|
Dr Ozziemandius posted:Still one of the biggest bullshit lies ever pushed. Been a practicing physician for over a decade; still waiting on my big pharma shill bucks. https://www.cms.gov/Newsroom/MediaReleaseDatabase/Press-releases/2014-Press-releases-items/2014-09-30.html
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2016 21:14
|
|
Hell, we don't even get lovely pens and post-it notes anymore.
|
|
| # ? May 2, 2024 13:11 |
|
|
Dr Ozziemandius posted:Curses, foiled again! How did they find our weakness for chintzy little pens with a half inch of ink in them and cheap solar calculators! I can't get enough of them, dammit! I'd sell them my mother's kidneys for another one of those really neat Levitra pens that flipped out in a suggestive manner. This would obviously be better addressed in its own thread, but since I've got you here, do you think there is anything amiss in the way that mental illness is diagnosed and psychoactive medications prescribed? As someone who is just a layman but sees lots of kids pick up a range of seemingly contradictory diagnoses, it seems like psychiatry has a lot less rigor than other branches of medicine.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2016 21:16
|
|
|
Snowman Crossing posted:I hyperventilate every time I hear somebody use a gendered pronoun I hate to think what I might do if I had a gun Unironically, I'm pretty sure this is what underlies most of the anti-gun posters in D&D. They are so personally ill-controlled and paranoid that they fear themselves, and thus cannot trust themselves with dangerous objects, and project that fear onto the rest of the population.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2016 21:19
|
|
|
SedanChair posted:This would obviously be better addressed in its own thread, but since I've got you here, do you think there is anything amiss in the way that mental illness is diagnosed and psychoactive medications prescribed? As someone who is just a layman but sees lots of kids pick up a range of seemingly contradictory diagnoses, it seems like psychiatry has a lot less rigor than other branches of medicine.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2016 21:23
|
|
\
|
Liquid Communism posted:Unironically, I'm pretty sure this is what underlies most of the anti-gun posters in D&D. They are so personally ill-controlled and paranoid that they fear themselves, and thus cannot trust themselves with dangerous objects, and project that fear onto the rest of the population. Right up there with "anti-gun posters fear for themselves so much they selfishly want guns banned so they don't get shot like the victims of mass shooting". Explains everything.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2016 21:31
|
|
|
SedanChair posted:This would obviously be better addressed in its own thread, but since I've got you here, do you think there is anything amiss in the way that mental illness is diagnosed and psychoactive medications prescribed? As someone who is just a layman but sees lots of kids pick up a range of seemingly contradictory diagnoses, it seems like psychiatry has a lot less rigor than other branches of medicine. stealie72 posted:Also a layman and also curious. I'm not sure if it's a lack of rigor, per se, or if it's that our understanding of mental health today is where our understanding of physical health was 100-150 years ago. It also seems like the more we discover about the brain, the more it looks like we're all slaves to our electrical impulses. Especially interesting is how effective electroshock therapy can be. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2016 21:32
|
|
|
NathanScottPhillips posted:It's rich that you're asking me for more info, as you give one sentence responses to everything thrown at you. You ignored 90% of my post for instance and threw out a one-line contradiction like you're god just now, actually. I, huh? I made a snarky comment and then called bullshit on your assertion that mis-prescribed medications are a cause of gun violence/mass shootings, and now I think I'm a god? How exactly does that follow? quote:I'm still waiting for your explanation of why the 2nd amendment doesn't fit in today's world but I doubt you'll ever expand on that opinion. Because it's been proven that first-world developed nations survive just fine without firearms. quote:I never blamed shootings on prescription drugs, in fact I brought the topic up in an effort to learn more about it. What we do know is that every mass shooting (except Giffords' shooting and Bernardino maybe a few others) has been perpetrated by someone diagnosed with mental issues who is taking or was taking medication for their mental health issues. That's far more correlation that you need to ban guns when it comes to accidents in the house going by your posts so I'm not sure why you have trouble with me bringing it up. First, I don't agree that 100% of mass shootings were committed by the mentally ill, and I'm going to need better stats on whether or not they were currently medicated during the time of the attack than your say-so. Being "recently" medicated