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Is it wrong that I wanted to see more Valkyries dance?
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Sep 28, 2016 13:42
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| # ? May 5, 2024 00:44 |
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nuns is an enormous, galaxy spanning organization which means it also has an enormous and complex bureaucracy. that doesn't really mesh with a bunch of attractive young people singing and flying all over the place.
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Sep 28, 2016 13:45
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Serious Frolicking posted:nuns is an enormous, galaxy spanning organization which means it also has an enormous and complex bureaucracy. that doesn't really mesh with a bunch of attractive young people singing and flying all over the place.
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Sep 28, 2016 13:54
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Major Ricardo posted:Is it wrong that I wanted to see more Valkyries dance? That is kinda a major gripe about the show. Don't tease us in the first episode and never deliver.
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Sep 28, 2016 14:02
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Hey remember that whole profiteering, shadow corporation plotline that went absolutely nowhere? What in the sam hell was up with that!Nate RFB posted:Kawamori is a bit of anti-military fellow, isn't he? Or least an environmentalist based on Arjuna and other works from around that time. I bring this up because it just seemed like his use/treatment of UN Spacy/NUNS started to get really weird around the time of Frontier, almost as if he was reluctant to go back to having the main characters as part of an actual military force. So he's tried to have his cake and eat it to by making them PMCs in Frontier and Delta, and consequently made NUNS completely useless at everything and portrayed in a pretty negative light. I bring this up because it's a weakness in Delta's story that I don't think would've been present in SDF, Plus, or even 7 because the UN could just exist as this generic government/military force that isn't really insidious and rather just kind of there as a means to provide the Valkyries. I dunno, didn't Frontier have a few sequences where the grunt pilots got a chance to shine? And in Frontier at least SMS was portrayed as a smaller, more agile auxiliary to the main Spacey force. Meanwhile Chaos is practically its own nation state.
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Sep 28, 2016 18:03
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Mordja posted:Hey remember that whole profiteering, shadow corporation plotline that went absolutely nowhere? What in the sam hell was up with that! Apart from anything else, the biggest, coolest robot on the good guys' side, the Battle Frontier, was a UN Spacy machine.
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Sep 28, 2016 18:05
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Mordja posted:I dunno, didn't Frontier have a few sequences where the grunt pilots got a chance to shine? I vaguely remember a bit where a rando in a not-F-117 was wrecking face for a little bit.
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Sep 28, 2016 18:23
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Mordja posted:I dunno, didn't Frontier have a few sequences where the grunt pilots got a chance to shine? And in Frontier at least SMS was portrayed as a smaller, more agile auxiliary to the main Spacey force. Meanwhile Chaos is practically its own nation state.
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Sep 28, 2016 18:30
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uh, what? i'm not saying that's wrong but i really don't remember it.
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Sep 28, 2016 18:31
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In the final episode you see him open a locket or something with a picture of her inside.
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Sep 28, 2016 18:35
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Yep, it was implied that he wanted access to the Vajira fold communication network to try to find out what happened to Megaroad-01 - a plan that went out of the window when Galaxy did their hostile takeover of the Vajira.
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Sep 28, 2016 18:54
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Mordja posted:Hey remember that whole profiteering, shadow corporation plotline that went absolutely nowhere? What in the sam hell was up with that! He was basically a Ferengi. Rules of Acquisition: #34 - War is good for Business #35 - Peace is good for Business
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Sep 28, 2016 20:12
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some idle thoughts for the thread: would change your mind about this series if wasn't up against Re:Zero or Mob Psycho 100? or what about if it wasn't stacked against kuromurko but IBO or Schwarzesmarken? towards the back half I would be getting Re:Zero on Sunday Mob on monday and then slog though Delta on Tuesday...ish otherwise my take is that when IBO dour and morose, this series would be happy and energetic, but when it stumbled orphans would have just been heating up. Schwarzesmarken was a much better depiction of war and robot combat, but ended up having a perilous story and themes, that were all but enforced by the property it was tied to. while Macross' property elements were basically its greatest strength
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Sep 30, 2016 06:16
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skullhead tethyis posted:some idle thoughts for the thread: It doesn't matter what it is against, since the biggest challenger for this show is what-it-could-have-been. In the end it's just a mediocre show with some decent J-Pop, which is a shame.
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Sep 30, 2016 07:36
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it was a mediocre show with flashes of brilliance
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Sep 30, 2016 07:49
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The only other anime I watched was Zestiria x so no, that didn't bias it into being boring and badly paced.
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Sep 30, 2016 12:07
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I listened to Ikenai Borderline on my way home from work and it still gets me fired up. Hell I rewatched the finale on my phone just to see if a smaller viewing port made it more fun, just in case. Not even a mild adrenaline rush. I suppose when you're in the same season as Thunderbolt Fantasy you'll probably look kinda lame but still.
