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why vote for a socialist/communist party when it'd be just as effective if not more to make your own local one and try to change the minds of the voters in your area so later they'll vote third party right alongside you?
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Jan 26, 2016 03:35
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:That said, why go to the enormous effort and expense of starting a political party for, scratch if there is one out there already with an ideology you agree with? mostly to avoid things like having to deal with any stupid poo poo the leaders of said party say that make it impossible to sell your fellow voters on their brand of socialism/communism or even just convince yourself that was isolated stupidity you can ignore instead of a more mainstream candidate with more personally palatable idiot poo poo on their boots (the Assad thing is what I'm thinking of here), since presumably you or i with enough money and time to do stuff like that might be a little smarter about the messaging not being quite as tone-deaf. unless you only care about voting your conscience or write off anyone who isn't willing to withhold judgement until you fully explain about how they really meant something else/there's a good reason they said as much i guess. quote:At the end of the day, any political party with more than one member has to make concessions. I guess if you want to be the next Bob Akavian and build your own cult of personality (shots fired!) you could just start something from scratch or whatever. But I guess that's not a political tradition I would agree with. i'm inclined to agree that it's a hell of a task to set something up from scratch and certainly not realistic to expect out of everyone, i guess i just think that there are way better things to do with the time i'd spend talking about and doing a third party completely futile vote that would go further in making one eventually successful - like going out and actually convincing as many people as i could that full socialism is actually really good and/or finding someone who can sell themselves really well politically that's amenable to pushing for as much socialism as possible. i'd love actual socialism in the mainstream but it isn't going to just magically show up even if everyone on this board voted for PSL this year, my point is that anyone who feels bernie isn't good enough right as they may be will as far as i can tell achieve less than nothing by just voting for a third party alone. i mean, sure, do both if you want, but just voting is a sucker's game even if you pick the ultimate best party of them all with perfectly electable and decent human beings for candidates if most everyone else who votes still responds readily to socialism/commie bashing. quote:So I guess what I'm saying is: hell yea go organize your neighborhood man. i would genuinely like to, right now i want to set myself up for a job in cs though by doing a cs50x course well enough to get an internship and maybe not become homeless in january if cruz wins and kills social security or something equally insane. plus more people might actually think i know what i'm talking about if i can claim that line of work and certainly they'll take me more seriously than they will as of now where i've never had a 'real' job (i.e. blockbuster csr and seasonal call center tech rep). if money and time became no object i'd opt to build or work in an org based around stuff that anyone can see capitalism is utter poo poo at and then talk with people i helped beat the system designed to screw them about the alternatives to that system, then send messages about local/state/federal elections when they're close by and maybe if i can get a pony with my wishes services to help people get to the voting booth or whatever along with a genuinely decent socialist person running right then to vote in for different positions. probably in reality i'd settle for a local organization that wasn't off-putting and try to push it in more socialist directions but hell if i know what the future holds. at the very least i'd like to assuming global warming doesn't completely eradicate snow during winter for my state talk a bunch of people who don't have cars or otherwise don't drive in my county into collectively walking down the road after a snowfall to protest the fact that businesses have more legal incentive to leave sidewalks untouched after the snowplows throw street snow on them and hence treacherously unusable than they do to actually try to clear the sidewalks of snow (because if someone falls on a sidewalk that the business actually tried to clear, the business can be held responsible, but if they fall because the sidewalk wasn't cleared at all, it's just bad luck apparently!)
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Jan 26, 2016 06:31
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:It actually makes more sense to take over the Democratic party and turn it socialist, because the entire system is set up to suppress Third Party participation. Even with a widespread base of support. that's absolutely one way to go for 'going out and convincing people near you socialism is good'  really though that's probably the best way to do it in the end. i think though if you don't first have an army ready to take over the party wholesale and have to broker with the establishment at all, you'll end up having to compromise heavily at first to prove to them that they actually can win an election with a politician that embraces the socialist label despite not really fitting that label enough to seriously rustle anybody's jimmies in the end. it might even be good to do that to rally people who would absolutely join up for taking power away from the establishment but don't really know there's enough people around that feel the same way to work towards that goal. the tea party did not find trump overnight, it took decades, and a socialist version will probably take about as long if not longer.
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Jan 26, 2016 08:14
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Jewel Repetition posted:You're right, it will be exactly the same amount of effective. *Extremely smug smirk.* there is the extra bonus of being made to see firsthand exactly how much work it's going to take to convince a good proportion of people that socialism is better than capitalism, which does not exist with just voting and then later grumbling about how the system is rigged and the next election a socialist third party will totally landslide it without any need for more effort. on the other hand if they're actually good at proselytizing for socialism the overton window might get skewed a few places and actually make the dems in those areas have to tilt a lot further left for the votes which would be pretty cool. seems pretty win-win to me! e: i just looked again and noticed a bit of a fallacy i can't not address quote:IMO developing countries should just get themselves some protectionist pro-agriculture policies. Like, get their countries to stop letting the global market exploit them so bad. Not by glorious revolution, just sensible trade and subsidies. you mean like protectionist pro-agriculture policies that would drive prices for those goods in the US way up, potentially past the point where you or a lot of other non-wealthy people can afford to eat them? isn't that in effect going to dictate your eating habits despite your desires anyway? Ignatius M. Meen fucked around with this message at 09:04 on Jan 26, 2016 |
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Jan 26, 2016 08:59
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