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Eh, there's not a huge difference between rad-flooding Mount Weather and shooting someone imo, and even on that front I think Clarke's still in the lead. Shimrra Jamaane posted:Allowing the missile to hit Ton DC were the only morally questionable killings that Clarke did, and it was more Lexa's doing than hers. The 300 fried grounders were trying to kill them all and Mt Weather loving had it coming. Oh entirely agreed here, but then again I never met a fictional dictator I didn't love so I'm biased. Seriously my favourite character in the new Star Wars was General Hux.
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Jan 14, 2016 09:59
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Cat Army 
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The Iron Rose posted:Eh, there's not a huge difference between rad-flooding Mount Weather and shooting someone imo, and even on that front I think Clarke's still in the lead. Yeah but my point is, it's not about killing. Clarke has a big "kill count", but she's not a warrior, she's a queen. Octavia is a loving blood and guts eviscerate you warrior. The plausibility of this transformation isn't important. She is a loving avatar of valor and battle. I mean, it's possible they'll go in a different direction, but season 2 is basically dedicated to showing her transformation. While it's clear that they aren't afraid to kill characters off, this isn't Game of Thrones. They're building her up for a reason.
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Jan 14, 2016 10:06
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Snak posted:I'm reasonably confident that we will see a huge spike in Octavia's kill-count this season. Like I said, bring on the Badass Warrior Princess Olivia action  I really think she's going to end up leading the Grounders somehow. She's basically cut ties with the Arkers, and going solo doesn't seem like a direction for her arc to go in. Either she ends up replacing Lexa somehow and then has to face off against Clarke, or maybe her replacing Lexa will open up the way for an actual Grounder/Arker alliance.
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Jan 14, 2016 21:17
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I don't see how she's cut ties with the Arkers. She chose saving her brother over sticking with the traitor Grounders and her boyfriend's not welcome with them either.
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Jan 14, 2016 21:24
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The fact that Lexa was Anya's second and Anya was a tribal leader and Anya managed to become a more or less imperial leader given both their ages tells us a lot about the speed at which grounder politics moves. It's also hinted that there's some kind of non-democratic, non-bloodlineal ritual process by which leaders are "called", so it's entirely possible that Octavia could succeed Lexa entirely by the grounders own laws and traditions. Maybe she kills a mutant gorilla with only her sword and that's a sign that she is the next leader or something. I was also thinking about the children's attitudes towards not wanting to give up Finn and claiming his actions were necessary. Despite how they've all risen to the occasion of being tossed on the ground, these are all children whose only experience with consequences for breaking the law was a slap on the wrist, in a society that executed any adults who broke the law. They literally have never had to deal with real consequences before and are used to being given second chances. This is one part of their big wakeup call that everything is for real now. Which is what season 2 was really about. In season 1, everything they did was out of necessity and ignorance. their hand really was forced by the immediate threats to their survival. In season 2, they made real choices where they had options. And those choices had and will have real consequences.
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Jan 14, 2016 21:27
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Okay, maybe 'cut all ties' was a little strong. But she's more Grounder than Arker at this point. Hell, she was two steps removed from being the Commander at one point (being the Second of Lexa's Second, right?)
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Jan 14, 2016 21:28
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My hope for the story going forward is that Lexa's decision to make peace with the Mountain Men has caused serious dissension within the grounder ranks. Not only did they not get vengeance against the legendarily evil force that had been tormenting them for decades but one of the Sky People was able to almost single handily get it done it herself. That makes Lexa look really weak and foolish. I hope that there are many grounders who have grown to respect Clarke, maybe even revere her, for bringing down the Mountain Men.
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Jan 14, 2016 21:30
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I hope they're pissed when they find out that the Sky People won the battle. Lexa made them all look like cowards.
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Jan 14, 2016 21:34
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WarLocke posted:Like I said, bring on the Badass Warrior Princess Olivia action The Grounders are semi-feral tribal hillbillies that could get absolutely loving smoked by any reasonable advanced group that wanted to mess with them. Like they were literally a crop for Mt. Weather, that's how much all their warrior bullshit matters. They are walking potatoes. What did Octavia ever do to you that was so terrible you'd wish her leadership of those gently caress ups? Mulva fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Jan 14, 2016 |
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Jan 14, 2016 21:40
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My hope for the show is that the Curse Of The 3rd Season doesn't hit it and ruin the show like it did Community, Nikita and Arrow before it.  EDIT: and Burn Notice.
