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Reason posted:It'd be nice to see a source, but I will say this before you even list a source. TARP was approx $700 billion dollars. So taxpayers (who in the end ultimately paid for TARP) got back approx 2% of their money. And the real question there is which taxpayers? If you're having trouble finding a source here is a decent breakdown of TARP. The biggest most sincere question about bailing out banks is does a bank deserve a bailout more than a citizen? The majoirity of poor people don't get bailouts when they screw up. They go to jail and get hosed. No, but when someone accuses Clinton of supporting TARP because she is rich or because she got paid to give a speech, it matters who else, like Obama, supported that policy.
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Feb 1, 2016 04:20
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Trabisnikof posted:No, but when someone accuses Clinton of supporting TARP because she is rich or because she got paid to give a speech, it matters who else, like Obama, supported that policy. Obama is also a rich person, who has made quite a bit of money since supporting TARP. Obama was a millionaire before running for president which means he had more money than the majority of people posting in this thread will probably ever make in their entire lives so claiming that he isn't rich is stupid and rich people benefit way, way more from things like TARP than the rest of us.
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Feb 1, 2016 04:22
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Reason posted:Obama is also a rich person, who has made quite a bit of money since supporting TARP. Just making sure that we were that far down the rabbit hole where even Obama was corrupted by the book sales into voting for TARP for personal profit. Who needs DU when this thread keeps delivering?
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Feb 1, 2016 04:24
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Reason posted:It'd be nice to see a source, but I will say this before you even list a source. TARP was approx $700 billion dollars. So taxpayers (who in the end ultimately paid for TARP) got back approx 2% of their money. And the real question there is which taxpayers? If you're having trouble finding a source here is a decent breakdown of TARP. The biggest most sincere question about bailing out banks is does a bank deserve a bailout more than a citizen? The majoirity of poor people don't get bailouts when they screw up. They go to jail and get hosed. The people who benefited from the banks not imploding was everyone who had savings accounts or mortgages with those banks (i.e. lots of not-rich people), in addition to stabilizing the financial sector so the whole house of cards wouldn't come down and wipe out the entire US economy. Also, you misread him-the US taxpayers MADE money off of TARP, as the banks paid back the money they owed plus interest. The executives should have gone to jail, sure, but letting the banks fail would have had disastrous consequences for the global economy. Edit: $700 billion was authorized, 427.1 billion was spent, proceeds were 441.8 billion. Acebuckeye13 fucked around with this message at 04:42 on Feb 1, 2016 |
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Feb 1, 2016 04:38
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JeffersonClay posted:John Stuart Mill, who supported letting the Irish starve during the great famine because providing relief would make them slaves to the government. http://crookedtimber.org/2016/01/28/millian-liberalism-and-the-irish-famine/ I'm not sure what you're trying to argue here. Both of the bolded positions are clearly in the tradition of liberalism descended from Locke and John Stuart Mill. Neither of them are 'leftist', which implies an entirely separate philosophical tradition. icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 05:12 on Feb 1, 2016 |
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Feb 1, 2016 05:00
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Acebuckeye13 posted:The people who benefited from the banks not imploding was everyone who had savings accounts or mortgages with those banks (i.e. lots of not-rich people), in addition to stabilizing the financial sector so the whole house of cards wouldn't come down and wipe out the entire US economy. Yeah, TARP in and of itself is a thing I have pretty much zero problems with. Well okay, a bit higher interest might have been nice while we had them over a barrel, but I'll take it.
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Feb 1, 2016 05:05
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There have been 10 pages of posts since this morning, did anything that wasn't primarychat happen?
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Feb 1, 2016 05:08
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Acebuckeye13 posted:The people who benefited from the banks not imploding was everyone who had savings accounts or mortgages with those banks (i.e. lots of not-rich people), in addition to stabilizing the financial sector so the whole house of cards wouldn't come down and wipe out the entire US economy. I tend to agree that losing big banks completely would have been a bad thing, but I also think that there were things that could be done besides giving those people a free pass plus recovery costs that might have been more beneficial. Anyways TARP was just an example on the record of Hillary being pro big business. You could also point out other big things like supporting the war in Iraq and supporting the bloated military budget(war is big business). I did get way off my argument there though which was this: Hillary is more in line with big business than she would like to talk about and more in line with big business than other democratic hopeful Bernie. Anyone who claims she has any desire to make drastic change to Wall Street is naive and if/when she claims otherwise she is pandering to get your support if that is an issue that matters to you. On giving the finger to wall street, she tends to be a lot of talk and not much actual legislation. Even by inaction she tends to side with banks and big business. Doorknob Slobber fucked around with this message at 05:23 on Feb 1, 2016 |
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Feb 1, 2016 05:10
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Chard posted:There have been 10 pages of posts since this morning, did anything that wasn't primarychat happen? https://twitter.com/VaraBBC/status/693833111583350784
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Feb 1, 2016 05:20
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Having these stupid lovely arguments in this thread is okay if and only if the weeping and gnashing of teeth after your selected candidate loses also goes here, otherwise you're saddling us with all the pain and none of the pleasure.
