UKMT January and a bit of February 2016: Marxist Theory and Danczuk Memes

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT January and a bit of February 2016: Marxist Theory and Danczuk Memes

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serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

LemonDrizzle posted:

No, the government does not receive Short money. Short money exists because the government can draw on the resources of the civil service when doing research and policy work and so on whereas opposition parties cannot; its purpose is to give the opposition parties funding to compensate for this and help cover the costs of doing parliamentary business.

Don't forget the report that the government were spending more on 'special advisers' this year than last. So while cutting short money, they are increasing their spending on media spin doctors.

# ¿ Jan 2, 2016 13:44

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# ¿ May 22, 2024 18:30

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

Pork Pie Hat posted:

(The Tories are also doubling the fine for littering, to £150).

Good.

# ¿ Jan 3, 2016 10:37

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

I think hes wound enough people up in his career that they'll all have a pop at him now.

# ¿ Jan 3, 2016 12:08

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

XMNN posted:

I actually go out of my way to pick up litter all the time and that Clean for the Queen garbage makes me not want to anymore.

I think its something that the majority of the population might engage with and if that means less people chucking poo poo out their cars i'm okay with that.

# ¿ Jan 3, 2016 13:31

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...lking-away.html

I really wish he'd stop shooting himself in the foot in front of the media.

# ¿ Jan 4, 2016 13:50

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

Pork Pie Hat posted:

What he actually said to the Telegraph reporter was

http://i100.independent.co.uk/artic...m_campaign=i100

Which the reporter has decided to interpret as Corbyn "ignoring" it.

It just shows, yet again, that it doesn't matter what he does (or doesn't) do, he will not get fair treatment from most of the press, and I'm frankly surprised that otherwise sensible people here are still falling for it.

If you say you're going to answer it later, and then walk off without answering it, thats shooting yourself in the foot.

# ¿ Jan 4, 2016 17:54

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

Pork Pie Hat posted:

It really isn't though, he was at a demonstration about rail fares, he wanted to talk about rail fares and said he'd answer later about unrelated things. Do you trust the Telegraph to print an amendment to their piece to incorporate his answer (if he's given it yet)? I certainly don't, because the damage has been done already, by them, not him.

Yes, yes it really is. You cant constantly complain about the media having it in for him when he does stuff like this. This is an easy, easy thing to answer for anyone else leading a party. You trot out a few pre rehearsed lines and go back to talking about trains. Saying 'I'll answer it later' is fair enough, if he does actually answer it later, but he then left without giving that answer. I know this because his answer would have been widely reported by the multiple media sources there.

The media dislike Corbyn. The media are doing everything they can to give him a shoeing. What he's done today is hand them another shoe. I wish he'd stop doing that.

# ¿ Jan 4, 2016 19:59

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

I hope they experience a lot of Glasgow kisses.

# ¿ Jan 4, 2016 21:17

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

Pissflaps posted:

The problem with reaching out to none voters is that they don't vote.

Corbyn polls well with the 18-24 demographic too.

# ¿ Jan 5, 2016 09:50

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

https://twitter.com/MichaelDugher/status/639764827221696512

The dummy is out the pram everyone.

# ¿ Jan 5, 2016 13:48

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

Im enjoying all the journalists flip flopping all over the place. Its made my afternoon.

# ¿ Jan 5, 2016 15:58

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

Spangly A posted:

he's not doing and has never planned a reshuffle, I'm not sure how this is unclear

He might not have planned one earlier, but after todays knifings I imagine there could be one on the cards now.

# ¿ Jan 5, 2016 16:05

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

Spangly A posted:

He fired the guy starting a media frenzy for nothing.

I made the argument after the first leak that Benn might go only if he jumped for leader. Dugher has been sacked for completely hilarious conduct and consistently briefing the press to create discord. I really don't think he's going to change track now, he's been sat in his office working all day.

Well yeah, but if you're firing people for completely hilarious conduct and briefing the press, well, thats a lot of the shadow cabinet then really.