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Sep 30, 2016 13:12
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skullhead tethyis posted:some idle thoughts for the thread: I mean god drat, Delta made me pine for Macross 7. Never thought I'd see the day. It's a pretty bad show. The nicest thing I can see about it is there were enough cool things at the beginning that maybe, just maybe, I could see a condensed movie version being alright. Nate RFB fucked around with this message at 13:24 on Sep 30, 2016 |
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Sep 30, 2016 13:19
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Nate RFB posted:I didn't watch Mob Psycho and only started/finished Re:Zero in the last couple of weeks, well after Delta was starting to disappoint me. Also never saw Kuromurko and to me Gundam and Macross are so apples and oranges I don't really think it warrants a comparison. Watch mob and kuromukuro. They're very good, Mob is even GREAT.
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Sep 30, 2016 13:21
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I'm probably not going to do either of those things. E: Eh I guess I might do Mob Psycho at some point once I clear up my backlog and there's a slow season.
Nate RFB fucked around with this message at 13:40 on Sep 30, 2016 |
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Sep 30, 2016 13:22
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For real though, if anyone has jpop/idol pop similar to the music in Delta, please do not hold back. This morning you could faintly hear the somehow mournful sound of the hacky-hacky song coming from my cube all the way over by the coffee machine in my quiet grad office.
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Sep 30, 2016 15:37
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skullhead tethyis posted:some idle thoughts for the thread: I basically don't watch new anime anymore until something I personally find interesting lasts beyond 3 episodes of my usual attention span for anime, and then I will follow it for a while. Beyond that, Macross Delta's biggest problem isn't the other shows of the season. It's problem is other Macross shows that are better, which is all of them except 7 and arguably that goofy-rear end Macross 2 OVA movie thing. At least it had interesting battle sequences compared to Delta. I dunno how to 'fix' Macross after Delta. My own preference at this point is LESS emphasis on the singers/jpop and more on the pilots and mecha. This is understandably a pretty controversial opinion about Macross in a post-Frontier/Delta era, where jpop literally saves the day (oh and these guys and gals that fly these pretty sweet jets, they helped too). I don't think such a show could be made anymore. For one, the majority of fans REALLY REALLY REALLY like the direction and ideas of Frontier and Delta, even if the latter turned out to be a shart at the end of the day. The things that define Frontier and Delta are things that sell music CDs, model kits, and other assorted goods. Would I want a more 'serious' show like Plus/Zero? Maybe, but that isn't really something a lot of people want to see, for lots of reasons and all of them are legitimate and good opinions to have. All that aside, I don't think the Macross universe, as is, lends itself to more grounded plots and brutal battles and imperfect 'humans' struggling through a drama, not anymore. It's now a loud, bombastic thing where spectacle and character archetypes mean more, where certain things now happen because it happened in other Macross series so it must happen in the new series, in some way/shape/form. Music has literally been elevated into a form of WMD, of equal and even greater value than any of the fancy mechs we can buy model kits of. Now this stuff isn't inherently bad or wrong, but I do wish that the series didn't feel 'locked' in this particular direction. I mean, Gundam has spinoffs of all kinds that aren't all just GRIM DERP "WAR IS BAD IM GOING TO SLAP/KILL SOME KNOWLEDGE INTO YOU, MAIN PILOT-KUN", so I think Macross deserves to see stuff that isn't just what Frontier, Delta, and 7 pushed the series towards. At the end of the day, all I'd really like is a Macross with an interesting cast, interesting mecha, interesting villains, good music, and good battles. Delta had only one of these things. Frontier had it all even with its own flaws, so its not like its impossible to make a good Macross again, even if it doesn't fit into my own narrow preferences.
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Sep 30, 2016 16:11
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Macross definitely does not need to brutal/gritty/grounded, a major reason I've always preferred it over Gundam is that it is more fantastical and romantic (in the sense that "holy crap flying a transforming mecha jet is awesome!"). Spectacle as well, Macross has traditionally done a great job of building up to its finales. It's a series that absolutely should focus more on fun than drama. Delta did not need to be more serious, or dramatic, its problems stem from being terribly paced and having a lot of boring/uninteresting characters.
Nate RFB fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Sep 30, 2016 |
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Sep 30, 2016 17:17
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the windermerians sucked, but i would call everyone on the other side more undeveloped than uninteresting.
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Sep 30, 2016 17:19
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https://twitter.com/kutsuno/status/781465293256175616?s=09 https://twitter.com/knr1265/status/781134036282449921?s=09 Anyway, despite the many flaws and letdowns, I liked Delta better than both 7 and Zero. But, not nearly as much as the original or Frontier.
