Yudo posted:

Wait wait, the proud revolutionaries in this thread would endorse Leninism over Luxemburgism? I don't mean this as a criticism, I am genuinely curious.

Jewel Repetition posted:

If you want to argue against White Nationalism you should at least have read Mein Kampf. I mean jeez.

Koos Goop posted:

Communism.

Ormi posted:

brutal self-own

Vladimir Lenin posted:

Repudiation of the Party principle and of Party discipline—that is what the opposition has arrived at. And this is tantamount to completely disarming the proletariat in the interests of the bourgeoisie. It all adds up to that petty-bourgeois diffuseness and instability, that incapacity for sustained effort, unity and organised action, which, if encouraged, must inevitably destroy any proletarian revolutionary movement.

The strictest centralisation and discipline are required within the political party of the proletariat in order to counteract this, in order that the organisational role of the proletariat (and that is its principal role) may be exercised correctly, successfully and victoriously. The dictatorship of the proletariat means a persistent struggle—bloody and bloodless, violent and peaceful, military and economic, educational and administrative—against the forces and traditions of the old society. The force of habit in millions and tens of millions is a most formidable force. Without a party of iron that has been tempered in the struggle, a party enjoying the confidence of all honest people in the class in question, a party capable of watching and influencing the mood of the masses, such a struggle cannot be waged successfully.

Whoever brings about even the slightest weakening of the iron discipline of the party of the proletariat (especially during its dictatorship), is actually aiding the bourgeoisie against the proletariat.

Vladimir Lenin posted:

Some people in America have come to think of the Bolsheviks as a small clique of very bad men who are tyrannizing over a vast number of highly intellectual people who would form an admirable Government among themselves the moment the Bolshevik regime was overthrown. This is a mistake, for there is nobody to take our place save butcher Generals and helpless bureaucrats who have already displayed their total incapacity for rule.

If people abroad exaggerate the importance of the rising in Kronstadt and give it support, it is because the world has broken up into two camps: capitalism abroad and Communist Russia.

Leon Trotsky posted:

So long as Russia is surrounded by bourgeois countries in which there are powerful cliques that will stop at nothing to strike blows at the workers’ republic, events like the Kronstadt mutiny are quite inevitable, and will probably be repeated many times in the future. We have no grounds for doubting that the workers’ republic will cope with all these attempts on its life, just as it has coped up to now.

GunnerJ posted:

Generally, comparisons between Nazis and communists have always seemed a bit strange to me because I've never heard of anyone saying "Nazism sounds good on paper, but..."

team overhead smash posted:

Yes just like Capitalism is bad for those exact same reasons, yet being reasonable most of us don't just go "bluh bluh blubh Capitalism like Nazis" but rather use critical reason to analyse Capitalism and criticise it on its actual performance; to whit millions needlessly dead each year constituting the ideology with the largest body-count ever in the history of the world.

mike12345 posted:

beats reading pages of this wankfest

crabcakes66 posted:

This thread makes me glad that communists are pretty much irrelevant in American politics.

Top City Homo posted:

let me tell you something buddy or i s it "comrade" with you people?

rudatron posted:

Why are the PSL trashing sanders? He's running on a campaign that he calls 'socialism', and he's putting the idea back into the heads of Americans that, hey, maybe the economy should serve the interests of the people, not the other way around.

Sanders is the path to Full Communism.

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

Cultivating a revolution in a Semi-Feudal agrarian society, before television, radio, and the internet is by comparison really loving easy when compared to what we're dealing with now. Propaganda, like all other industries, has only become more capital-intensive over the last century and it's practically impossible to disseminate socialist ideas except through direct contact either in person or over social media.

Mofabio posted:

the purpose of the democratic party is to negotiate with social movements in order to destroy them; the purpose of the republican party is to prevent social movements in the first place, by redirecting legitimate grievances to nonsensical places

in either case, the purpose of the parties is to prevent a revolutionary social movement

uberkeyzer posted:

this thread is the perfect encapsulation of this political party, there's a handful of people parroting dumb talking points about how great Venezuela and Cuba are, posting memes and fantasizing about getting 0.001% of the votes doubled to 0.002% while the rest of the forum totally ignores them. Congrats on managing to find total irrelevance in a 200-person sub forum on the Internet.

Majorian posted:

I'd like to see them. (sorry if you posted them earlier, I couldn't find them)

Sheng-ji Yang posted:

lol what a dumb thing

The Saurus posted:

Why do modern leftists support mass immigration of unskilled labour, a policy created by and for the ruling class in order to undercut the economic position and solidarity of the native working class?

The Saurus posted:

Like I'm pretty sure the USSR gave aid to other socialist countries that were poorer than them to help their development right? They didn't just pack everyone on a plane and fly them to Russia where conditions were better.

Bro Dad posted:

wow neo-lf already starting maoism third worldism arguments

The Saurus posted:

I also like how you blame the workers themselves for their situation, as though there wasn't a huge effort by the rich and the powerful to weaken them in the past decades.

Jewel Repetition posted:

Lol "labor aristocracy"

DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:

What difference does documentation make to whether or not an immigrant would somehow be a "scab?"