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Feb 1, 2016 05:31
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Quorum posted:Having these stupid lovely arguments in this thread is okay if and only if the weeping and gnashing of teeth after your selected candidate loses also goes here, otherwise you're saddling us with all the pain and none of the pleasure. What if your candidate is none of the above? You guys all assume that because I think Trump is an idiot and Hillary is a shill I'm a Bernie supporter? gently caress him for selling out and running as a Democrat. He talks about being an outsider and blah loving blah anti-establishment but he's running as a loving Democrat? What a goddamn hypocrite.
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Feb 1, 2016 05:36
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Reason posted:What if your candidate is none of the above? You guys all assume that because I think Trump is an idiot and Hillary is a shill I'm a Bernie supporter? gently caress him for selling out and running as a Democrat. He talks about being an outsider and blah loving blah anti-establishment but he's running as a loving Democrat? What a goddamn hypocrite. I'm sorry our country forces all candidates to be from one of two parties.
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Feb 1, 2016 05:41
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For all the complaints, that discussion still managed to be an order of magnitude more sensible and coherent than the YCS megathreads.
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Feb 1, 2016 05:52
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stinkles1112 posted:State-sponsored college and healthcare: the neoliberal answers Those are both things common in other neoliberal countries though? Seriously your inability to comprehend global politics is astounding. Voyager I posted:Watching Fishcmech's logic circuits break over his extreme hatred of guns and everything to do with them can actually be pretty funny. Gun lovers are sick and delusional. Killer robot posted:The only thing you need to know about gun control is that even fishmech can't salvage a technically correct argument for more than three posts before collapsing into "grrr I hate gun people that's why. " The only argument against gun control that has a rational basis is "but I'm invested in gun manufacturers"!
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Feb 1, 2016 05:55
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It is funny to watch leftists spin over the death of any global socialism post-1991 and see neoliberal market economies in places like Europe have accomplished most every leftist dream.fishmech posted:Gun lovers are sick and delusional. Anyone who won't go along with Japan-style gun control should be killed in a civil war.
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Feb 1, 2016 05:57
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This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!
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BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:For all the complaints, that discussion still managed to be an order of magnitude more sensible and coherent than the YCS megathreads. Good loving job, I guess.
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Feb 1, 2016 05:58
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TARP was alright, but there should have been a similar bailout for regular people to stay in their homes, the banks should have been broken up, and lots of people should have gone to jail. Instead Obama appointed Eric Holder and Timothy Geither to keep the Wall Street money flowing (which at the end of the day failed).
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Feb 1, 2016 05:58
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Reason posted:What if your candidate is none of the above? You guys all assume that because I think Trump is an idiot and Hillary is a shill I'm a Bernie supporter? gently caress him for selling out and running as a Democrat. He talks about being an outsider and blah loving blah anti-establishment but he's running as a loving Democrat? What a goddamn hypocrite. TBF I don't really care who your chosen candidate is, but it is freaking hilarious to watch people moralize about how they and only they have found the Way, the Truth, and the Life of ideological purity in this or any election, and it can only end well for all involved. 
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Feb 1, 2016 06:01
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DeusExMachinima posted:It is funny to watch leftists spin over the death of any global socialism post-1991 and see neoliberal market economies in places like Europe have accomplished most every leftist dream. What about China?
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Feb 1, 2016 06:01
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Goddammit Fishmech don't come of a sixer and jump right back into the dumb arguments from five pages ago. Let's argue about making GBS threads banking laws or something instead. On topic, I don't really understand the use of prison sentences as a form of punishment, at least not as a generic sentence. If someone is considered dangerous to society then obviously they need to be contained until that is no longer the case, but otherwise simply putting someone in a box for years seems to have very little benefit to society.
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Feb 1, 2016 06:04
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China is a very good example of what post-trainwrecked leftism looks like. It also does not accomplish any social goals like Europe that help the people and their leadership makes Wall Street look positively selfless. I think their upcoming mandatory nationwide social rating game is looking swank.
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Feb 1, 2016 06:04
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DeusExMachinima posted:Anyone who won't go along with Japan-style gun control should be killed in a civil war. This but with Australia style gun control, i.e. you need to have an actual reason, and no, "i'm a whiny suburbanite who needs 5 guns to get it up also I'm scared of the town's black guy" doesn't count.
