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This is fun, it got me to play the game again and watch Highwang's LP. Time to be that annoying Hypothetical Autistic Man! I'll note: both you and Highwang dumped on dual-wielding. It's not as bad as you think. The game's description is misleading. It doesn't reduce all damage by 40%, rather just the base weapon damage modified by skill. Bonuses from stats and traits still apply as normal. Dual-wielding beats out heavy weapons on a Minotaur Barbarian in terms of straight DPS just because it's so easy for them to get a ridiculous amount of strength. And it can backstab, meaning it can occasionally deal close to the per-hit damage of heavy weapons and also hit three to four times as fast. The issue with dual wielding is that it involves a whole lot more clicking, so you may not be able to get all your attacks in before your window closes. However, multiple fast attacking characters can stunlock enemies pretty well, so a dual wield barbarian and a dual wield rogue definitely have their place in a min maxed team depending on your play style. Personally, I think hitting slow, but very hard is a lot more comfortable than frenetic clicking, but frenetic clicking does do more damage if you can pull it off. If you're not a minotaur barbarian, a ratling rogue, or a character made into a god by two or three alchemists, it's not very good. Another thing: I don't think Backbiter is all that great. It made sense for Highwang because it's a good way to heal without alchemy in the early game, but in a four man team I wouldn't take it. The Forgotten River is significantly easier than the Twigroot Tunnels and as soon as you complete that, you can get the Punch Dagger (seriously, you just have to kill about 4 mummies in the Ruins and then leave), which is both much faster than Backbiter and does a lot more damage as well. So Backbiter helps you with the first boss and two fairly easy areas, then becomes obsolete. It's a good thing to take for your first playthrough, and if you're thorough you're almost certain to get it anyway. But if you play the game again, it's probably not worth the gold key in comparison to other things you could use one to get very early.
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Mar 7, 2016 14:39
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Heithinn Grasida posted:This is fun, it got me to play the game again and watch Highwang's LP. As much fun as it is to optimize things, I'd like to point out that the game is (secretly) not very difficult. You can beat the game with any combination of classes using pretty much whatever, and it'll probably work out. 
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Mar 7, 2016 17:57
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Olesh posted:As much fun as it is to optimize things, I'd like to point out that the game is (secretly) not very difficult. You can beat the game with any combination of classes using pretty much whatever, and it'll probably work out. Heithinn Grasida fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Mar 7, 2016 |
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Mar 7, 2016 18:25
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Heithinn Grasida posted:Someone will inevitable make exactly this post in any thread about any game. People probably say it more about Dark Souls than any other game. Maybe I still need to git gud, but personally, I find the game can be tough sometimes even on normal. Especially some encounters that we haven't seen yet can be really bullshit if you don't know exactly how to approach them, don't make sure you're as strong as possible before attempting them or don't have a very well built party. There are objectively easier ways to approach the game and harder ways, and I don't think it's somehow unreasonable to discuss them. Game difficulty is an interesting study. I've seen what makes an RPG harder especially in speed running; it's when it gets unpredictable due to physical challenges and/or random number generators. Difficulty gets more subjective when this happens; I had better practice, I felt better at the time, I got a better pattern 1st try, etc. You could think of action based gameplay like random number generators; when players are telling you a game is easier than you think, there's probably an exploit to get rid of all that unpredictability. Even playing against physics there's kites, bottlenecks, memorable patterns, wall clips, etc. Cheating can be subjective, but most people seem to hate it when it cheapens the adventure. But heck this is all for our own personal experience so you tip the balance as far as you like. If you're losing by your own faults it's always good even if your fault is not knowing something (you still need an in-game way for players to find stuff out). However, there are objectively bad things and one consistent thing I've seen is not respecting your player's time. A player's time should only be wasted if they lost or are in a losing state (you died, back to your last save). Lots of classic RPGs think mandatory grinding is a valid challenge, but it should be more of a punishment/penalty like getting a game over; a player's lifeline is time (their interest/investment in the challenge), some have more endurance than others. Grinding is like dying; it should be the player's own fault or motivation to do so, not the only way to win. Any game should only waste your time as a penalty. Another example of objectively bad is Ni No Kuni; so much mandatory time wasting like back-to-back backtracking. But what if there were hidden shortcuts? Then my wasted time could be considered my own fault, but not so much if it's "Buy the Guide" level obscure. I don't play much Grimrock so I don't know any of its strategies or exploits. RasterPunk fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Mar 7, 2016 |
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Mar 7, 2016 19:50
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Keep in mind that we bash dual-wield because none of us put rogues on point. They're the only class that does it "right," and there are other better classes to put up front than a rogue. Outside of them a character is just doing 60% damage with each weapon, which in the case of light weapons is pretty drat low.
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Mar 7, 2016 20:11
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 I piss off Travis in multiple ways this week. Yoshi continues to laugh his rear end off at everyone's expense.