is horseshit, because of course someone off their meds isn't going to act rationally, that's why they were on the meds in the first place, dipshit. This is also literally conspiracy thinking, as in actual conspiracy theorists look for "takes SSRIs" as an indication that a shooting was a false flag or something. Plus, by shifting the blame to "mental illness" all you do is put forward the idea that only the mentally ill can be violent. And I don't see any reason to believe that and I especially see no reason to accept armchair diagnosis of shooters. There is already a lot of stigma about being mentally ill that prevents people from seeking treatment, and trying to paint all mass shooters as instantly being in that same group just makes it all the harder for people to justify seeking treatment than it already is. Additionally, I do know that the mentally ill are [url= https://www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org/about-us/our-blog/69-no-state/2030-new-study-mentally-ill-are-often-targets-of-violence]more likely to be victims of violence[/url]. quote:Obama's recent Executive Action attempts to help this issue by allowing doctors to breach HIPAA privacy to report gun owners they think are a danger to others. That's a meaningful change that will lead to a reduction in gun deaths. I can agree that it lead to a decrease in suicides, but not mass shootings. quote:We know that cash incentives can lead to unethical behavior throughout all walks of life, so expecting doctors to be immune is silly. Two of those have nothing to do with the kind of situations we're talking about and the third is a guy acting as a drug dealer, not doctors prescribing supposedly dangerous medications.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2016 21:34
|
|
|
Dr Ozziemandius posted:It is something for it's own thread; it's just that the "all doctors are in the pocket of big pharma" thing is a pet peeve. It's a multifactoral problem, really. Psychiatric issues are very, very difficult to pigeonhole into the nice, neat little checkboxes that modern insurance wants for coding and billing purposes, coupled with the fact that insurance also tries very hard to ignore the reality that mental illness is, in fact, a form of illness. Mental health issues are very hard to successfully diagnose and treat, and real treatment depends on lifelong support with both medical and social factors involved. Which is super expensive, and therefore not gonna get approved very often.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2016 21:39
|
|
|
Who What Now posted:Because it's been proven that first-world developed nations survive just fine without firearms.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2016 21:44
|
|
|
stealie72 posted:This, of course, assumes that the US is a first-world developed nation. I'd personally argue that our massive inequalities ensure that there are large swaths of it that are not. So you need your gun to protected you from certain "less-developed" people?
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2016 21:48
|
|
|
Who What Now posted:So you need your gun to protected you from certain "less-developed" people? I'm lucky enough to live out in a boring/safe rural area where the highlight of the police blotter is some kids smoking weed by the power lines. Not everyone is, however, and I support their and my right to protect themselves and their families. Also, why do anti-gun people ALWAYS trot out the "so you can shoot a black guy" thing?
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2016 21:58
|
|
|
stealie72 posted:Yes. that's it. CHUDS and whatnot. Because that is literally what people end up doing.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2016 22:02
|
|
|
MariusLecter posted:Because that is literally what people end up doing. Rent-A-Cop posted:The obvious answer is to form sine kind of committee to ensure that 12.5% of shootings are of black dudes to eliminate any hint of racism in homicide targeting. stealie72 fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Jan 25, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2016 22:07
|
|
|
And if no one ever shoot a black dude you'd be calling us racists. The obvious answer is to form some kind of committee to ensure that 12.5% of shootings are of black dudes to eliminate any hint of racism in homicide targeting.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2016 22:07
|
|
|