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Feb 1, 2016 06:07
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Voyager I posted:On topic, I don't really understand the use of prison sentences as a form of punishment, at least not as a generic sentence. If someone is considered dangerous to society then obviously they need to be contained until that is no longer the case, but otherwise simply putting someone in a box for years seems to have very little benefit to society. Well people who damage society need to be punished in some way, and giving them 40 lashes or throwing them on public display in the stocks is generally considered cruel or bordering thereon. As far as the financial crisis, I would have liked to see some short-term prison sentences for the top offenders, and a whole bunch of community service hours for their cronies. Make the rear end in a top hat who hosed up a bunch of people's lives pick up trash and wash dishes in a homeless shelter for a few thousand hours, at least. Hopefully he comes out the other end of that somewhat less of a prick. Oh and fine him a shitload of money, of course. That he'll definitely understand.
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Feb 1, 2016 06:14
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DeusExMachinima posted:China is a very good example of what post-trainwrecked leftism looks like. It also does not accomplish any social goals like Europe that help the people and their leadership makes Wall Street look positively selfless. I think their upcoming mandatory nationwide social rating game is looking swank. You ain't kidding, that thing is loving terrifying. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHcTKWiZ8sI It's biased in that the video is talking about it from the perspective of analyzing a video game but it's horrifying because that's almost the best way to approach the topic, yet it's going to be controlling a country of a billion people. It's like every feverish nightmare about Facebook, Amazon and credit agencies were rolled into one package, published by the NSA and enforced by the FBI.
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Feb 1, 2016 06:15
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JeffersonClay posted:Which environmentalists support birth quotas? The Tragedy of the Commons article author, for one.
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Feb 1, 2016 06:15
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 I think Iowa's had enough.
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Feb 1, 2016 06:23
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Litany Unheard posted:Well people who damage society need to be punished in some way, and giving them 40 lashes or throwing them on public display in the stocks is generally considered cruel or bordering thereon. There's always using Nordic style prisons, where putting people in isn't inherently torture. Also confiscation of property to be immediately auctioned off for government benefit would probably be a good adjunct punishment for financial crime.
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Feb 1, 2016 06:24
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Rhesus Pieces posted:
I want you to picture a wet fart, personified. Now look at Ted Cruz and tell me there's no resemblance.
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Feb 1, 2016 06:37
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DeusExMachinima posted:China is a very good example of what post-trainwrecked leftism looks like. It also does not accomplish any social goals like Europe that help the people and their leadership makes Wall Street look positively selfless. I think their upcoming mandatory nationwide social rating game is looking swank. This is quite clearly a false statement. "Does not accomplish any social goals" is a laughable claim. Tone down your factless declarations.
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Feb 1, 2016 06:38
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I feel like this election has been going on for years. I'm sure Iowans are sick of politicians.
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Feb 1, 2016 06:39
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:I feel like this election has been going on for years. I'm sure Iowans are sick of politicians. They're probably pissed their snowpocalypse didn't come earlier. Poor state.
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Feb 1, 2016 06:44
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Close down the circus - we want a marketplace of ideas.
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Feb 1, 2016 06:45
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DeusExMachinima posted:It is funny to watch leftists spin over the death of any global socialism post-1991 and see neoliberal market economies in places like Europe have accomplished most every leftist dream. japan doesn't have gun loving kkk style nazis, it has katana-loving yakuza style nazis. also the nazis control all the levers of government
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Feb 1, 2016 07:04
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McDowell posted:Close down the circus - we want a marketplace of ideas. when the circus is over all the old ponies get shipped off to the glue factory. if only that were the case here
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Feb 1, 2016 07:07
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We need a new thread and quickly; Today might just be the political watershed moment of the entire decade.
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Feb 1, 2016 07:13
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Grouchio posted:We need a new thread and quickly; Today might just be the political watershed moment of the entire decade. Still January over on the better half of the country.
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Feb 1, 2016 07:15
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Grouchio posted:We need a new thread and quickly; Today might just be the political watershed moment of the entire decade. But for Donald Trump, it will be Monday.
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Feb 1, 2016 07:24
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:I feel like this election has been going on for years. I'm sure Iowans are sick of politicians. Nah these backwater states depend on having lots of this money dumped into them.
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Feb 1, 2016 07:28
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Grouchio posted:We need a new thread and quickly; Today might just be the political watershed moment of the entire decade. USPOL Feb: God Is/Is Not Dead, Check Back in 20 Hours
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Feb 1, 2016 07:32
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Grouchio posted:We need a new thread and quickly; Today might just be the political watershed moment of the entire decade. I'm getting sick of the anticipation. Let's get to it already!
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Feb 1, 2016 07:49
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