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Latest Rachel Maddow installment. Flint mentioned among other disasters caused by Snyder. http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/snyder-policy-ideas-yield-string-of-disasters-637488707995 And some photos from this week's weekly protest in front of Snyder's downtown Ann Arbor condo.   
HUGE PUBES A PLUS fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Mar 5, 2016 |
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Mar 5, 2016 16:52
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The residents of Flint MI have just filed a class-action lawsuit against Governor Rick Snyder on the lead-tainted water supply issue. On my phone, just heard it on NPR. E: Link: http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/03/07/469506291/families-seek-class-action-status-in-federal-lawsuit-over-flints-water Teriyaki Koinku fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Mar 7, 2016 |
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Mar 7, 2016 21:21
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Snyder's testifying in front of Congress today. You can watch here. Full text of his opening statement here.
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Mar 17, 2016 15:51
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I just saw this thread. Is it against the rules to post a comedy article I wrote about this crisis if the publication gets $0.00 from a person viewing it?
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Mar 17, 2016 22:00
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Oracle posted:Snyder's testifying in front of Congress today. You can watch here. What a poo poo show. The GOP screamed at the EPA chief that she didn't do enough, nevermind this is the same GOP screaming the EPA has too much oversight and it should be eliminated. Snyder of course ever since this scandal broke insists all levels of government are to blame, when it was his appointee who only answers to him who made the decision to use the Flint River.
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Mar 17, 2016 22:03
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Twerkteam Pizza posted:I just saw this thread. Is it against the rules to post a comedy article I wrote about this crisis if the publication gets $0.00 from a person viewing it? Posting anything that tracks back to your personal, real-life identity on these forums is almost always a horrendously bad idea even if it doesn't violate a specific rule.
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Mar 17, 2016 22:47
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Posting anything that tracks back to your personal, real-life identity on these forums is almost always a horrendously bad idea even if it doesn't violate a specific rule. I would just copy and paste but you could still find the headline :/
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Mar 17, 2016 22:51
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HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:What a poo poo show. The GOP screamed at the EPA chief that she didn't do enough, nevermind this is the same GOP screaming the EPA has too much oversight and it should be eliminated. Snyder of course ever since this scandal broke insists all levels of government are to blame, when it was his appointee who only answers to him who made the decision to use the Flint River. I've also seen people IRL argue Snyder's excuse point-for-point. 
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Mar 17, 2016 23:13
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Anyone have a good article on the EPA's role in this?
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Mar 17, 2016 23:32
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The hearing is being aired on C SPAN right now. Join in if you can. http://www.c-span.org/video/?406540-1/hearing-flint-michigan-water-contamination
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Mar 18, 2016 01:01
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Thoughts? We know Snyders' rarely in Lansing unless he has to be. He hides out in his $2.5 million condo in A2.
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Mar 18, 2016 15:16
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Tiler Kiwi posted:humans do not hold an innate resistance to killing. in modern times there's a lot of possible guilt associated with it, but it's only social programming and can be pretty easily rationalized away.
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Mar 18, 2016 15:23
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So is anything likely to come from the hearings yesterday?
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Mar 18, 2016 19:18
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Mr. Nice! posted:So is anything likely to come from the hearings yesterday? The EPA's budget will be slashed and more people will be poisoned.
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Mar 18, 2016 21:59
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Goatman Sacks posted:The EPA's budget will be slashed and more people will be poisoned. That was my take away. Snyder and the Republicans were going after the EPA pretty hard, and Snyder is great at passing blame.
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Mar 18, 2016 23:30
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HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:Thoughts? We know Snyders' rarely in Lansing unless he has to be. He hides out in his $2.5 million condo in A2. Wait, is someone trying to defend him by doing suspiciously illegal activities? What the hell.
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Mar 19, 2016 07:10
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SocketWrench posted:Wait, is someone trying to defend him by doing suspiciously illegal activities? Are they trying to defend him by saying he's an absentee governor?