Who What Now posted:I, huh? I made a snarky comment and then called bullshit on your assertion that mis-prescribed medications are a cause of gun violence/mass shootings, and now I think I'm a god? How exactly does that follow? quote:Because it's been proven that first-world developed nations survive just fine without firearms. quote:First, I don't agree that 100% of mass shootings were committed by the mentally ill, and I'm going to need better stats on whether or not they were currently medicated during the time of the attack than your say-so. Being "recently" medicated is horseshit, because of course someone off their meds isn't going to act rationally, that's why they were on the meds in the first place, dipshit. This is also literally conspiracy thinking, as in actual conspiracy theorists look for "takes SSRIs" as an indication that a shooting was a false flag or something. I mean, that's a realistic form of gun control but it takes more than 2 seconds to explain... quote:Plus, by shifting the blame to "mental illness" all you do is put forward the idea that only the mentally ill can be violent. And I don't see any reason to believe that and I especially see no reason to accept armchair diagnosis of shooters. There is already a lot of stigma about being mentally ill that prevents people from seeking treatment, and trying to paint all mass shooters as instantly being in that same group just makes it all the harder for people to justify seeking treatment than it already is. Additionally, I do know that the mentally ill are [url= https://www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org/about-us/our-blog/69-no-state/2030-new-study-mentally-ill-are-often-targets-of-violence]more likely to be victims of violence[/url]. quote:I can agree that it lead to a decrease in suicides, but not mass shootings. quote:Two of those have nothing to do with the kind of situations we're talking about and the third is a guy acting as a drug dealer, not doctors prescribing supposedly dangerous medications.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2016 22:07
|
|
|
stealie72 posted:Just so I've got it straight, your contention is that gun owners a bunch of white racists out there just itching to kill a minority? A hue portion of them, yes, absolutely. There's a reason NRA conventions are white as gently caress.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2016 22:08
|
|
|
MariusLecter posted:Because that is literally what people end up doing. Unfortunately black people kill other black people with pistols. So this law wouldn't affect them.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2016 22:09
|
|
|
Who What Now posted:A hue portion of them, yes, absolutely. There's a reason NRA conventions are white as gently caress.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2016 22:10
|
|
|
stealie72 posted:Just so I've got it straight, your contention is that gun owners a bunch of white racists out there just itching to kill a minority? A huge number of them are. I've said it before that one of the things that got me to quit the NRA was the very clear dogwhistling and printing of scary black mugshots in American Rifleman.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2016 22:11
|
|
|
SedanChair posted:A huge number of them are. I've said it before that one of the things that got me to quit the NRA was the very clear dogwhistling and printing of scary black mugshots in American Rifleman. If you can't see that, I assume you think your grandpa is in the Klan too.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2016 22:16
|
|
|
Fantasies of killing are built in to the entire firearms industry, and the nature of white American discourse ensures that the imagined foe is a minority.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2016 22:20
|
|
|
SedanChair posted:Fantasies of killing are built in to the entire firearms industry, and the nature of white American discourse ensures that the imagined foe is a minority.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2016 22:21
|
|
|
NathanScottPhillips posted:Can you demonstrate this assertion by posting evidence? No, we're dealing in the world of ordinary citizens who carry pistols and spare magazines concealed because they think they're going to get in a firefight and need 30 rounds of ammunition. I don't feel any need to provide evidence for the structure of their fantasy world any more than they've done.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2016 22:24
|
|
|
SedanChair posted:No, we're dealing in the world of ordinary citizens who carry pistols and spare magazines concealed because they think they're going to get in a firefight and need 30 rounds of ammunition. I don't feel any need to provide evidence for the structure of their fantasy world any more than they've done. Just last week a man used his concealed carry gun to save lives and stop a criminal, without firing a shot: http://www.adn.com/article/20160119/armed-man-who-helped-stop-anchorage-mall-robbery-i-carry-so-i-m-ready Also, most people carry an extra magazine to clear a jam, not because they need the bullets. Most carry guns have only 6 or 7 rounds.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2016 22:28
|
|
|
The thing is, he's not entirely wrong. Fear of "the other" is a time-honored tradition for those in power to keep the rabble in line, and is demonstrated across American history. But to suggest that all gun owners are salivating at the chance to kill a minority is just silly.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2016 22:31
|
|
|
Can we at least agree that calling gun owners 'racist white people who want to kill minorities' or any variant of that is racist and shouldn't be said by people or organizations that champion anti-racism?
