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I think he and the EMs already made their grandkids drink it or some poo poo. Once. Another article, from Rolling Stone, might be a bit more readable and with a clearer timeline and more facts.
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Jan 28, 2016 04:18
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I learned from the Maddow special that Flint doesn't have one school nurse, or grocery store... wtf
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Jan 28, 2016 04:42
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Damonic posted:I learned from the Maddow special that Flint doesn't have one school nurse, or grocery store... wtf
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Jan 28, 2016 05:02
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SgtScruffy posted:Someone help me understand the conservative defense of this - the right has been blaming this on the EPA not saying anything or doing anything until it was too late. To what extent is this true, and to what extent does it matter? I'm guessing someone will figure out they can blame this all on too-much Big Government, because there's an emergency manager who isn't accountable to anyone!
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Jan 28, 2016 05:06
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Rand alPaul posted:I'm guessing someone will figure out they can blame this all on too-much Big Government, because there's an emergency manager who isn't accountable to anyone!
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Jan 28, 2016 05:15
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Oracle posted:Keep in mind Flint is collared by several white-flight towns/cities/villages including Flint Township which is where Miller Rd a major retail district is located (and which doesn't use Flint city water), some quite nice (Grand Blanc, Flushing to a lesser extent). There's plenty of grocery stores in the area its not like an isolated community with nothing around it for miles. Still sucks to live in Flint proper especially if you don't have a car. They closed the last major grocery store in city limits (and it was on the outskirts) which was Meijers on Pierson Rd. last year just after Christmas and bulldozed it. That place was old enough I remember going there as a kid, it was where everyone did their major grocery shopping. Meijers is a Michigan chain that's like a Walmart or a Super Target before either were a thing. You can buy everything there from groceries to snow tires to clothing and furniture. Im from San Antonio, so forgive my ignorance. Is Flint an outer metro town, much like New Braunfels and Bandera is to us? That still really sucks though. Most of the towns around SA have at least one HEB (major texas grocery store)
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Jan 28, 2016 05:16
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Not familiar with the term 'outer metro' or your area, sorry. Flint is a typical rust belt city that suffered from white flight in the 60s/70s and industrial flight in the 70s/80s/90s (after NAFTA). Its population has halved in 40 years from 200,000 to just under 100,000, and a distinct majority of those people left are black and poor. It is ringed by collar towns where a lot of those white folk fled to and still live that were small towns in their own right (Mt. Morris, Flushing, Burton, Grand Blanc, Davison etc). The one big industry in Flint was making cars and General Motors was the big player in town. Now where the factories stood is just a bunch of brown fields and acres upon acres of empty lot, lots of abandoned houses, vacant land etc. Think Detroit on a smaller scale.
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Jan 28, 2016 05:43
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drat. That just makes me more sad. Aside from the attention with the water crisis, I hope that this also puts attention on similar poor towns. I grew up in Shawnee Oklahoma, which has the same population size and is also quite poor. But it's full of white evangelicals and we had loving grocery stores, school nurses, and non poisoned water
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Jan 28, 2016 05:54
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Nckdictator posted:Everyone was hoping for bi-partisan cooperation but not like this. When it comes to reporting "Sir, I think we're poisoning the city." and shifting off the blame, it's pretty popular to pass it off. Also, it's not like Federal bodies haven't tried to cover this poo poo up before. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_contamination_in_Washington,_D.C._drinking_water Eskaton fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Jan 28, 2016 |
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Jan 28, 2016 06:11
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Wherein a USAToday editor writes to remind us that the lead levels in Flint, MI are a lot better now than 10 years ago and that people should just pipe down because they are "lucky to suffer the lead 'poisoning' [sic] rates plaguing the city today."
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Jan 28, 2016 07:31
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Your Dunkle Sans posted:Wherein a USAToday editor writes to remind us that the lead levels in Flint, MI are a lot better now than 10 years ago and that people should just pipe down because they are "lucky to suffer the lead 'poisoning' [sic] rates plaguing the city today."  This article really should've just stopped at the part where it was pointing out that the alarming situation in Flint helps to emphasize the remarkable gains in water quality we've made over the past few e: timespan clarification Quorum fucked around with this message at 07:42 on Jan 28, 2016 |
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Jan 28, 2016 07:38
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Quorum posted:
Reminder that USAToday is America's #1 most-read newspaper.  e: #3 in circulation, but close enough.
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Jan 28, 2016 07:40
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The greatest (most supervillainish?) thing Snyder ever did was leaving the elected leaders in place when he appointed EM's. He muddied the waters before any thing terrible even happened. Now he's able to say "well, these democrats also voted for this so it's not our fault!" even though the EM's had full autonomy. Look at comment sections, they're toeing the line so efficiently. I'm always a little impressed at how well the right is in messaging.