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Mar 7, 2016 20:55
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Heithinn Grasida posted:Someone will inevitable make exactly this post in any thread about any game. People probably say it more about Dark Souls than any other game. Maybe I still need to git gud, but personally, I find the game can be tough sometimes even on normal. Especially some encounters that we haven't seen yet can be really bullshit if you don't know exactly how to approach them, don't make sure you're as strong as possible before attempting them or don't have a very well built party. There are objectively easier ways to approach the game and harder ways, and I don't think it's somehow unreasonable to discuss them. This isn't really a call to  . Grimrock 2 is more "difficult", combat-wise, than Grimrock 1 in a straight up comparison, despite the fact that the first Grimrock really feels like it had a bigger overall density of enemies. Part of the overall perceived difficulty in Grimrock 2 is, like Dark Souls, going to vary based on the individual path through the game as well as how people adapt to the additional challenges that Grimrock 2 demands.EDIT: Pastebinned here to avoid wall of texting the thread. Wall of vaguely on-topic rant about difficulty and fairness in games RasterPunk posted:I don't play much Grimrock so I don't know any of its strategies or exploits. Whether or not something is a tactic/strategy vs a bug/exploit really comes down to intended design. You could say that the ability to move in combat and avoid all incoming damage by being mobile was an exploit in Grimrock 1, but in Grimrock 2 it's an accepted (and required) part of play. I don't want to derail the thread too much with this sort of chatter, though, so I'll remind everyone (including myself) again that difficulty is subjective and your mileage may vary. Edit: Jesus christ, that was a wall of text. I'm going to throw it in a pastebin so it shits up the thread less Olesh fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Mar 7, 2016 |
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Mar 7, 2016 21:18
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That wasn't a very impressive archive to be honest. Not even enough to fill one small shelf.
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Mar 7, 2016 22:04
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This is basically one huge D&D game where the DM is favoring Cricket Dazzler for some reason. Next he's gonna get a bazooka or something.
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Mar 7, 2016 22:20
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Highwang posted:This is basically one huge D&D game where the DM is favoring Cricket Dazzler for some reason. Next he's gonna get a bazooka or something. Cricket Dazzler throws fireballs. He is the bazooka.
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Mar 8, 2016 05:28
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Highwang posted:Keep in mind that we bash dual-wield because none of us put rogues on point. They're the only class that does it "right," and there are other better classes to put up front than a rogue. Outside of them a character is just doing 60% damage with each weapon, which in the case of light weapons is pretty drat low. What I was saying is that that's not actually true. You're doing 60% of damage plus strength or dexterity. It's hard for most characters to have enough strength or dexterity to make dual wielding worth it, but a minotaur barbarian, for example, will likely keep pace with a minotaur rogue for most of the game and will always surpass one at high levels in spite of the rogue's lower penalty just because barbarians get so much strength. Rogues are good for dual wielding dex weapons because boosts to dexterity are much rarer than boosts to strength, but if you're using strength weapons, barbarians are much better because they have equal to superior damage and absurdly high health. If you do the math, I'm pretty sure dual wield beats heavy weapons on a minotaur barbarian in straight DPS except against things with heavy protection. However, I think heavy weapons are still "better" almost all the time because it's easy to apply your maximum DPS to a target efficiently, but much more difficult to do so with dual wielding unless you just tank enemies. Again, none of this is considering backstabbing, which isn't hard to pull off in most fights and puts a good dual-wielder light years ahead of anything else, but is also fairly unreliable.
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Mar 8, 2016 07:31
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In my playthrough, I had a ratling rogue who (by level 12), with a properly timed punch-backstab and a speed potion, could single-handedly cut down most enemies in the game in under 10 seconds. It balanced out by him being squishy as hell, but if I had invested in Reach, he probably would've been pretty broken (mind, I did have to dump 5 skillpoints into alchemy). Complemented by a knight and two battlemages, my team was constantly shuffling around, it was good fun. So a barbarian would basically be that, but with the durability of a knight? That's kind of absurd. Bonfiesta fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Mar 8, 2016 |
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Mar 8, 2016 19:56
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Well, I guess your ratling rogue was a dex character. A barbarian does dual-wield strength weapons better than a rogue and is a lot tougher, but strength isn't as powerful as dex. Dex is the god stat in this game since it governs damage, accuracy and evasion. But the two end up pretty balanced because it's easy to stack ridiculous amounts of strength on a minotaur barbarian and it's hard to get very high dex without using all your stat up resources on one character. A barbarian isn't necessarily stronger than a dex rogue because he needs a lot more skill points to be effective. You need two extra points in critical if you want to backstab, and while critical is a great skill on its own, those are points that could go to armor for evasion and protection or dodge for evasion and cooldown reduction. You also need accuracy or you won't be able to hit anything. So a rogue can afford heavy armor and dodge 3, or alchemy, in your case, more easily than a barbarian. But the barbarian will have a lot more hit points and possibly do a little more damage.
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Mar 9, 2016 10:37
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 Pubert is an awful husband. And his dad is a jerk.