# ¿ Jan 5, 2016 16:11

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

Spangly A posted:

This is true, but has anyone actually heard anything from Hillary Benn? Livingstone was making the point earlier that he's stopped criticising Corbyn since the war vote.

Most of the cabinet are either quiet or not being traced. Nobody else was as vulnerable as Dugher made himself.

You do make a good point, I hope he was made an example of, a kind of 'Stop loving making GBS threads where you eat' statement to the others.

# ¿ Jan 5, 2016 16:33

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

Lisa Nandy has come out and said any reports of her being offered defence were full of poo poo

https://twitter.com/lisanandy?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

# ¿ Jan 5, 2016 17:01

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

LemonDrizzle posted:

Yesterday, he blew his own campaign on train ticket prices off the front pages with the start of the reshuffle. Today, he's ensuring that there's at best minimal coverage of the Tories passing their new housing bill - you know, the one that effectively nationalises all housing associations while simultaneously bankrupting many of them, adds >�100b to the national debt, radically reshapes the planning system in favour of big developers, and basically finishes the job Thatcher started in destroying council housing. And what's he getting as a reward for dragging it out like this? Two days of coverage that make him look like a bumbling incompetent and Labour look like a tottering clown show of a party. It's staggering incompetence.

Don't forget that the tories are beating each other senseless over europe and Camerons had to offer them a free vote to prevent mass resignations. The reshuffle is blocking that too.

# ¿ Jan 5, 2016 17:03

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

Fans posted:

Do you listen to the news? The Reshuffle has barely been mentioned because nothing is happening.

Front page of the BBC right now is about the EU.

The front page of the BBC has a giant story about the eastenders actress whos missing, the cricket, and a link to the reshuffle liveblog. Then in the lower sections, you have a mention about ministers getting a free vote, another link to the reshuffle blog and tim peakes spacewalk, then some sport.

# ¿ Jan 5, 2016 17:11

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

dispatch_async posted:

EU vote is the top story:

Not on the homepage it isn't. You know, the thing most people go to.

# ¿ Jan 5, 2016 17:20

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

Fans posted:

That was a screenshot of the home page.

No it wasn't. Thats the BBC news page. Its not what you go to when you go to bbc.co.uk

# ¿ Jan 5, 2016 17:22

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

dispatch_async posted:

Most people don't visit the top level BBC homepage for the news. I didn't even know they put news snippets on there. I've never seen anybody visit that page.

Most people don't go to bbc.co.uk when visiting the bbc website?

Are you serious? Its like one of the most visited pages on the entire internet.

# ¿ Jan 5, 2016 17:28

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

http://landlord-mps.co.uk/

A list of all the MP's who are landlords.

# ¿ Jan 5, 2016 17:58

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

dispatch_async posted:

Yes I'm serious. I've never seen anybody visit the top level BBC homepage to view the news. They visit news.bbc.co.uk which has now moved to bbc.co.uk/news. That's the 'BBC News' site.

The site you are visiting is the homepage for the entire BBC online presence which includes TV, Radio, iPlayer, Travel, News, Lifestyle, Weather, Food, Sport. I'm not sure the ordering of stories in the various sections on that page is even based on any kind of editorial weighting. It may just be the newest items from each section of the entire BBC site.

You could argue that the homepage is a sign that the BBC News editorial team considers "Kick-start your 2016 diet with these delicious meal plans" or "Sound of 2016 countdown: Blossoms make shortlist" to be a more important news story than "IS video suspect thought to be Briton" or "School children rescued from flood bus" which don't feature at all. It's really that the top level homepage only ever has a few news stories on it and has a lot of the page dedicated to Sport, Food, Music, and iPlayer.

Well thats confirmation bias for you.

# ¿ Jan 5, 2016 18:03

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

dispatch_async posted:

The fact I've not seen people use that page is confirmation bias. The fact that it's not the homepage of the BBC News site is something that's obvious to anybody who has even a vague idea about what the BBC is and how it is organised.

