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Jan 3, 2016 19:45
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As an alternative to a standalone white noise machine, ever since moving to a big city (whose garbage trucks come storming thru in the dead of night god whyyy) I've been sleeping to a bluetooth speaker near/under my pillow playing rain sounds: https://rain.simplynoise.com/ (high intensity, no oscillation, no thunder.  )They also make various frequencies of white noise tracks: https://simplynoise.com/ Melatonin gives me insane dreams, so that might be fun for you! But my other top advice would be exercise and periods of not drinking.
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Jan 3, 2016 22:50
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ohgodwhat posted:Buy it or don't, thanks for participating in a system where you aren't the sole arbiter of what things are worth. When you took Econ 101 you signed a pledge not to post about it on the internet just like everyone else.
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Jan 3, 2016 23:21
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I have chronic insomnia that I've had for my whole life, so I've got some background. First of all, the most important question to answer is: how long have you had this problem? If you've had difficulty sleeping for a couple of months or weeks, the treatment is vastly different than if it's been a thing your entire life. Most people have bouts of insomnia, but not chronic insomnia. A sudden bout of insomnia is almost always due to either a life change (so your brain is having a hard time turning off), or a disease (any other symptoms?). You should be able to easily pinpoint the source and deal with it that way - in other words, insomnia is a symptom. For those with chronic insomnia, most of those can be handled via the methods discussed in this thread. Everybody posting the One True Solution is being a bit daffy, though. As one poster said, any or all of these things could work for you and you'll need to figure out which ones do. Going to bed at a set time, waking up no matter how little sleep you got, etc. are all good things to do. Try these things first. None of the advice mentioned is - to use your term - an "old wives' tale". It all has a chance to work and it is all grounded in fact. The vast majority of chronic insomnia can be handled using some combination of these methods or devices. If you, like me, just have hosed sleep patterns, welcome to hell. I toss and turn for hours, wake up frequently, cannot get back to sleep once awake, and have vivid dreams. My internal clock wants a lot of sleep, but I just can't get it. After exhausting (ha) all of he above options and still getting nowhere, I talked with my doctor at length about it. She set me up with a sleep study that confirmed I basically will always have insomnia. The idea of treating insomnia as a disorder itself, rather than a symptom of something else, is brand-new, medically speaking. And there are very few people for whom it's an actual disorder so I don't expect many medical advances to come out anytime soon. I am medicated for my insomnia because of the above. I take trazodone nightly, which helps. It's not addictive or anything but it is prescription and expensive. Even trazodone isn't a magic bullet - it basically gives me a small window of about 3 minutes during which I can likely get to sleep. If I miss that window due to noises, discomfort, brain activity, whatever... then I don't sleep that night. Unlike over the counter sleep aids, prescription stuff doesn't make you lethargic or tired. It literally calms your brain waves, and during that brief transition period sleep is possible. So if you happen to miss that transition, or you get woken up mid-sleep, you won't sleep again. Hopefully you're in the majority that has insomnia as a symptom rather than the sole problem.
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Jan 4, 2016 17:32
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One other thing - Chronic insomnia is debilitating. I have it so bad that it's a medical issue and therefore protected by law in terms of employment. It's considered a disability and to accommodate it, I often work weird hours. I work in the tech industry so it's possible for me to do so. I have no idea how I would remain employed if I worked at, like, a bank or something where I had a start time. Hopefully you ain't as bad
Thursday Next fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Jan 4, 2016 |
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Jan 4, 2016 17:36
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My favourite thing about this thread is how it seems to get a reply nightly at the perfect time to remind me that I should be trying to sleep instead of browsing SA. I've been somewhat lovely at sleep due to lazyness and bad habits for a while but it's only been as bad as it has been lately recently (what a phrase), and even that I think is just me getting even lazier. I'm still glad I asked because I got a lot of good advice and satisfied my curiosity, as well as spurring a bit of discussion, so thanks again to everyone for all the replies.
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Jan 4, 2016 17:42
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AlphaKretin posted:My favourite thing about this thread is how it seems to get a reply nightly at the perfect time to remind me that I should be trying to sleep instead of browsing SA. No problem! Like I say, some of these methods in this thread will probably work. If they don't, or they work for a short time then lose efficacy, you should talk with a doctor. Many doctors still treat insomnia as a symptom, and are hesitant to recommend sleep studies when a $20 pillow often does the trick. Sleep studies suck, though. My insomnia is bad during the best of times, and being in a cold uncomfortable hospital type setting with people monitoring me... well, let's just say that if you don't get any sleep, they don't get any data. So you have to keep coming back night after night for no sleep, which fucks work or class schedules. Only do sleep studies if you're comfortable that your life can accommodate their policies on trying again.
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Jan 5, 2016 07:33
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Edit: And if you really want a mindfuck about how bad insomnia can get, go read up on Fatal Familial Insomnia. As bad as I have it, there's much worse out there. The craziest thing is - even with all our knwledge of drugs and anesthesia effects, we can't induce actual sleep. Even medically-induced comas don't really put us to sleep. Thursday Next fucked around with this message at 07:39 on Jan 5, 2016 |
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Jan 5, 2016 07:35
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Thursday Next posted:Edit: I always hesitate to mention FFI, because the hypochondriac side of people tend to worry about having it. If you're reading this and you're wondering if you have it: you don't. It's really loving rare. The first recorded case was sometime in the 1700s, and I don't think we even managed to record 100 cases of it thus far. You're a goon; you're not that special.