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2016 22:32
|
|
|
NathanScottPhillips posted:It wasn't an assertion. In fact what I said was "we can talk about..." as in, let's open the discussion up which has happened. I also made about 5 or 6 other points in the same post but you didn't bother quoting them (because you agree with me?). I said you think you are god because you have had a pattern of replying to full paragraph posts with many levels of detail with a single sentence reply without any follow up. Like you've done below. Then I don't think you know what a god is. I didn't quote the entire post either because I didn't feel they were relevant to the point/joke I was going to make, were redundant, or I just plain wasn't interested in pursuing a conversation in those topics. quote:Well, first of all please provide some back up for that position. Pretty much all the countries with stricter gun control laws than the ones we have now. quote:For instance, Ukraine a modern developed European country, right now is undergoing a form of tyranny for which the 2nd amendment was specifically written. We have seen in Louisiana during hurricane Katrina law and order break down. Storms are predicted to get worse with climate change. In the past few years we've seen riots in the streets all over the country not before seen since 1992 LA riots or the Civil Rights Movement. The Supreme Court has ruled that police officers have no duty to protect anyone except themselves. There are lots of reasons that I see for the 2nd amendment existing in today's world. Besides the Ukraine, how exactly would guns have solved anything during Katrina? How would guns have improved the recent riots? Near as I can tell guns, and more specifically the cops using them, was part of the problem that caused the riots in the first place. So what are you insinuating should have been done? The protestors all be gunned down in the streets by quote:I believe that if someone commits mass murder, or even just plain old murder then they have mental issues. I think most people think that way. I also think that if a medication produces suicidal or murderous tendencies when someone stops taking it, then prescriptions of that medication should be scaled back and the people who do need it should have a way to be checked up on. Maybe we need to add another line to a 4473 that asks if a person is taking xxx type of drugs or undergoing mental health treatment and maybe restrict that class of people from firearm ownership. I do not give a gently caress what you think. You aren't a trained psychologist who can make those diagnosis, and most other people aren't either. An appeal to popularity isn't convincing, so I don't give a poo poo how many people believe that either. As for restricting access to firearms, I agree with it in principal, but in reality all it does is further stigmatize mental illness and make undiagnosed people who own guns that much less likely to pursue seeking help and treatment. So it's low-priority at best, harmful at worst, and in either case we need to seek avenues that increase chances of those few mentally ill that are a danger to themselves or others to seek effective treatment. quote:I am putting the blame on people who commit mass murder, whereas you place the blame on firearms. I am not blaming someone for having an illness. I don't blame someone for having Ebola, but I would blame a doctor who let that person out of quarantine early. Mentally ill being more likely to be victims of violence just proves my assertion that we aren't doing enough to care for these people in the US. And I don't place the blame on firearms, I simply acknowledge that firearms make mass murder much easier to commit for those that wish to do so and makes their attacks much deadlier. And don't pretend you aren't blaming people for having an illness. Maybe you honestly don't think that's what your doing, but it's absolutely what it is. When you make blanket statements like "all murderers are mentally ill" what kind of message do you think that sends? What kind of implications does that carry? Do you even give a poo poo? It sure doesn't seem like it, because all your actions seem purely punitive. quote:Why not? Especially considering lots of mass shootings involve suicide by the shooter and often times a suicide note or manifesto left behind, I think suicide and mass shooting sometimes overlap. Therefore it makes no sense that you separate them. Of course you only gave me a single one sentence reply so who knows what you think. And for the mass shooters that don't end in suicide? Do you think every single suicidal person is a potential mass murderer? Do you know absolutely anything at all about mental health issues? Why the gently caress wouldn't i separate them considering there are vastly more suicides than mass murders? Do you see why I don't believe you when you say you don't blame people for mental illness when you insinuate that people at danger for suicide are indistinguishable for mass murderers? quote:You said that doctors wouldn't alter their recommendations or act unethically just to make a buck, I showed they would. Ask for something different next time. I asked for doctors prescribing medications known for making people a danger to people around them. Here's a second sentence so you don't flip your poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2016 22:36
|
|
|
NathanScottPhillips posted:Can you please demonstrate your assertions by posting evidence?  Man bites dog story, that fuels the fantasies of all the people who need to justify their fetish.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2016 22:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 2, 2024 13:11 |
|
|
Pauline Kael posted:To people who are anti bill of rights I suppose. To rational adults though, those really aren't analogous things at all. the bill of rights says you can keep and bear arms. doesn't say anything about guns. trying to extend the inalienable human right to upper limbs to murder toys is a crazed example judicial overreach.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2016 22:45
|
|