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Sep 30, 2016 17:35
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fivegears4reverse posted:I basically don't watch new anime anymore until something I personally find interesting lasts beyond 3 episodes of my usual attention span for anime, and then I will follow it for a while. Beyond that, Macross Delta's biggest problem isn't the other shows of the season. It's problem is other Macross shows that are better, which is all of them except 7 and arguably that goofy-rear end Macross 2 OVA movie thing. At least it had interesting battle sequences compared to Delta. I think the thing is that it's not that singing and singers specifically save the day, it's that it's surprising that they do so. They structured delta in such a way that the singers HAD to be the ones to save the world from the outset - and not even in an interesting way, like say if they were to use their singing in conjunction with their gear to do battle (as we were teased with in the first episode). Each of the other macross series had their own neat twist on how the saving happened. Delta had them just stand on stage and sing harder, despite seeming to promise the opposite in ep1. I'll probably rewatch the original just because I can, now. At least it's DECULTURE.
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Sep 30, 2016 18:55
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Rodenthar Drothman posted:DICK-ULTURE.
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Sep 30, 2016 18:59
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Nate RFB posted:Macross definitely does not need to brutal/gritty/grounded, a major reason I've always preferred it over Gundam is that it is more fantastical and romantic (in the sense that "holy crap flying a transforming mecha jet is awesome!"). Spectacle as well, Macross has traditionally done a great job of building up to its finales. It's a series that absolutely should focus more on fun than drama. Delta did not need to be more serious, or dramatic, its problems stem from being terribly paced and having a lot of boring/uninteresting characters. I dunno, Plus is pretty damned good at being Macross. It's at times funny and fun, it's serious, it really shows off how rad transforming jets can be, and the characters are distinctly imperfect without falling into pretty much all of the dumb garbage everyone in Delta did... when the show remembered they existed beyond their visual appearances alone. Now I don't think I need an entire 26 episodes of Plus because that would get depressing as gently caress, but I think there's lots of cool stuff they could do with Macross that isn't just evoking some very weird memories of a 1990's arcade shooter screaming at us that "MUSIC IS THE WEAPON". There's also the original series, which is pretty much great. I'll go into it in some more detail below. Rodenthar Drothman posted:I think the thing is that it's not that singing and singers specifically save the day, it's that it's surprising that they do so. This really nails it for me, I think, though I don't believe that the premise of Delta's singers saving the day was inherently flawed on introduction. Like everything else with Delta, they just failed to execute it well. Ideally, the singers would have saved the day in an interesting way, akin to how they saved the day in the first two episodes. We'd have had dancing AND fighting valks, and the singers would have ALL gotten involved in the action proper. I mean how crazy was it to see some pop-singer dash up to a fuckin' giant robot and sing at its FACE?! Instead they were literally reduced to backup singers and background characters for the main event: a boring series of valkyrie battles that mostly failed to capitalize on TRANSFORMING F-14S/SUKHOIS HOLY poo poo. I think Macross needs to de-emphasize Music as a Weapon for its next show. Music can be important to the story and the characters in a way that doesn't cause veins to bulge or a successful Instrumentality. You can have a fun show that doesn't basically resort to the fanservice episodes of Delta, you can have a fun show that also shows some dramatic and sometimes awful things, like the original series did. Earth fuckin' DIES in Macross. Billions, dead in minutes. There's a shot during the earliest portions of the Zentraedi attack on Macross city where we see a battlepod ICE this one random SDF pilot/mook with a direct cockpit shot out of nowhere. This is the same show that gave us MISS MACULOSS and everything that came with, which is also the same show that gave us Pineapple Salad, which is also the same show that gave us THE SPACE TUNA, which is the same show that killed Kakizaki in such a casual manner. Really, the original Macross does what both Delta AND Frontier aspired to the best, not because it was the original, but rather because it managed (even with a fluctuating episode count) to juggle these things pretty well for its time. It's not perfect, and there's plenty of criticism that one could level at the original Macross, but there's effort in the writing here that just wasn't present in Delta.
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Sep 30, 2016 20:30
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Even though Frontier didn't lean too heavily on the "music as a weapon" motif more than "music as a communication device" which makes a lot more sense. Frontier had most of the same elements of Delta, but the balance and pacing were so, so much better.
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Sep 30, 2016 20:34
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I never got a good sense of what Walkure were even supposed to be doing in a given battle. Most of the second half is them facing off against the wind dorks, who don't have a Var problem. Like their singing was to meant to annoy/distract them, I suppose?fivegears4reverse posted:I dunno, Plus is pretty damned good at being Macross. It's at times funny and fun, it's serious, it really shows off how rad transforming jets can be, and the characters are distinctly imperfect without falling into pretty much all of the dumb garbage everyone in Delta did... when the show remembered they existed beyond their visual appearances alone. Now I don't think I need an entire 26 episodes of Plus because that would get depressing as gently caress, but I think there's lots of cool stuff they could do with Macross that isn't just evoking some very weird memories of a 1990's arcade shooter screaming at us that "MUSIC IS THE WEAPON". Nate RFB fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Sep 30, 2016 |
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Sep 30, 2016 20:44
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only one side could be supercharged at a time. when walkure was doing well, they could reduce the boost the aerial knights got. but more often, it was freyja completely stripping the knights while boosting hayate alone. walkure never really seemed to do much about those var-controlled armies.