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Jan 28, 2016 14:24
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RevKrule posted:The greatest (most supervillainish?) thing Snyder ever did was leaving the elected leaders in place when he appointed EM's. He muddied the waters before any thing terrible even happened. Now he's able to say "well, these democrats also voted for this so it's not our fault!" even though the EM's had full autonomy. Yeah, you hit the nail on the head. There was at least one reader opinion in the printed USAToday issue I got the editorial from blaming the Democrats and all their horrible goverent spending that lead to this situation, so therefore it's all the Dummycrat's fault.  There's also the underlying vein of "All the black Poors in Flint got accidentally genocide/eugenicided? Good." too.
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Jan 28, 2016 16:28
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Your Dunkle Sans posted:Yeah, you hit the nail on the head. There was at least one reader opinion in the printed USAToday issue I got the editorial from blaming the Democrats and all their horrible goverent spending that lead to this situation, so therefore it's all the Dummycrat's fault.
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Jan 28, 2016 19:25
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Damonic posted:drat. That just makes me more sad. Aside from the attention with the water crisis, I hope that this also puts attention on similar poor towns. It's basically the story of this entire region of the nation, really. Industry has been fleeing since the 70's and taking all of the good jobs with it. When Republicans end up in charge poo poo just gets worse. Every GOP candidate's platform is "we're going to create jobs by giving preferential treatment to companies to get them to move here!" What ends up happening is spending goes down, everything in the state gets worse, and what few jobs are created aren't given to people in the state. The money that is given to the companies in grants or favorable taxation laws just vanishes into the ether. The promises are never kept and the Republicans just pass the blame, accuse Democrats of sabotage, or claim we just didn't freedom hard enough so let's freedom harder in the next election and I swear it will work this time. Meanwhile children are going hungry, nobody can get a proper education, and hordes of people are stuck in a poverty feedback loop. Crime goes up because desperate people whose benefits ran out start running drugs to feed their kids and keep the lights on and the Republican politicians somehow just loving magically find room in the budget to build fifteen more prisons. Which communities all over the state will be falling over themselves to have built locally because of the promises of jobs. This was a big reason PA in particular ended up hating all over Corbett and booting his rear end to the curb. He decreased the education budget and was proposing cutting the state's education budget in half. Top to bottom. The whole loving system. Meanwhile he was ratcheting the prison budget higher and higher. This is like...what Republicans do. gently caress the poor, poison them and put them in jail. ToxicSlurpee fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Jan 28, 2016 |
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Jan 28, 2016 20:08
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ToxicSlurpee posted:It's basically the story of this entire region of the nation, really. Industry has been fleeing since the 70's and taking all of the good jobs with it. When Republicans end up in charge poo poo just gets worse. Every GOP candidate's platform is "we're going to create jobs by giving preferential treatment to companies to get them to move here!" What ends up happening is spending goes down, everything in the state gets worse, and what few jobs are created aren't given to people in the state. The money that is given to the companies in grants or favorable taxation laws just vanishes into the ether. The promises are never kept and the Republicans just pass the blame, accuse Democrats of sabotage, or claim we just didn't freedom hard enough so let's freedom harder in the next election and I swear it will work this time. Uh, the auto industry and economy in Michigan at least has been growing since Snyder, so I'm not too sure if that's a great argument to pick.
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Jan 28, 2016 20:42
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Eskaton posted:Uh, the auto industry and economy in Michigan at least has been growing since Snyder, so I'm not too sure if that's a great argument to pick. But what good has it been doing for everybody but the auto industry? Any gains that happen during a Republican government tend to go to business and nobody else.
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Jan 28, 2016 21:25
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ToxicSlurpee posted:But what good has it been doing for everybody but the auto industry? Look, I know deregulation is poisoning people but industrial production is more profitable now.
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Jan 28, 2016 22:07
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Oracle posted:Keep in mind Flint is collared by several white-flight towns/cities/villages including Flint Township which is where Miller Rd a major retail district is located (and which doesn't use Flint city water), some quite nice (Grand Blanc, Flushing to a lesser extent). There's plenty of grocery stores in the area its not like an isolated community with nothing around it for miles. Still sucks to live in Flint proper especially if you don't have a car. They closed the last major grocery store in city limits (and it was on the outskirts) which was Meijers on Pierson Rd. last year just after Christmas and bulldozed it. That place was old enough I remember going there as a kid, it was where everyone did their major grocery shopping. Meijers is a Michigan chain that's like a Walmart or a Super Target before either were a thing. You can buy everything there from groceries to snow tires to clothing and furniture. holy crap, what happened to all the Krogers and VGs and poo poo, there were like 3 in the city when I left
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Jan 28, 2016 23:30
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ToxicSlurpee posted:But what good has it been doing for everybody but the auto industry? More jobs? Higher minimum wage? I don't know how D&D does its capitalist exploitation adjusted economy figures.
