What's the deal with the water in Flint?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > What's the deal with the water in Flint?

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

RevKrule posted:

The greatest (most supervillainish?) thing Snyder ever did was leaving the elected leaders in place when he appointed EM's. He muddied the waters before any thing terrible even happened. Now he's able to say "well, these democrats also voted for this so it's not our fault!" even though the EM's had full autonomy.

Look at comment sections, they're toeing the line so efficiently. I'm always a little impressed at how well the right is in messaging.

Snyder used his secret dark money fund to hire two PR firms to do that water muddying.

The latest to come out today about the crisis - Snyder insists he didn't know anything about lead poisoning until October of 2015 yet Lansing started shipping bottled water to state offices in Flint as early as January 2015 so state employees had a safe source of drinking water.

http://www.progressmichigan.org/2016/01/document-snyder-admin-trucked-in-clean-water-for-state-building-in-january-2015/

Here is a link to the most comprehensive timeline. Michigan Radio has covered this story since it began in 2013.

https://cdn.knightlab.com/libs/time...om=2&height=650

HUGE PUBES A PLUS fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Jan 29, 2016

# ¿ Jan 29, 2016 02:00

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# ¿ May 17, 2024 18:52

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

Eskaton posted:

Uh, the auto industry and economy in Michigan at least has been growing since Snyder, so I'm not too sure if that's a great argument to pick.

It was former Governor Granholm and President Obama who bailed out the auto industry in Michigan. Snyder took over in 2011 and took all the credit. Snyder has always been a terrible governor. Thanks to him freedom to freeload was forced on us AFTER Snyder said right to work was wrong for Michigan. While he told everyone Detroit wasn't going bankrupt, his secret right hand man Richard Baird was vetting candidates for emergency manager of Detroit. The secret NERD fund, cutting a billion dollars from the state school budget, raising taxes on poor people and old people, cutting taxes for corporations by 2 billion dollars and creating a massive deficit. Do you not realize the water situation in Detroit and Flint is deliberate? The plan is to sabotage the city-run water services and insist the only way to fix the problem is privatize it. Snyder is nothing but a vulture capitalist plundering the state.

# ¿ Jan 29, 2016 12:31

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

Snyder gets heckled at local Ann Arbor bar.

http://markmaynard.com/2016/01/snyder-watch-2016-dinner-at-old-town/

# ¿ Jan 30, 2016 01:41

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

# ¿ Jan 30, 2016 07:41

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

Congressional hearing on Flint Water is today.

http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/flint-water-crisis/2016/02/03/flint-water-hearing-today-congress/79716622/

quote:

This morning, the U.S. House Oversight and Government Reform committee will hold the first Congressional hearing in Washington on the Flint water crisis. Here�s what you need to know:

Time: 9 a.m.

Purpose: To examine the water crisis in Flint and review the Environmental Protection Agency's response.

Expected witnesses: U.S. Rep. Dan Kildee, D-Flint Township; Joel Beauvais, acting deputy assistant administrator, EPA Office of Water; new Michigan Department of Environmental Quality Director Keith Creagh; Virginia Tech University Professor Marc Edwards, whose research helped reveal the problems in Flint; LeeAnne Walters of Flint, whose concerns over problems with the water led to outside intervention.

Where to watch: Live on Freep.com

Keith Creagh used to be the head of the Michigan Department of Natural Resources and is best known for green lighting mining operations in the UP, including allowing Graymont, a Canadian limestone company, to buy and lease over 11,000 acres in the UP to create a limestone quarry and violate the Washington Treaty of 1836 with the Native American tribes living in the area. He also allows logging on state land and received the Tuebor award from the Michigan Forest Products Council last fall.

https://twitter.com/RepDanKildee/status/694855362541805574

HUGE PUBES A PLUS fucked around with this message at 13:12 on Feb 3, 2016

# ¿ Feb 3, 2016 12:49

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9S-hpXb3Nn4

US Rep Dan Kildee is addressing the House Oversight Committee right now.