Maybe a lot of people do use that page because they are more interested in cooking, travel and sport than political news stories about non-existent reshuffles (and who can blame them). That still doesn't mean that BBC News is leading with the EastEnders actress murder story on the BBC News website.

The EU vote was the first item on the last BBC News channel roundup at 5. IS video was second billing. Actress murder was 3rd. Reshuffle was 4th. The 6pm headlines will likely be the same if nothing significant happens before then.

The idea that what Corbyn is doing has knocked the EU vote story off the agenda is complete rubbish.

Most people use that page because its the fastest thing to go to. If you look at the stats here http://bbc.co.uk.hypestat.com/

98% of the daily visitors to the bbc website visit the homepage. Only 0.65% of people visit news.bbc.co.uk. You cannot in good faith claim that the homepages choice of news stories has no impact on the people that view the website, since for 4.9 million of the sites 5 million unique visitors per day that is what they see.

# ¿ Jan 5, 2016 18:28

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

Ratjaculation posted:

Hi guys,

What do you all think of the littering fine increase? I thinks it's good but not enough, because only utter cunts litter on purpose and should be fined enough to pay for the running of our wonderful nation.

Source: Worked in woodland management.

I dont think there should be a fine, I think they should have to pick up litter for a day. Why punish the poor when the rich wont notice a 150 quid fine for chucking a starbucks cup out their mercedes.

# ¿ Jan 5, 2016 19:42

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

Oberleutnant posted:

Social discipline is one of those really interesting points to consider when approaching Leftist thought because while the entire left is basically agreed on broad-stroke economics, approaches to individual liberty run the full gamut from anarchist conceptions of the inviolable sovereignty of the individual to full authoritarianism. I know UKMT is very leftist but I'd be surprised if any kind of thread consensus would emerge on that point for that reason.

A while ago when we were talking about Anarchism (like a month or two back) I remarked on what I considered the naive belief among anarchists that community opprobrium would be enough to regulate the behavior of its members without any coercive judicial power - basically peer pressure. I thought it unrealistic because I've basically never seen it work in my own experience - and I've lived for most of my life on exactly the sorts of grey, ugly council estates where one or two families cause endless misery for everybody else. But on reflection, I don't think I've ever lived in a "community" where I knew my neighbours, or felt in any way a part of a communal existence, and I think that's regarded as a fairly common complaint of modern life.
But in the sort of community envisaged by Anarchist and Communist thought - in which people are necessarily constantly engaged in their local community because there is no state superstructure - perhaps that constant intercourse within a community would be enough to promote the sort of civil solidarity that would be able to moderate the behaviour of the worst members.

But then again maybe not. I've not had the opportunity to delve into this in any detail, it's just half-arsed thoughts.

Re: Norway. They have little prison islands where the prisoners live independently in their own little houses with 2 or 3 other prisoners and are trained in real vocations. I think the guards aren't even on the island most of the time. It has a good record as I recall. One story that always sticks with me is a guy who murdered 2 or 3 people with a chainsaw being trained as a lumberjack while he was there. It just always tickled me in some dreadful way.

This is a really informative post, thanks.

# ¿ Jan 6, 2016 00:31

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

That explains the white van picture then. Thornberry got his job. Edit, no she didnt, my bad. Thornberry's got defence.

# ¿ Jan 6, 2016 01:13

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

Pat McFadden sacked over 'disloyalty' to Corbyn.

# ¿ Jan 6, 2016 01:18

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

thebardyspoon posted:

They're opening them even near places that have one already? I'll have a proper look tomorrow but couldn't see any right now, I probably should have mentioned that I am a massive failure and have no qualifications better than my GCSEs so that might put me out of the running, thanks anyway though and I will have a look. One potentially interesting ad I've found was this, http://www.totaljobs.com/JobSeeking/Technical-Customer-Service-Agent_job64365360 which would be tripping my shady as gently caress alarms, except the post code/address is the same building as the HMRC in Reading.

Thats not HMRC, that will be some firm like Global Pay who provide businesses with card terminals.