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Jan 28, 2016 23:41
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Eskaton posted:More jobs? Higher minimum wage? I don't know how D&D does its capitalist exploitation adjusted economy figures. Michigan is a poverty-stricken hellhole as is the rest of the Rust Belt. "More jobs" is a poor metric because 5 jobs would be "more" but do gently caress all to fix the problems. How many people did the new jobs lift out of poverty and how does that help the students whose schools are in ruins? Jobs don't uncontaminate the water nor do they automatically fix the problems the state has, which are many.
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Jan 28, 2016 23:54
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Michigan is a poverty-stricken hellhole as is the rest of the Rust Belt. "More jobs" is a poor metric because 5 jobs would be "more" but do gently caress all to fix the problems. What do you want from me, dude. I'm just saying prior to this BS, Snyder was a pretty okay governor for the most part. PS: I live in Michigan too.
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Jan 29, 2016 00:20
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http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/flint-water-crisis/2016/01/28/amid-denials-state-workers-flint-got-clean-water/79470650/ whoops quote:LANSING -- In January of 2015, when state officials were telling worried Flint residents their water was safe to drink, they also were arranging for coolers of purified water in Flint's State Office Building so employees wouldn't have to drink from the taps, according to state government e-mails released Thursday by the liberal group Progress Michigan.
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Jan 29, 2016 00:32
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ToxicSlurpee posted:But what good has it been doing for everybody but the auto industry? Here's the thing: the auto industry is everything in Michigan. Even if you don't work for the big three, you almost certainly work for someone that does-suppliers, contractors, designers... drat near the entire economy of Michigan, and SE Michigan especially, is entirely dependent on the economic well being of Fiat-Chrysler Automobiles, the General Motors Corporation, and the Ford Motor Company. With that being said, Snyder hasn't done jack poo poo for the auto industry in Michigan, or its workers. He just had the good fortune to come in at the tail end of the recession, after the bailout and the Cash for Clunkers program that allowed GMC and Chrysler to get back on their feet. He's a disingenuous shithead that likes to pretend he's above the insanity in the legislature (But will pass whatever regressive as gently caress policies they give him), is unquestionably corrupt, and the state will be far better off the moment he's out of office.
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Jan 29, 2016 00:39
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Eskaton posted:What do you want from me, dude. I'm just saying prior to this BS, Snyder was a pretty okay governor for the most part. Stripping people of a republican government isn't what a "pretty okay" governor does.
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Jan 29, 2016 00:46
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Eskaton posted:What do you want from me, dude. I'm just saying prior to this BS, Snyder was a pretty okay governor for the most part. Sounds like you drank too much water. Sorry about that.
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Jan 29, 2016 00:49
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Eskaton posted:What do you want from me, dude. I'm just saying prior to this BS, Snyder was a pretty okay governor for the most part. I don't know the job that Snyder has been doing "For the most part," but even if you cure cancer in that part you're a bad governor if the rest of your tenure includes appointing the lead poisoning duo EMs and whoever else at MDEQ who covered it up.
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Jan 29, 2016 01:11
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RevKrule posted:The greatest (most supervillainish?) thing Snyder ever did was leaving the elected leaders in place when he appointed EM's. He muddied the waters before any thing terrible even happened. Now he's able to say "well, these democrats also voted for this so it's not our fault!" even though the EM's had full autonomy. Snyder used his secret dark money fund to hire two PR firms to do that water muddying. The latest to come out today about the crisis - Snyder insists he didn't know anything about lead poisoning until October of 2015 yet Lansing started shipping bottled water to state offices in Flint as early as January 2015 so state employees had a safe source of drinking water. http://www.progressmichigan.org/2016/01/document-snyder-admin-trucked-in-clean-water-for-state-building-in-january-2015/ Here is a link to the most comprehensive timeline. Michigan Radio has covered this story since it began in 2013. https://cdn.knightlab.com/libs/time...om=2&height=650 HUGE PUBES A PLUS fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Jan 29, 2016 |
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Jan 29, 2016 02:00
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Eskaton posted:Uh, the auto industry and economy in Michigan at least has been growing since Snyder, so I'm not too sure if that's a great argument to pick. There was a global recession in 2008, one of the effects of which was bottoming out the auto industry which hit a disastrous nadir in 2008-2009. Auto manufacturers all over the world were seriously affected by it but the Big 3 were in a particularly bad position, so they received bailouts and restructuring (or, at least Chrysler and GM did) and substantially changed their business strategies. Since late 2010-2011 the US economy in general began a slow recovery, and the improving outlook in combination with the bailouts and restructuring, the position of the automotive industry in Michigan has improved significant from its historic low-point in 2008-2009. Snyder took office in 2011. What you're doing here is crediting Snyder with something that had nothing to do with him, because those positive changes were facilitated by (A) events that took place mainly while Granholm was governor and mostly involved the federal government anyway, plus (B) a nationwide recovery. e: edited for grammar and clarity Schenck v. U.S. fucked around with this message at 03:51 on Jan 29, 2016 |
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Jan 29, 2016 03:42
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Eskaton posted:What do you want from me, dude. I'm just saying prior to this BS, Snyder was a pretty okay governor for the most part. Poisoning a city is one hell of a mulligan.
