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mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011
hello, this thread

i was reading the diaries from one of my favorite documentaries from my childhood, michael palin's pole to pole, and he passes through the ussr two weeks before it collapsed. he describes leningrad and its pretty depressing: unmaintained roads, trams falling apart, dilapidated hotels, goods shortages, a general feeling of malaise.

i got a buncha questions on all o this and was wondering if someone could point me to good sources on this: was the ussr just as bad in the late 70s/early 80s pre gorbachev? was there ever a period where living standards were comfortable, roads were maintained, etc? to what extent did gorbachev's privatizations and price control removals contribute to it, or did they in fact help/do nothing to an inevitable collapse? people keep talking about brezhnevian 'stagnation' but what does that mean exactly - and why did it need to be combated? are there any lessons to be drawn here that could be make a command economy viable ever again?

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mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011

Karl Barks posted:

you're going to get a bunch of different takes on this but here's mine. yes there were periods like that - the 50s-60s were prosperous, much like they were in the United States though not to the same degree. the USSR was laser focused on heavy industry and related industries, so their consumer goods were a lot worse. they did make attempts at improving them (especially after kruschev's visit to the US in the 50s) but never really managed to succeed. people were provided housing, healthcare, and education tho, and unemployment was "officially" 0.

depending on who you ask, the malaise really started to set in in the early 70s and was exacerbated by the oil crisis (actually.. also like the United States). I think the USSR was probably toast by the late 70s and Gorbachev's changes wouldn't have fixed anything regardless. if you're a dead serious communist, you probably blame kruschev's "revisionism", and that the USSR was doomed the moment Stalin died.

having said all that, the USSR's growth rate in the late 70s and 80s was like 2%, so not far off from our current predicament.

hmm, i was always under the impression that the ussr, as a large oil producing power, benefited from rising oil prices in the 70s and it was in fact the oil price crash caused by the 80s glut that did em in

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011

GalacticAcid posted:

Phenomenal essay by Daniel Finn on Portuguese politics, in particular on how the Portuguese Communist Party and the anarchist / Trotskyist Left Bloc exert pressure on the Socialists and build militant power - Luso-Anomalies, New Left Review.

It’s from summer 2017 so if anybody can direct me to something on this topic that’s more up to date that would be grand.

shocked that abandoning austerity and governing with comminists would lead to a centre left government with high approval

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011

WhiskeyJuvenile posted:

looking forward to him coming down to DC this weekend

i hope he beats you with a baseball bat

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011

ive hated whiskeyjuvenile since helldump, relax

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011

rudatron posted:

you may think i'm a creep threatening people on the internet, but have no fear - i've always been a creep

thank you, but also wj isn't people

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011

how come all these online leftists seem to spend all their time tearing down other leftists

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011

rudatron posted:

The US is already a done deal, the future is China vs. India.

han-supremacist state capitalism versus...whatever the gently caress india is gonna be in 50 years.

the 'new cold war' thing will probably get a pig push in US domestic politics, as liberals confuse intensifying class war as 'lack of unity'/'political polarization'. but it won't stick.

the USSR was perpetually surrounded by the US & its allies, which the US was able to maintain due to its greater economic strength

but the tables have turned. If china gets a couple of other major countries in it's corner, the US won't be able to afford to contain it. So if it pulls a 'new cold war', everything it tries will explode in its face, and embarrass it.

it won't be a 'punch for punch' narrative, but 'old man US flails helpless against the great diplomatic wall of china'.

india is a fragile mess thats going to explode along class, sectarian and ethnic lines probably

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011

Infernot posted:

https://www.cnn.com/2017/05/02/asia/india-maoist-rebels-villagers/index.html

Search around and you'll find more articles documenting rape, murder, and extortion from Maoists in India. They've killed more civilians than police or officials from the Indian government. I think they pose more of a threat to the people they (hopefully) want to protect and bring into their group than capital right now. Hell, even the Bolsheviks, who I admire, didn't pose much of a threat to capital at any point in their run before things settled into the USSR. Why do you have to make this an "us vs them" ordeal and pigeonhole yourself into defending terrible groups and politics?