# ¿ Jan 6, 2016 01:31

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

Corbyn put out a message earlier saying all questions at PMQ's will be from members too. I hope thats not right since Cameron left himself open for a few swipes about Europe.

# ¿ Jan 6, 2016 01:37

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

Tesseraction posted:

Is Jeremy Corbyn complaining? He's left Hilary Benn in position so clearly rebelling against the 'party line' (psst, it was a free vote) isn't the problem.

This post doesn't make any sense. The two that were sacked yesterday rebelled against him personally, Benn didn't rebel, as you've just said, it was a free vote. So he is removing people from his cabinet for doing what he's done throughout his career, which is disagree with the leader.

# ¿ Jan 6, 2016 12:04

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

Tesseraction posted:

So to get your perspective straight, Jeremey Corbyn is a hypocrite because he's kicked people out of his cabinet for briefing against him when he was kept in Tony Blair's cabinet despite routinely briefing against him?

I think if you make a song and dance about wanting open and honest debate in your cabinet to then turn around and sack people like Pat Mcfadden for having the wrong opinions is a bit much.

# ¿ Jan 6, 2016 12:15

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

Tesseraction posted:

Ah yes, by kicking out the two nobodies that people in this thread suspect are the ones leaking memos and briefs, he has absolutely stifled dissent. Poor Hilary Benn, we'll mi-- waitaminute

No, that just shows he ultimately isn't in control of the party and can't get rid of Benn without causing the party to self destruct. That he's only been able to remove 'two nobodies' as you put it says it all. Never mind the fact that the ramifications for kicking out said two nobodies are still being felt.

# ¿ Jan 6, 2016 12:24

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

Tesseraction posted:

Still being felt, not even a day later. Truly a shockwave to define a generation.

I guess we'll see how many other people resign then won't we. Political own goals seem to be Corbyns speciality of late.

# ¿ Jan 6, 2016 12:28

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

Lt. Danger posted:

If he sacks people for dissent, he's a hypocrite. If he doesn't sack people for dissent, he's weak. Okay.

No, if he refuses to sack people for dissent for months then finally has to sack people after repeatedly being stabbed in the back, he's weak.

If he refuses to sack people for dissent because he wants dissenting voices in his cabinet, then changes his mind and sacks people for said dissenting voices, hes a hypocrite.

# ¿ Jan 6, 2016 13:25

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

dispatch_async posted:

Was Blair weak for not sacking Gordon Brown?

Yes.

# ¿ Jan 6, 2016 13:27

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

Lt. Danger posted:

Dishonest and disingenuous.

No it really isn't. Just because you cant see the forest for the trees.

In other news, Stephen Doughty just resigned on live tv.

# ¿ Jan 6, 2016 13:32

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

Say what you will about Liz Kendall, but I doubt she'd have had a member of her shadow cabinet resign on live tv. The utter contempt these MP's have for Corbyn is staggering.

Kevan Jones has apparently gone as well, but not confirmed yet.

# ¿ Jan 6, 2016 13:38

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

Lt. Danger posted:

Actually, it is. Your problem is that Corbyn has a big tent approach and his reshuffle is consistent with that. Why specifically that's a problem for you I couldn't say.

Judging by whats happening today, his reshuffle is consistent with a man trying to hold back the tide by shouting at it.

Kevan Jones resignation has now been confirmed. Resigned over Trident.

# ¿ Jan 6, 2016 13:45

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

Whos taking pictures of these letters?

# ¿ Jan 6, 2016 13:47

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# ¿ May 22, 2024 18:30

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

Darth Walrus posted:

C'mon, we all know it wasn't a hydrogen bomb. No visible effects from the underground detonation, and the earthquake it caused was tiny (5.1 on the Richter scale sounds big until you remember it's geometric). North Korea having any sort of nukes isn't great, but they're still stuck with (especially) crappy fission weaponry.

People are more legitimately worried about their submarine missile tests that mean even though they only have fission bombs they could theoretically drop them anywhere.

# ¿ Jan 6, 2016 13:48

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT January and a bit of February 2016: Marxist Theory and Danczuk Memes

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