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Jan 29, 2016 04:34
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Lucy Heartfilia posted:Well, does the water at least taste good? Romans loved fruit syrup from fruits boiled in lead cauldrons, because the lead made it taste sweeter. The Romans were acutely aware and understanding of lead poison to the point that Galen I think it was gave comprehensive and very accurate descriptions of lead poisoning in foundry-workers explicitly attributed to galena ore smelting, that repeated appeals for the abandonment of lead piping for water delivery in favour of clay pipe are recorded, that warnings were given against unscrupulous cauldron manufacturers lining the copper kettles for boiling must down into defrutum with lead instead of the proper non-toxic tin, and that merchants selling wine sweetened with white lead were constantly lambasted in public as scum for peddling poison.
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Jan 29, 2016 04:44
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Salt Fish posted:http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/flint-water-crisis/2016/01/28/amid-denials-state-workers-flint-got-clean-water/79470650/ rscott posted:holy crap, what happened to all the Krogers and VGs and poo poo, there were like 3 in the city when I left
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Jan 29, 2016 06:22
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ReadyToHuman posted:The Romans were acutely aware and understanding of lead poison to the point that Galen I think it was gave comprehensive and very accurate descriptions of lead poisoning in foundry-workers explicitly attributed to galena ore smelting, that repeated appeals for the abandonment of lead piping for water delivery in favour of clay pipe are recorded, that warnings were given against unscrupulous cauldron manufacturers lining the copper kettles for boiling must down into defrutum with lead instead of the proper non-toxic tin, and that merchants selling wine sweetened with white lead were constantly lambasted in public as scum for peddling poison. Oh, that's interesting. They weren't as dumb about lead than I thought.
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Jan 29, 2016 07:21
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Eskaton posted:Uh, the auto industry and economy in Michigan at least has been growing since Snyder, so I'm not too sure if that's a great argument to pick. It was former Governor Granholm and President Obama who bailed out the auto industry in Michigan. Snyder took over in 2011 and took all the credit. Snyder has always been a terrible governor. Thanks to him freedom to freeload was forced on us AFTER Snyder said right to work was wrong for Michigan. While he told everyone Detroit wasn't going bankrupt, his secret right hand man Richard Baird was vetting candidates for emergency manager of Detroit. The secret NERD fund, cutting a billion dollars from the state school budget, raising taxes on poor people and old people, cutting taxes for corporations by 2 billion dollars and creating a massive deficit. Do you not realize the water situation in Detroit and Flint is deliberate? The plan is to sabotage the city-run water services and insist the only way to fix the problem is privatize it. Snyder is nothing but a vulture capitalist plundering the state.
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Jan 29, 2016 12:31
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ReadyToHuman posted:The Romans were acutely aware and understanding of lead poison to the point that Galen I think it was gave comprehensive and very accurate descriptions of lead poisoning in foundry-workers explicitly attributed to galena ore smelting, that repeated appeals for the abandonment of lead piping for water delivery in favour of clay pipe are recorded, that warnings were given against unscrupulous cauldron manufacturers lining the copper kettles for boiling must down into defrutum with lead instead of the proper non-toxic tin, and that merchants selling wine sweetened with white lead were constantly lambasted in public as scum for peddling poison. Do you have any any articles or something on the subject? I think this Roman history stuff is really interesting.
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Jan 29, 2016 21:55
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ReadyToHuman posted:Poisoning a city is one hell of a mulligan. "Well other than that, how was the theater Mrs. Lincoln?"
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Jan 29, 2016 22:14
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Lucy Heartfilia posted:Oh, that's interesting. They weren't as dumb about lead than I thought. We only know they were dumb about lead because they knew, and wrote about how dumb they were about lead, ironically.
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Jan 29, 2016 22:24
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I live in District 5 but thankfully I live in Bloomington, IN where I've been here over 6 months now and I haven't met a single person who doesn't closely follow the water supply and have strong opinions on it. It's the strangest thing, but now I'm glad that if anybody is going to get poisoned from neglect it's not going to be here because there's probably hundreds of people doing home testing as a hobby. Lake Monroe is apparently an extremely good source and locals are very proud/protective of it
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Jan 30, 2016 01:41
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Snyder gets heckled at local Ann Arbor bar. http://markmaynard.com/2016/01/snyder-watch-2016-dinner-at-old-town/
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Jan 30, 2016 01:41
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