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Sep 30, 2016 20:59
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I'd say not to take away the music, it's the thing that separates macross from other mecha series. It's all in the execution.
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Sep 30, 2016 21:05
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Delta didn't need to be more grounded. If anything, it needed to be more fantastical and whimsical. The parts of Delta everyone liked and were grabbed by were the ridiculous things like breakdancing Valkyries and Tactical Combat Idols.Nate RFB posted:I never got a good sense of what Walkure were even supposed to be doing in a given battle. Most of the second half is them facing off against the wind dorks, who don't have a Var problem. Like their singing was to meant to annoy/distract them, I suppose? A lot of the time Walkure singing was simply a preventative measure to ensure the Windermerians couldn't simply roll in with the Song of the Wind and Var everyone.
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Sep 30, 2016 23:17
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why not both? Star Trek is a sci-fi series known for its campy sillyness in equal measure with its deep commentary and themes hell instead of 26 episodes have 13 eps. at 45 min each, just barrow another track from Star Trek, why not.
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Oct 1, 2016 03:18
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Kanos posted:Delta didn't need to be more grounded. If anything, it needed to be more fantastical and whimsical. The parts of Delta everyone liked and were grabbed by were the ridiculous things like breakdancing Valkyries and Tactical Combat Idols. As I said before, I wonder if the teaser ep1 was received badly by JP fans and they had to re-tool the series into having more "regular" idols.
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Oct 1, 2016 03:44
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Delta was scripted long before the teaser aired. Major last second changes are exceedingly unlikely.
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Oct 1, 2016 08:22
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blogpost on the whole series extension myth: https://gubabablog.wordpress.com/2016/09/18/no-delta-was-not-extended-after-epsiode-3-aired/ Just makes it even more unusual. Did someone in the writing staff get cold feet about valkyries riding Valkyries shooting at Valkyrie-killing Valkyries?
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Oct 1, 2016 09:00
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Was there any major backlash complaints about Frontier? Because a few things seemed like "This isn't frontier, don't worry" type of changes.
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Oct 1, 2016 14:56
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I don't think there was any backlash against Frontier. The series wound up doing pretty well for itself.
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Oct 1, 2016 15:07
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BlitzBlast posted:Delta was scripted long before the teaser aired. Major last second changes are exceedingly unlikely. One major reason that rumors akin to "Delta's teaser reaction changed the story!" or "Sheryl was going to die until fans 'saved' her!" gain traction among fans of, well, any entertainment medium, is the fact that most people who consume media have no clue as to how its made. Their ideas on why something exists, and the actual reasons for a thing existing in a given form, are so divorced from each other that they aren't even in the same universe a vast majority of the time. Generally, anime is a pretty expensive thing to produce for what it is. Even the low budget/low-effort looking stuff still requires paying voice actors, paying the animators, paying the composers, and pretty much everyone involved with the production. Then, if the anime is based on something that exists in another form, you have to pay for the rights to produce it, if its something like Bleach or Naruto, you have to continuously renew it. If the thing is an ONGOING story and your show suddenly catches on, then you can't afford to NOT have filler arcs because it's your way of keeping the property under your control and bringing in the money, while waiting for your manga-ka or light novelist to stop playing loving Idolmaster and actually get some loving work done. Then there's the investment into a merchandising line, where the real money unarguably is. There's marketing. There's cross-media deals. poo poo's complex. Couple all that with how few people actually BUY anime discs anymore, even in Japan, and then add on top of all that the absurd pricing schemes the Japanese have to deal with, AND the ridiculous issues foreign publishers have just trying to acquire a given license, and you basically have this chimera of bullshit that demands all your money. Animation studios still put a whole drat lot on the line just to get a show out the door every week, and if it's a big enough franchise that turns into a big enough flop, a lot of very specialized people are going to find themselves out of work. With all that in mind, this is why shows tend to get written out well in advance of actual animation being produced, particularly if they aren't already based on an existing story (AND EVEN THEN, some things that are written in a Manga or Light Novel do not 100 percent translate to being fine for animation. You gotta workshop this poo poo into something actually watcheable.) You CANNOT, usually, afford to have major rewrites in the middle of a season. Given that profit margins on the animation itself are hilariously thin, and that most anime gets by on merchandising cash flow from other, bigger series owned by a major production company, the conspiracy theory falls apart from the moment it starts as it ignores the realities of production.
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Oct 1, 2016 18:42
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