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Jan 14, 2016 21:40
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Boogaleeboo posted:The Grounders are semi-feral tribal hillbillies that could get absolutely loving smoked by any reasonable advanced group that wanted to mess with them. Like they were literally a crop for Mt. Weather, that's how much all their warrior bullshit matters. They are walking potatoes. What did Olivia ever do to you that was so terrible you'd wish her leadership of those gently caress ups? My counterpoint: 
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Jan 14, 2016 21:45
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:My hope for the story going forward is that Lexa's decision to make peace with the Mountain Men has caused serious dissension within the grounder ranks. Not only did they not get vengeance against the legendarily evil force that had been tormenting them for decades but one of the Sky People was able to almost single handily get it done it herself. That makes Lexa look really weak and foolish. I hope that there are many grounders who have grown to respect Clarke, maybe even revere her, for bringing down the Mountain Men. Lycus posted:I hope they're pissed when they find out that the Sky People won the battle. Lexa made them all look like cowards.  Boogaleeboo posted:The Grounders are semi-feral tribal hillbillies that could get absolutely loving smoked by any reasonable advanced group that wanted to mess with them. Like they were literally a crop for Mt. Weather, that's how much all their warrior bullshit matters. They are walking potatoes. What did Olivia ever do to you that was so terrible you'd wish her leadership of those gently caress ups? Numbers > *
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Jan 14, 2016 21:45
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Who is Olivia?
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Jan 14, 2016 21:48
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hollylolly posted:Who is Olivia? A girl who is surprisingly sane considering she was raised under the floorboard. Seriously, that poo poo was wack
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Jan 14, 2016 21:51
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WarLocke posted:A girl who is surprisingly sane considering she was raised under the floorboard. Counterpoint: her name is Octavia
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Jan 14, 2016 21:55
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hollylolly posted:Counterpoint: her name is Octavia I... have failed this thread. 
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Jan 14, 2016 21:58
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WarLocke posted:I... have failed this thread. Sorry, thread rules mean you have to be spaced. I don't make the rules I just enforce them. 
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Jan 14, 2016 22:01
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Snak posted:these are all children whose only experience with consequences for breaking the law was a slap on the wrist I would not personally call "thrown in solitary for X years, where X is 18 - their age, then probably executed" a slap on the wrist.
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Jan 14, 2016 22:03
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Fenrisulfr posted:I would not personally call "thrown in solitary for X years, where X is 18 - their age, then probably executed" a slap on the wrist. Those drat kids got away with everything, including murder!
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Jan 14, 2016 22:13
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Fenrisulfr posted:I would not personally call "thrown in solitary for X years, where X is 18 - their age, then probably executed" a slap on the wrist. Yeah, that's true, but at the same time, life on the Ark was already pretty restrictive. I know that solitary is not joke, but they were already living under authoritarian rule in small grey rooms. edit: Boogaleeboo posted:The Grounders are semi-feral tribal hillbillies that could get absolutely loving smoked by any reasonable advanced group that wanted to mess with them. Like they were literally a crop for Mt. Weather, that's how much all their warrior bullshit matters. They are walking potatoes. What did Octavia ever do to you that was so terrible you'd wish her leadership of those gently caress ups? I was going to make this part of my earlier post but I had to cut it short. The grounders are the culture that evolved from and the descendants of people who where badass enough to survive the aftermath of nuclear war. It's not surprising that, like the Ark and the Mountain Men, their ways are savage and brutal. It's also worth noting that most of the time we've seen grounders, we have just been seeing warriors. The village that Finn attacked seemed to be a pretty normal, peaceful society. The fact that Lexa can mobilize an army a thousand strong within a day proves that they have significant organization. Grounders are known to have bullshit tree-elf ninja skills. With the Mountain Men gone and no missiles coming for grounders who pick up guns, whoever arms the a grounder army will become a serious player. Imagine if Octavia becomes a smaller leader, like Anya was, commanding a hundred grounders, but uses her diplomatic ties to the sky people to arm her warriors with guns. She would then become a major player among the grounder tribes. Snak fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Jan 14, 2016 |
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Jan 14, 2016 22:28
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Boogaleeboo posted:The Grounders are semi-feral tribal hillbillies that could get absolutely loving smoked by any reasonable advanced group that wanted to mess with them. Like they were literally a crop for Mt. Weather, that's how much all their warrior bullshit matters. They are walking potatoes. What did Octavia ever do to you that was so terrible you'd wish her leadership of those gently caress ups? It's more like when the Vikings tried to colonize Canada. It didn't work out since despite their big technology advantage the vikings were badly outnumbered and the indians also used guerilla tactics against them. Probably the other big reason why the native americans lost was due to diseases such as smallpox decimating 75% to 90% of the population base. Good luck fighting off invaders after the basic population base got almost wiped out.
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Jan 14, 2016 23:44
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WarLocke posted:My counterpoint: Yup, this is the most badass gif. Like, whenever we get Futurama-style animated paper, all Octavia's actress needs to do is enlarge that and submit it as her resume. VagueRant posted:My hope for the show is that the Curse Of The 3rd Season doesn't hit it and ruin the show like it did Community, Nikita and Arrow before it. Isn't Arrow's third season the one on right now? Is it really just awful? 