# ¿ Feb 3, 2016 15:35

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

On the sidewalk in front of Snyder's $2 million Main Street Ann Arbor condo.

# ¿ Feb 6, 2016 16:09

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

Maybe this will too. Reports that Snyder will attempt to go out in public this afternoon for the Michigan vs Michigan State basketball game.

http://www.deadlinedetroit.com/articles/14217/women_s_group_plans_to_fly_banner_saturday_over_ann_arbor_criticizing_snyder#.VrY7QUJVK1F

http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor...ed7f775e03c30c8

HUGE PUBES A PLUS fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Feb 6, 2016

# ¿ Feb 6, 2016 19:31

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

I wonder if he's not resigning because he knows that as long as he's still governor the political system will protect him.

Schuette on Duty said he has to get his own lawyer.

# ¿ Feb 7, 2016 00:51

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

We had no idea who Richard Baird was for months after Snyder took office. We knew he had someone working for him, he was paid by the NERD Fund and he was present at a lot of meetings, such as the Education Apartheid Authority and Project Skunkworks. While Snyder told the state Detroit wasn't getting an EM and wouldn't go bankrupt, Baird was vetting Kevyn Orr to be the EM of Detroit and handle the bankruptcy case. We also found out that Baird, a resident of Illinois, was driving on expired Illinois plates. He claimed primary residence in Illinois and Michigan at the same time, something that came to light when Snyder loaded loyal delegates for the MIGOP convention in 2014 to vote him in as the nominee, and he listed Baird. Baird was caught claiming the right to vote in two states at the same time.

The funniest story about Richard Baird was when he was ordered by a judge in court to provide the names of the people he interviewed for the Detroit EM job, he claimed Snyder gave him executive privilege and he didn't have to answer that question. Then his lawyer cited RICHARD loving NIXON of all people and his executive privilege over the Watergate scandal.

The latest Snyder scandal is this cake Snyder ordered for his wife's birthday from an Ann Arbor bakery. A woman came into the shop and ordered it without disclosing who it was for. When the bakery delivered the cake they were surprised that they had made the cake for Sue Snyder.

Now there are chalk messages in front of his condo about the cake.

HUGE PUBES A PLUS fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Feb 7, 2016

# ¿ Feb 7, 2016 14:50

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

boom boom boom posted:

It's really hard to take an angry political message seriously when it's written in chalk and a variety of festive colors.

It's really hard to take a governor seriously when he tells the press he's helping the people of Flint, but never leaves his condo in Ann Arbor unless it's under state police escort and is so out of touch with how much people in Michigan are suffering thanks to his own policies and actions that he orders a cake with 5th Avenue logos on it for his wife's birthday.

# ¿ Feb 7, 2016 17:29

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

Exclamation Marx posted:

Untold cities across America have higher rates of lead poisoning than Flint

No one's denying that. What makes this so heinous is the state government forced these people to switch, then when it went to hell, like they were warned it would, they did nothing, except quietly install water coolers into the state government buildings in the city.

# ¿ Feb 8, 2016 12:06

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

clockworx posted:

I'm not sure if that article is intentionally misleading or what, but the other cities issues are not due to the water. You have to get halfway through the article before they mention this:

So while it is concerning, it's a long-known issue for areas with old housing stock and one that has been on the decline for a long time. The Flint issue was people knowingly creating the problem and then attempting to cover it up.

The pipes didn't have the corrosion problem until the governor-appointed emergency manager unilaterally made the decision to switch over to Flint River water. Waiting for the new pipeline to Lake Huron was taking too long, and they had to cut corners to save a buck now.

# ¿ Feb 9, 2016 02:50

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

Those of us from the first Recall Snyder petition group are discussing this right now in our secret facebook group. here are some facts:

To get 1 million signatures in 60 days you will need to get 700 signers 24/7 and have a lot of money to hire circulators.