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Jan 5, 2016 20:01
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Always worth talking to a sleep medicine doctor. Check your insurance plan. One thing that also has helped me, most likely out of placebo effect but it's worked: http://hylands.com/products/hylands-calms-fort%C3%A9%C2%AE You can get it on Amazon. It's worth a try. Take three of 'em about a half-hour before bedtime and with a white-noise machine + the right pre-sleep no-screens routine, you might have a shot.
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Jan 7, 2016 21:38
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Thursday Next posted:The craziest thing is - even with all our knwledge of drugs and anesthesia effects, we can't induce actual sleep. Even medically-induced comas don't really put us to sleep.
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Jan 8, 2016 13:11
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i like nice words
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Thursday Next posted:The craziest thing is - even with all our knwledge of drugs and anesthesia effects, we can't induce actual sleep. Even medically-induced comas don't really put us to sleep. Somehow this doesn't surprise me. It should, but it seems that sleep in general is really mystifying to modern science. Dreams and yawning, afaik, are also black boxes as such with our current knowledge.
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Jan 8, 2016 13:17
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Thursday Next posted:The craziest thing is - even with all our knwledge of drugs and anesthesia effects, we can't induce actual sleep. Even medically-induced comas don't really put us to sleep. We DON'T really understand a lot of this stuff, we don't truly understand the how/why these drugs work, just that they do. We have a very cursory understanding of this chemical does this and this chemical does that. Don't get me wrong, we have come a LONG way in understanding the brain and how it works, but we are still essentially adolescents when it comes to truly understanding the brain and how/why it functions.
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Jan 8, 2016 22:57
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Why sleep when you can, instead, start a late night social club. The first rule is you can't talk about it. The second rule is you can't talk about it... My mind races at night, often robbing me of sleep. Personally, I read these forums on my smartphone while laying in bed, especially some of the long ask/tell posts. If I really can't sleep I take a couple Benadryl. In the past I'd spend some time with the Ambien Walrus (yes it's a thing, Google it for a good laugh). Nothing wrong with using something to help establish a sleep pattern.
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Jan 10, 2016 04:39
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Geniasis posted:I always hesitate to mention FFI, because the hypochondriac side of people tend to worry about having it. Ah, yeah - good point. I didn't think about the hypochondriac angle. Yeah; there are probably a tiny handful of humans that actually have this. You don't. Nobody you will ever meet will even know anyone who knows anyone who has it. It's not just rare, it's inherited genetic fuckery and only has manifested in a couple of family lines. It's just cool poo poo to me - the idea that there is no way, at all, for us to put someone to sleep. We can knock them out and cause them to stop forming memories, but sleep? No way. As for things like GHB, still doesn't work. The people with FFI literally die due to lack of sleep, even with the best hospital care (this is how we know medically-induced comas don't work). The fact is, we don't understand sleep or insomnia well at all. As I think I mentioned above, the idea of treating insomnia as a disease rather than a symptom is pretty new. We're only starting to look at ways to fix the issue for those of us with long-term insomnia. And if I had a dollar for everyone who told me how to "fix" my insomnia with one weird trick (whitenoise! sunlamp! light alarm! no caffeine! no food after 4pm! get up if you can't sleep after fifteen minutes! etc), I wouldn't need to work. It's fascinating poo poo. I just wish I weren't driven by necessity to learn about it all.
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Jan 10, 2016 07:30
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maporfic posted:In the past I'd spend some time with the Ambien Walrus (yes it's a thing, Google it for a good laugh) The only way I'd ever take Ambien again is if I had someone handcuff me to the bed and hide the key. I kept waking up with some combination of being naked, being outside and/or having done truly bizarre things. One time I stripped nude and grabbed an 18-count egg carton, then ran outside and circled my car pelting it with the eggs. I woke up lying in a bush in the woods outside my yard cuddling the empty carton like an infant. My feet were cut and bruised from walking/running barefoot on gravel and I had (of course) no memory of anything. When I emerged from the woods and saw my car I realized where the eggs had gone. Another time I removed my PC's keyboard and mouse and put them in the freezer. Another time I woke up hiding in the closet with a massive bruise on my forehead. Another time I buttered a pair of my shoes inside and out, doing a fine and meticulous job of it at that. Another time I sharpied my elbows and knees completely black. Another time I woke up in a neighbor's yard with his dog licking my face. Judging by the taste in my mouth and the bits in my beard I had been eating the dog's food but at least I wasn't naked because wearing only a shirt and socks counts as not being naked. Beware the walrus!
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Jan 11, 2016 00:40
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Haskell9 posted:The only way I'd ever take Ambien again is if I had someone handcuff me to the bed and hide the key. I kept waking up with some combination of being naked, being outside and/or having done truly bizarre things. One time I stripped nude and grabbed an 18-count egg carton, then ran outside and circled my car pelting it with the eggs. I woke up lying in a bush in the woods outside my yard cuddling the empty carton like an infant. My feet were cut and bruised from walking/running barefoot on gravel and I had (of course) no memory of anything. When I emerged from the woods and saw my car I realized where the eggs had gone. This just makes me want to try ambien
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Jan 11, 2016 03:10
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