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Mar 19, 2016 07:24
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i am harry posted:You're very wrong; Yes they do. We dehumanize military enemies so our soldiers can slaughter them as animals, rather than people. When a person kills another person, it is often only because they see them as something less than "person" That is because our culture abhors the act of killing and the use of violence without a very good reason. Aversion to use of violence is a learned behavior; dehumanization helps us overcome the guilt associated with the act, but that guilt is defined by our culture and varies from place to place, and especially comparing our time period with something like the Roman Empire (who, incidentally, were shame based rather than guilt based, and didn't really do dehumanization, either. Hell, they'd kill you and then write poo poo about how awesome and noble you were because it made the Romans look even better since they were the ones to put you down). its all pretty off topic; I'd recommend looking up stuff about PTSD in past societies compared to modern ones re: the use of violence. e: vvvv IronicDongz posted:Citation needed? As I understand it aversion to violence, especially violence to humans, is deeply instinctual. If you actually have a legitimate source that says otherwise I'd love to see it. I don't have any sort of direct study on nonviolence being learned (although maybe stuff exists that can be found with google, idk), but I got some relevant stuff. First one is a reddit link and its more about PTSD, but it relates to the "innateness" of violence aversion. https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1j6ssm/are_there_any_indications_of_combat_ptsd_in/ My own understanding on violence is mostly influenced by reading history and noting how you can have completely different reactions to violence. There's also the criminological views on violence; one book you can look at on it is this book on violence and shame, which talks about how criminal subcultures, which are frequently shame based, can push people into rather remorseless violent action that appears sociopathic to an outside observer, without really dealing in dehumanization. ee: Another good book is All God's Children, which goes over violence in the USA and what happens when people are not raised in a nonviolent, secure environment. Tiler Kiwi fucked around with this message at 09:34 on Mar 19, 2016 |
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Mar 19, 2016 07:33
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Tiler Kiwi posted:Aversion to use of violence is a learned behavior;
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Mar 19, 2016 08:36
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Is it at all possible that the officials responsible for keeping Flint's water clean poisoned the water themselves so they could keep it all? Corporations are already buying the rights to take water from lakes and rivers so that they can bottle it up and make a profit off of it. Is it possible that the water was poisoned so that the corporations could have all the water for themselves?
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Mar 19, 2016 08:48
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Frykte posted:Is it at all possible that the officials responsible for keeping Flint's water clean poisoned the water themselves so they could keep it all? Corporations are already buying the rights to take water from lakes and rivers so that they can bottle it up and make a profit off of it. Is it possible that the water was poisoned so that the corporations could have all the water for themselves? I highly doubt that. Conspiracy theorists will latch onto stuff like that though. There is no reason to do something like that, especially in Michigan. Snyder just didn't want to spend money on properly ensuring the water was clean enough to drink. That's all it comes down to. Officials high up don't want to spend money because it makes them look better if they keep their budgets low.
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Mar 19, 2016 09:01
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Let's see, which is more likely: a cacophony of fuckups at just about all levels of government (mainly state) lead to a terrible and entirely preventable tragedy in their rush to save a buck, or it's all actually part of a corporate conspiracy that would've required decades of preparation to create the perfect storm of plausible explanations for the coverup?
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Mar 19, 2016 09:02
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Regalingualius posted:Let's see, which is more likely: a cacophony of fuckups at just about all levels of government (mainly state) lead to a terrible and entirely preventable tragedy in their rush to save a buck, or it's all actually part of a corporate conspiracy that would've required decades of preparation to create the perfect storm of plausible explanations for the coverup? It's also possible that Snyder watched this one too many times. http://www.metacafe.com/watch/5378456/bill_murray_snl_classic_commercial/
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Mar 19, 2016 09:06
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SocketWrench posted:Wait, is someone trying to defend him by doing suspiciously illegal activities? No, they want to prove he plausibly had no idea it was going on because he's never in Lansing, as in doesn't bother to show up for work any more, he has people handling everything for him. He never leaves Ann Arbor.
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Mar 19, 2016 14:26
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HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:No, they want to prove he plausibly had no idea it was going on because he's never in Lansing, as in doesn't bother to show up for work any more, he has people handling everything for him. Don't worry folks. He's not directly responsible for the crisis through malice, merely through gross negligence
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Mar 19, 2016 15:38
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When Snyder first took office in 2011, he hired a man named Richard Baird and gave him an office next to the office the taxpayers of Michigan provide for the absentee governor to work. Richard Baird set up a dummy LLC claiming he was a consulting firm with one client, Rick Snyder. Baird is the guy who hired Detroit emergency Manager Kevyn Orr, orchestrated the Project Skunkworks illegal school voucher meetings, and met with EMU regents in an Ann Arbor steakhouse to pitch the soon to be out of business Education Achievement Authority. I would not be the least bit surprised that Snyder lets his staffers handle the job of Governor while he sits in his condo in Ann Arbor and hires people to hire bakeries to make expensive custom-made cakes for his wife.
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Mar 19, 2016 16:20
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SocketWrench posted:Wait, is someone trying to defend him by doing suspiciously illegal activities?
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Mar 19, 2016 17:17
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^ I just find the need to defend him confusing. Generally when you are in charge and place certain events in process and ignore the negative outcomes you are the one held responsible.IronicDongz posted:Citation needed? As I understand it aversion to violence, especially violence to humans, is deeply instinctual. If you actually have a legitimate source that says otherwise I'd love to see it. Granted I've no sources except old social studies type dealings, but as I've heard some experts say is that man is really complex when it comes to violence. We've only been "civilized" for a short time and living in fairly safe societies for a lot less time, but ancient man restrained from violence to those around him because in small groups everyone had to help everyone. Being openly hostile was damaging to your continued survival while violence to other groups was less restrictive because your group came first and other groups were suspected threats upon first meeting.