The unions must get behind the effort and support it. This was our biggest obstacle in 2011. The unions endorsed Snyder during the 2010 election, and he rewarded them by slapping them with right to work.

In the 2012 Shame Duck session along with right to work, the state legislature changed the rules for recall elections. There would be a Wisconsin-style recall election in which voters would vote on both the recall question AND the replacement candidates. The latter would have less than 3 months to campaign. We won't end up with Brian Calley as governor for 3 years.

It would take a lot of people working constantly to get the signatures we need.

# ¿ Feb 9, 2016 05:29

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

If you want to do something, you can always write the US Attorney and urge them to investigate and arrest Rick Snyder.

Barb McQuade, US Attorney for the Eastern District

United States Attorneys Office
211 W. Fort Street, Suite 2001
Detroit, MI 48226

# ¿ Feb 9, 2016 05:56

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

Retired FBI agent says manslaughter highest possible charge in Flint water case.

quote:

Lansing � Todd Flood, special counsel for the state attorney general�s office investigation into the Flint water crisis, said Tuesday the probe could lead to a variety of criminal charges or civil actions.

�We�re here to investigate what possible crimes there are, anything to the involuntary manslaughter or death that may have happened to some young person or old person because of this poisoning, to misconduct in office,� he said. �We take this very seriously.�

Flood joined Attorney General Bill Schuette, chief investigator Andrew Arena and deputy chief investigator Ellis Stafford for a media round table Tuesday in Lansing, where they provided an update on the investigation launched last month.

The probe will look at state and local government officials to determine whether any state laws were violated. There is no clear timeline for how long the investigation will take.

�It�s not far-fetched� to imagine involuntary manslaughter charges in the case, Flood told reporters, if the investigation links �gross negligence� or a �breach of duty� to a death in Flint, where at least nine people have died of Legionnaires� disease after the city switched to Flint River water in April 2014.

Flood could also pursue restitution for Flint residents affected by the water contamination crisis, he said, suggesting he could target private companies or governments involved in the man-made disaster.

Schuette has assembled what he called a �top-shelf� team for the probe, led by Flood and Arena, who ran several major investigations as head of the Detroit FBI Office until his retirement in 2012. Arena came out of retirement, he said, because the Flint water investigation is �the biggest case in the history of the state.�

The team will include nine full-time investigators, according to Arena, including former state and Detroit police officers. Outside experts, such as cyber forensic scientists, could be brought in as needed.

Schuette said it is hard to say how much the investigation will cost, noting that some people will earn as little as $20 an hour. But Flood will earn $400 an hour as special prosecutor, according to Schuette, who noted that is the same rate special assistant attorneys general earned Detroit�s 2014 bankruptcy case.

�We�re not going to shortchange justice,� Schuette said. �We�re not going to do justice on the cheap. We�re going to have a full and complete investigation, and where the truth goes, that�s where we�ll go.�

Some state lawmakers, including Senate Majority Leader Arlan Meekhof, have questioned the need for an attorney general�s investigation and the price tag it may bring. But Schuette said he is confident the Legislature will provide funding, if requested.

Flood, a former Wayne County assistant prosecutor who now operates a private practice in Royal Oak, said he did not think anyone in the Legislature would want to be seen as impeding the probe.

�This is not some Jones Day firm charge,� he said, referencing the pricey Washington, D.C., office that represented Detroit in the municipal bankruptcy case. �I�m charging a lot less than I normally would on a significant amount of my clients. At the end of the day, we�ve put together an A-team of investigators that you can�t find anywhere.�

Critics continue to question the objectivity of the investigation, noting that Flood has made political contributions to both Schuette and Republican Gov. Rick Snyder, a fact he has said will not affect his judgment in the case. Flood also donated to former Democratic Gov. Jennifer Granholm.

"Bill Schuette's �independent investigation� seems more focused on rewarding campaign contributors with state contracts than getting to the bottom of why Flint's water was poisoned with lead," said Melanie McElroy, executive director of Common Cause Michigan, in a statement.