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Jan 15, 2016 00:10
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Best moment of joy from S2 was when Murphy was stuffing his face with food after reaching the lighthouse.
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Jan 15, 2016 00:25
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Johnny Truant posted:Yup, this is the most badass gif. Like, whenever we get Futurama-style animated paper, all Octavia's actress needs to do is enlarge that and submit it as her resume. Season 4 is on now. Season 3 really was just awful
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Jan 15, 2016 03:24
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I hope the season ends with Jaha finally managing to sacrifice himself for the greater good and waking up as an AI.
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Jan 15, 2016 08:37
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CeeJee posted:I hope the season ends with Jaha finally managing to sacrifice himself for the greater good and waking up as an AI. this is the origin story for a pretty crazed AI
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Jan 15, 2016 08:43
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I know you guys seemed to all enjoy the Wild Ride, but I still think the show would a lot better off if they'd left Jaha dead after season 1. Him drinking fancy liquor and watching earth through a window was a nice little sendoff to the character.
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Jan 15, 2016 08:56
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Yeah. The scenes on the Ark were the weakest aspect of season 1. Jaha's journey was the weakest part of season 2. Although I liked the payoff. It showed they are committed to more than just "how will the sky people live with the grounders". This show continues to remind me of Planet of the Apes.
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Jan 15, 2016 09:00
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etalian posted:It's more like when the Vikings tried to colonize Canada. The situation here though is orders of magnitude worse for the Grounders. They are still using spears and swords when the other side has missiles and death fog. You can't lay a trap against a missile strike on your children. Nor can you use guerrilla tactics against a horrific death fog. The only thing they could bring their force to focus on for the last near century was....reavers, who are ultimately just their own people drugged out of their gourds. They could literally only fight themselves, all for the grand prize of nothing. They had an overwhelming numerical advantage against misfit children, and they died screaming and on fire because of how massive the technological gulf is. Even asymmetrical warfare assumes the enemy actually shows up somewhere for you to fight them. If they don't and are killing you anyway, you are pretty screwed. And all those things that they never found a way to overcome are still in play. And into the mix now we add an A.I.. At least the Ark crew has some folks with basic empathy and a desire to be good people. They are unlikely to immediately start launching missiles and repairing the death fog pipes just because the Grounders screwed them over. An A.I. that potentially started the great war that killed off most of humanity? Maybe they can do a really sweet flip and throw a sword at it or something.
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Jan 15, 2016 10:38
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The technology gulf was only because the Mountain Men held them back. Now that they're gone they can actually start advancing again.
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Jan 15, 2016 14:03
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muscles like this? posted:The technology gulf was only because the Mountain Men held them back. Now that they're gone they can actually start advancing again. Yeah, you could miss it because it was like a ten second scene but the Grounders explained that every time one of them got their hands on a say, a gun, the reprisal from the Mountain Men was huge.
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Jan 15, 2016 14:20
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Yeah, but that poo poo isn't a light switch. It's not "Ok, now we can act like people again!" and suddenly they understand mainframes and the internal combustion engine. Without help that kind of thing would take them generations, and they pissed off the only people who could have potentially helped them. And they did it in such a way that it'd take something pretty cataclysmic to ever get help from them again.
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Jan 15, 2016 14:36
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Boogaleeboo posted:Yeah, but that poo poo isn't a light switch. It's not "Ok, now we can act like people again!" and suddenly they understand ... the internal combustion engine. According to the trailer this actually happens.
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Jan 15, 2016 14:58
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Boogaleeboo posted:it'd take something pretty cataclysmic to ever get help from them again. An AI with a nuke seems like it might count?
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Jan 15, 2016 17:13
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 And I looked and behold, a pale woman! And her name was Clarke, and Hell followed with her. And she was given authority over all of Ton D-C, to kill with knife and with fire and with radiation and by the mutated beasts of the zoo. Antifreeze Head fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Jan 15, 2016 |
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Jan 15, 2016 17:53
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On a related note, I also just realized literally last week that Tondc was literally Washington D.C. I am not an observant woman.
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Jan 15, 2016 19:23
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OK!! Lets start the Clarke season 3 body count pool. I'm going with 500 minimum.
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Jan 15, 2016 19:40
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HUGE SPACEKABLOOIE posted:OK!! Lets start the Clarke season 3 body count pool. I'm going with 500 minimum. Depends on how fast she gets ahold of Jaha's nuke.
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Jan 15, 2016 20:02
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I'm going to say 100, give or take ten deaths.
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Jan 15, 2016 20:11
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HUGE SPACEKABLOOIE posted:OK!! Lets start the Clarke season 3 body count pool. I'm going with 500 minimum. Did you post this on a phone? It looks like your auto-correct changed million to minimum.
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Jan 15, 2016 20:11
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