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Mar 19, 2016 19:22
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Frykte posted:Is it at all possible that the officials responsible for keeping Flint's water clean poisoned the water themselves so they could keep it all? Corporations are already buying the rights to take water from lakes and rivers so that they can bottle it up and make a profit off of it. Is it possible that the water was poisoned so that the corporations could have all the water for themselves? I'm pretty sure no corporation is willing to take that risk in loving Michigan. We've got thousands of springs and surrounded on three sides by huge lakes. This isn't loving Death Valley where every drop of water is worth more than gold. Hell, you can dig down ten feet in places and strike water.
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Mar 19, 2016 19:27
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It's called the land of a thousand lakes for a reason.
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Mar 19, 2016 19:33
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Mr. Nice! posted:It's called the land of a thousand lakes for a reason. When did the US annex Finland?
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Mar 19, 2016 20:03
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I was actually thinking of minnesota, but close enough.
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Mar 19, 2016 20:40
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Michigan has more inland lakes than Minnesota.  Anyway. The point of unredacting the emails is not to prove Snyder did anything wrong, it's to prove he's not doing the job he was elected to do at all.
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Mar 19, 2016 21:10
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SocketWrench posted:I'm pretty sure no corporation is willing to take that risk in loving Michigan. We've got thousands of springs and surrounded on three sides by huge lakes. This isn't loving Death Valley where every drop of water is worth more than gold. Hell, you can dig down ten feet in places and strike water. Supplying a city is different from buying a well point at Home Depot. Switching Flint to Lake Huron would further undermine DWSD's budget which Snyder could easily break up and sell to private companies using his extremely broad gubernatorial powers.
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Mar 19, 2016 21:12
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IronicDongz posted:Citation needed? As I understand it aversion to violence, especially violence to humans, is deeply instinctual. If you actually have a legitimate source that says otherwise I'd love to see it. SocketWrench posted:Granted I've no sources except old social studies type dealings, but as I've heard some experts say is that man is really complex when it comes to violence. We've only been "civilized" for a short time and living in fairly safe societies for a lot less time, but ancient man restrained from violence to those around him because in small groups everyone had to help everyone. Being openly hostile was damaging to your continued survival while violence to other groups was less restrictive because your group came first and other groups were suspected threats upon first meeting. Lawrence Keely's War Before Civilization: The Myth of the Peaceful Savage is a good read about how we all really are, and for the most part always have been, a murderous pack of apes and truly pacifistic societies are historical anomalies which only develop under special circumstances. Captain_Maclaine fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Mar 19, 2016 |
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Mar 19, 2016 21:52
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Lawrence Keely's War Before Civilization: The Myth of the Peaceful Savage is a good read about how we all really are, and for the most part always have been, a murderous pack of apes and truly pacifistic societies are historical anomalies which only develop under special circumstances. Don't pacifistic also tend to get wiped out by their neighbors?
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Mar 19, 2016 22:07
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Don't pacifistic also tend to get wiped out by their neighbors? Yeah, that's why they only persist under special circumstances ie: geographic isolation, or the ability to get the hell away from and/or accomodate their neighbors. Keely's book is really an interesting one as one of his bigger arguments is, at the risk of oversimplifying his thesis, that latter 20th century anthropologists and archeologists "pacified the past" by intentionally ignoring evidence of organized prehistoric violence, an inclination which he puts down to subconscious guilt over the world wars and a neo-Roussoean desire to find in pre-civilized societies an innocence and peacefulness they believed mankind had lost due to industrial civilization.
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Mar 19, 2016 22:13
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Yeah, that's why they only persist under special circumstances ie: geographic isolation, or the ability to get the hell away from and/or accomodate their neighbors. I think one of the things is that people realized that mankind is perfectly capable of industrializing violence if given the tools. We'd like to believe that the world wars were flukes instigated by a handful of monsters rather than believing that we're just a species of monsters. Which is also I think why people like to believe odd things about situations like Flint. How could somebody be so inhuman?!? Well that's the problem; they're being perfectly human. We're nasty, nasty things when given the tools to be. The difference between violence in prehistoric times and now is in the tools. Ugg McThroggun couldn't make mustard gas and kill other people by the thousands. He had to walk up to people individually and do it in person with something he made out of a rock.
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Mar 19, 2016 22:21
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"pre-modern humans were nonviolent and in tune with nature" - no megafauna ever
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Mar 19, 2016 22:22
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SocketWrench posted:I'm pretty sure no corporation is willing to take that risk in loving Michigan. We've got thousands of springs and surrounded on three sides by huge lakes. This isn't loving Death Valley where every drop of water is worth more than gold. Hell, you can dig down ten feet in places and strike water. That's true for now, but if you've read the climate change thread the water levels are rising so far that they're going above ground into the troposphere. Soon water will be scarce even in Michigan and Coca cola will probably own it all.
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Mar 19, 2016 22:34
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