Schuette announced the investigation last month and detailed steps to create a �firewall� within his office, which is also defending Snyder and state departments in a series of lawsuits brought by Flint residents exposed to contaminated drinking water.

Because he is involved in the investigation, Schuette is not part of the team defending Snyder in a federal class-action lawsuit. But his office, citing a �potential conflict of interest� between the administration and other defendants, has asked to withdraw as legal counsel for seven Department of Environmental Quality employees, including one recently fired by the state over the Flint water crisis. Those individuals would have the opportunity to obtain new attorneys paid for by the state.

Flint switched off Detroit�s Lake Huron water supply in April 2014 and began using the Flint River as an interim source while construction continued on a new regional pipeline. Residents quickly began complaining about water�s color and odor, and independent experts eventually discovered elevated lead levels in the water and blood of children.

The state, which initially downplayed concerns, confirmed the lead findings in October and began taking steps to address the crisis. Department of Environmental Quality Director Dan Wyant resigned in late December amidst criticism over his agency�s failure to ensure proper corrosion controls were added to Flint River water, which had leached lead from aging underground pipes.

�To try to capture in words the tragedy of what occurred in Flint is almost beyond description,� Schuette said. �My job as attorney general is to enforce the law, and we�re going to determine what laws were violated.�

It can't be mentioned enough that Bill Schuette wants to be the next governor of Michigan.

# ¿ Feb 10, 2016 03:11

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

MEA urges members not to support this petition or sign it.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6J1ecILnk3UekItd00tMHB4dEk/view

# ¿ Feb 11, 2016 12:15

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

Thesaurasaurus posted:

So wait, what's his argument here? That Snyder might be literally the villain from Chinatown, but he's still the devil we know compared to the Tea Party who might take his place?

The tea party hates Rick Snyder. They tried to primary his lieutenant governor, Brian Calley, during the 2014 election with a "true" conservative tea party candidate. The issue is when Michigan voted in favor of the medicaid expansion, Brian Calley was the tie breaker vote. He's supposed to be the tea party balance to Snyder's establishment Republican base, but after his betrayal on obamacare, the tea party branded him no true conservative.

# ¿ Feb 11, 2016 23:47

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

They're not shilling for Snyder. They're suggesting not supporting the petition because if they were able to succeed in getting enough signatures, we would be stuck with tea party conservative Brian Calley for governor. Except the law was changed on how that worked during the shame duck session of 2012 too and that's not how it works any more.

# ¿ Feb 12, 2016 04:23

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

RareAcumen posted:

Are they still charging people for water they can't use?

Yes, people are still paying for the poison water they can't use except to flush the toilet and getting cut off if they don't pay their bills.

# ¿ Feb 14, 2016 13:47

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

e: with this high res view of his nose and cheeks, I speculate this man does more than his share of drinking.

HUGE PUBES A PLUS fucked around with this message at 01:18 on Feb 15, 2016

# ¿ Feb 15, 2016 01:13

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

He rarely leaves his condo in Ann Arbor. He only goes to Lansing when absolutely necessary, and when he does, he's chauffeured by the Michigan State Police. He has never lived in the Governor's residence the tax payers pay for.

# ¿ Feb 19, 2016 23:45

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

This ice sculpture was left in front of the capital in Lansing on Thursday. It was removed within hours.

# ¿ Feb 20, 2016 16:45

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

Latest Rachel Maddow installment. Flint mentioned among other disasters caused by Snyder.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/snyder-policy-ideas-yield-string-of-disasters-637488707995

And some photos from this week's weekly protest in front of Snyder's downtown Ann Arbor condo.

HUGE PUBES A PLUS fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Mar 5, 2016

# ¿ Mar 5, 2016 16:52

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

Oracle posted:

Snyder's testifying in front of Congress today. You can watch here.

Full text of his opening statement here.