Demonachizer posted:

I will consider voting for a PSL candidate if you could please post the political compass of one. I make all of my voting decisions based on that cartesian coordinate system.

EDIT: Oh nevermind these people got trapped by the whole Putin is great because he opposes the US thing. I don't get why leftists can't dislike the US government AND the Russian government...

goatse.cx posted:

This is probably true with the older timers who lived through both soviet times and 'shock therapy' but I seriously doubt it holds for the younger neoliberal generation

The Saurus posted:

okay what about the gay people though?

swampman posted:

swampman posted:

What was your past username when I posted here?

swampman posted:

I'm a little nervous posting with such open Communist sentiment though, I fear that the CIA-employed political forums moderator Vile Rat is going to come in here and teach me a lesson about how much better it is to be capitalist and how Gaddafi was just a mean son of a bitch who needed a NATO missile to the face and then ban the poo poo out of my poo poo, and then Vile Rat will I suppose enjoy his glorious future bringing prosperity to the impoverished morons of Tripoli and uniting all EVE online players under one guild? I've lost touch so I don't know how much Freedom they were able to wreak over the last few years. Are they voting for Sanders too?

The Saurus posted:

bunch of nerds itt marxistly denying genocide and supporting dictators

The Saurus posted:

Yeah I thought marxists were meant to be against identity politics and dumb SJW poo poo too but all the ones I've met recently have hated Bernie Sanders because he doesn't make killing all the Israelis and restoring Palestine his number 1 priority, and say that Muslims are an oppressed class like the working class becuase they occupy a unique place in society, and that the lovely theocratic patriarchal beliefs of Islam only came about due to their oppression by the white man (the only creature capable of evil in this world, despite European imperialism not kicking off until way after Islam had its own imperialist epoch )

DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:

you know I would but I have all of these James and Walter Kennedy books to get through first so I'll just put those on the end of my reading list

The Saurus posted:

Yeah, they say it's not good enough though. Honestly I think they just want to be contrarian and say how everyone and everything in the democratic system is lovely and only a revolution led by them and their loser friends can make things right in a holy cleansing fire.

Peel posted:

what form do you think such tactical support should actually take?

Vladimir Lenin posted:

In view of the undoubted honesty of those broad sections of the mass believers in revolutionary defencism who accept the war only as a necessity, and not as a means of conquest, in view of the fact that they are being deceived by the bourgeoisie, it is necessary with particular thoroughness, persistence and patience to explain their error to them, to explain the inseparable connection existing between capital and the imperialist war, and to prove that without overthrowing capital it is impossible to end the war by a truly democratic peace, a peace not imposed by violence.

Top City Homo posted:

imo homework explainer is a good poster and its fun reading his posts

but thats basically it

Top City Homo posted:

whoops and then you slipped into dumb pro russian conspiracy theories about Ukraine.

Peel posted:

like i alluded to above though i don't think relitigating ukraine and syria is a good direction for the thread, it'll suck everything up and then attract tub-thumpers

Top City Homo posted:

i understand why some us lefties would think it is plausible because the US loves to overthrow govs but in this particular situation it happens to be Russian imperialism, revanchism and nationalism trying to impose a puppet government on a society it calls The Ukraine, like a territory.

The banderists and right sector people were not prominent enough to lead the revolution and their involvement in what amounted to a mass call for self determination against being a Belorussian style russian puppet state doesn't mean that the majority of Ukrainians who wanted to chart a course for Europe suddenly became fascists lusting for ruskie death

Top City Homo posted:

that part is pretty terrible

but being involved with the imf is generally terrible

i don't think its a conspiracy though because the whole point was to align with western interests

but in the sense of integrating with europe not integrating with the pilfering gaunt bureaucrats of the IMF

Peel posted:

there's a venezuela thread in D&D that can give you the 'orthodox' view. it's the least of a shitshow i've ever seen a venezuela thread be with only a couple of outright eyeroll ideologues, but now that things are really bad under maduro it's definitely a solidly anti-PSUV thread that places PSUV mismanagement & corruption as the cause of the crisis and holds them as dangerously illiberal and dismissive of the rule of law.

the opposing view i'm sure this thread will elaborate on would be that the PSUV's programme has been undermined by domestic and foreign capital to encourage the public to remove them from power.

1mpper posted:

Jewel Repetition posted:

Do the socialists here support unfettered trade too

Top City Homo posted:

democratic centralism has a tendency to devolve into political cultism and bureaucracy

platformism ala zapatismo has more merit than the smelly bickering of the often sexist homogeneity in these weird splinter socialist parties venerating the corpse of trotsky mao or lenin

Top City Homo posted:

Hitler and Stalin did work together. They cut up Poland and Finland between each other and Hitler had a deal on Eastern Europe with with Ribbentrop. I don't really why they would have to work together for eternity anymore than Mao decided to stop working with the USSR or Tito or anyone else. They all had ideological differences.

Top City Homo posted:

I appreciate that you are providing these alternative sources of information even if they are little more than puff pieces by very serious propagandists.