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Mar 15, 2016 01:00
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To be fair, cattle are used as beasts of burden so Ogre Taint being the team's beast of burden at least makes sense.
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Mar 15, 2016 06:18
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Chimera-gui posted:To be fair, cattle are used as beasts of burden so Ogre Taint being the team's beast of burden at least makes sense. And he's getting saddle bags to distribute the weight! Also skulls.
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Mar 15, 2016 06:37
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I thought that the monsters were getting silly because of that thumbnail. I assumed it was some kind of ice monster with a cannon. Was not expecting you to freeze a boss. Also, that mimic made me actually yelp when you started looking into it and it was just mouth.
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Mar 15, 2016 17:30
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There's one thing I want to master the most in terms of presentation for video games; sound design. That Rat Boss's cannon has such a satisfying boom to it and that reload is the cherry on top. Despite the fact that you're taking massive damage it's still badass.
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Mar 15, 2016 21:24
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Poor Pubert and his Crustacearranged marriage with crab wife.
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Mar 16, 2016 06:14
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 The group comes face-to-face with way too much teeth and Ogre Taint's namesake. I'll also be posting a channel update later to talk about what will be happening with TSN overall, where Yoshi's been, etc.
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Mar 21, 2016 11:03
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I hope Yoshi's alright  also, do enemies respawn when coming back to an old area?
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Mar 21, 2016 19:38
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FinalGamer posted:I hope Yoshi's alright He's fine. Eventually they do if you've been gone from a place for a while, just not always in as big a number as before. Good way to farm for more turtle or warg steaks.
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Mar 21, 2016 20:14
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The Sand Warg actually looks like a hyena trying to walk like vampire bat.
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Mar 21, 2016 20:26
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TACO BELL IS A SOMETIMES FOOD
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Mar 22, 2016 05:32
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Crane Fist posted:TACO BELL IS A SOMETIMES FOOD Taco Bell is sometimes food.
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Mar 22, 2016 06:11
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Taco Bell is a sometimes "food"
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Mar 22, 2016 06:13
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It's Pubert. He's the real villain.
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Mar 22, 2016 08:09
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  Arachnophobes, do not watch. Lovers of pretty scenery with nothing but spiders in it, please do!
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Mar 28, 2016 21:50
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I have no idea what provoked 10 minutes of joke theft discussion but okay.
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Mar 28, 2016 22:49
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Probably the more decent Homestar Runner impressions I've heard tbqh
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Mar 29, 2016 03:12
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Yoshi consistently clowning on Travis despite not even being there is the best part of this LP.
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Mar 29, 2016 10:10
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Those mimics get me every single time. Dick move that you unlocked one first. But how does that even work? Does that mean you could lock its mouth shut if you had the proper key for it somehow?
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Mar 29, 2016 11:27
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Well, if a big nasty monster was attacking you, and you could disable it's one method of attack with a sturdy lock, it would be pretty tempting to do so don't you think? 
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Mar 29, 2016 12:47
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I'm pretty sure Ogre Taint was holding that buckler in the wrong slot. I have a distinct memory of it actually belonging in the arm slot like bracelets and poo poo. I'm also wondering why you aren't using the fist dagger on Pubert since it has better base damage than the backbiter and is also a dex weapon. It's not like he really needs that +5 accuracy bonus. I mean sure the backbiter has that health leech attack but you could just keep it in the secondary weapon set and whip it out when you need that. ousire posted:Well, if a big nasty monster was attacking you, and you could disable it's one method of attack with a sturdy lock, it would be pretty tempting to do so don't you think?
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Mar 29, 2016 17:07
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Glad I waited for this thread to build up some before reading it, games like these are always more fun to binge. Especially with a gimmick like Pubert's. Also, just to throw my two cents in on a conversation that probably happened months ago, but the older Bomberman LPs are what got me into SHN. I won't defend the games themselves, but I will fight anyone who thinks they weren't fun LPs. 
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Mar 31, 2016 04:48
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   The single longest dungeon/update of the LP. Luckily it culminates in my favourite part of the game. Get sand in your joints. Nordick posted:I'm also wondering why you aren't using the fist dagger on Pubert since it has better base damage than the backbiter and is also a dex weapon. It's not like he really needs that +5 accuracy bonus. I mean sure the backbiter has that health leech attack but you could just keep it in the secondary weapon set and whip it out when you need that. Pubert finally trades up hardcore in 13-3. ThornBrain fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Apr 4, 2016 |
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Apr 4, 2016 17:30
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"Surprise me."  This lp is all kinds of amazing.
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Apr 4, 2016 18:57
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I always feel compelled to give mad ups to anyone that references The Lottery. Lottery in June, Pubert'll get fatter soon.
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Apr 4, 2016 19:18
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13-1 is fixed
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Apr 4, 2016 19:21
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"Friendship can't be an element cause if you can do this on your own then you have no friend!" My only friends are the fish I eat and my KNIFE
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Apr 4, 2016 20:42
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