What a poo poo show. The GOP screamed at the EPA chief that she didn't do enough, nevermind this is the same GOP screaming the EPA has too much oversight and it should be eliminated. Snyder of course ever since this scandal broke insists all levels of government are to blame, when it was his appointee who only answers to him who made the decision to use the Flint River.

# ¿ Mar 17, 2016 22:03

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

The hearing is being aired on C SPAN right now. Join in if you can.

http://www.c-span.org/video/?406540-1/hearing-flint-michigan-water-contamination

# ¿ Mar 18, 2016 01:01

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

Thoughts? We know Snyders' rarely in Lansing unless he has to be. He hides out in his $2.5 million condo in A2.

Only registered members can see post attachments!

# ¿ Mar 18, 2016 15:16

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

SocketWrench posted:

Wait, is someone trying to defend him by doing suspiciously illegal activities?

What the hell.

No, they want to prove he plausibly had no idea it was going on because he's never in Lansing, as in doesn't bother to show up for work any more, he has people handling everything for him.

He never leaves Ann Arbor.

# ¿ Mar 19, 2016 14:26

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

When Snyder first took office in 2011, he hired a man named Richard Baird and gave him an office next to the office the taxpayers of Michigan provide for the absentee governor to work. Richard Baird set up a dummy LLC claiming he was a consulting firm with one client, Rick Snyder. Baird is the guy who hired Detroit emergency Manager Kevyn Orr, orchestrated the Project Skunkworks illegal school voucher meetings, and met with EMU regents in an Ann Arbor steakhouse to pitch the soon to be out of business Education Achievement Authority. I would not be the least bit surprised that Snyder lets his staffers handle the job of Governor while he sits in his condo in Ann Arbor and hires people to hire bakeries to make expensive custom-made cakes for his wife.

# ¿ Mar 19, 2016 16:20

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

Michigan has more inland lakes than Minnesota. :colbert:

Anyway.

The point of unredacting the emails is not to prove Snyder did anything wrong, it's to prove he's not doing the job he was elected to do at all.

# ¿ Mar 19, 2016 21:10

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

Tight Booty Shorts posted:

You're insane.

Nestle Waters owns the Muskegon River, as far as they are concerned. I live about 15 miles away from their bottling facility in Michigan. Dennis Muchmore is Snyder's Chief of Staff. Muchmore's wife, Deb, is the chief spokesperson for Nestle Waters. Not about to go down the conspiracy theory route, but you can see where it's easy to do with this crisis.

# ¿ Mar 20, 2016 13:37

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

One of the details with the Flint water crisis was the break-in at the office where records and an old TV were stolen shortly after the scandal broke. It's now been determined by police that the break-in was an inside job

quote:

Police investigating a burglary at a Flint City Hall office where water records were stored �was definitely an inside job,� police said.

After the December break-in at the vacant executive office, police found water documents scattered around the room. An old TV was stolen, but the power cord was not.

�It was definitely an inside job. The power cord (to the TV) wasn�t even taken,� Police Chief Tim Johnson told MLive. �The average drug user knows that you�d need the power cord to be able to pawn it.�

Police confirmed to Motor City Muckraker today that an investigation is ongoing and that authorities are worried water records were removed because the room was littered with out-of-place documents related to the water crisis. It was the only office targeted in the break-in.

The burglary occurred soon after it became clear that the state had ignored serious warnings about the dangers of using the Flint River for drinking water.

State police also are investigating.

At this point, police aren�t sure what else was taken other than the TV.

# ¿ Mar 22, 2016 18:24

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

Rick Snyder is currently number one in this fortune magazine poll "the 19 most disappointing world leaders."

http://fortune.com/2016/03/30/rank-most-disappointing-leaders/

# ¿ Mar 30, 2016 23:15

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# ¿ May 17, 2024 18:52

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

The only bad guy is Rick Snyder. He needs to be arrested.

# ¿ Mar 31, 2016 01:11

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > What's the deal with the water in Flint?