insurgency is never pretty and i'm sure there are such incidents because its rare for an anti government force (usually infiltrated to hell and back) to have total control and discipline over their cadres, but from everything i've read the naxals had a shitload of civilian and local support in rural chattisgarh and maharashtra. everything i've seen to this point points to the vast majority of atrocities committed by right wing paramilitaries and the local landlord/criminal types, can you point to stuff contradicting that from actual news sources (cnn is generally worthless)

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011

Infernot posted:

https://twitter.com/itsmikebivins/status/1013184384654929920

Big thread from yesterday's counter-protest in Portland


PDX Mike Bivins
‏Verified account @itsmikebivins
Jun 30

Patriot Prayer group now chanting “rufio, rufio” like in the Hook movie. Dunno what that’s about. Now they’re chanting “USA”

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011

none of this makes any sense to me. is this socialism in 2018

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011
been muttering "gtfo you are racism dog??" to myself all afternoon and now i have prodormal schizophrenia

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011

rudatron posted:

Kaczynski was a reactionary douchebag. Strasser was a nazi. Are you trolling me?

and some people on the list were pretty bad as well

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011
didnt they hold like a free open referendum before the ussr dissolved and the vast majority of the republics wanted to keep and stay in the union? obviously ukraine, the baltics wanted out

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011

Kurnugia posted:

well, aside from armenia, georgia, estonia, latvia, lithuania and moldova.

drat so like 10 ssrs wanted to stay in even at the end? surprised ukraine was one of em.

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011

Karl Barks posted:

Both yes and no we're votes to end the USSR, the yes vote just meant staying in a confederation. Every SSR voted in favor, but (okay I had to Google this part) the ones listed above boycotted the referendum

i dont really understand the distinction. every ssr except the boycotting ones voted in favour of staying in a union, so they wanted to be one country still then ? doesnt that mean that stuff about repressed nationalisms tearing the union apart didnt hold for the vast majority of the soviet population?

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011

shut the hell up wj

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011
but you repeat yourself

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011

Sheng-Ji Yang posted:

slashie/tb destroyed postgarden, after she got lf kicked off of wddp. she was friends with the main admin who let her run her struggle sessions endlessly until people were being run off the forum for the most mundane poo poo. eventually she harassed some teenager so much for not liking anime (not liking anime was a sign of racism or something) that he had a mental breakdown and the forum finally turned on her, and the admin rather than ban her shut down the forum. it was incredibly dumb poo poo.

at that point though the only good thread was the economic meltdown thread.

in the grand tradition of victim blaming i'd just like to say that any forum that saw her posts and didn't shoot on sight deserved what it got

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011

im never going to read a word of this. namaste

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011

R. Guyovich posted:

it's a parody post of a long rambling tirade by someone who bought the lettuce dog fb page.

socialism in 1945: backed by the best fuckin military in the world
socialism in 2019: lettuce dog parody

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011
anyone have good books/articles/journos or historians to follow/whatever on the DDR, german reunification and the aftereffects?

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011

Frog Act posted:

there was a period both before and after WW2 where the Soviets channeled money into Weimar/West German film to produce Communist propaganda films that had actual narratives. I watched a bunch in a film class I took with an old leftist and they’re exactly the type of films I wish were still being made. they had an explicit, left-wing message while simultaneously being well-made and written films

my favorite example is “Mother Krause’s Journey Into Happiness” about living in the interwar Berlin slums

I like the Eastern bloc red westerns a lot

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011
There's no way that's not a getfiscal meme

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011

Frog Act posted:

we argued about the cultural revolution and forced industrialization and I told them I was doing a history MA and that was when they told me I had bourgeois consciousness from the Liberal brainwashing machine that is university and stopped talking to me, so we didn’t get to that point

it was sort of funny in the sense that they self evidently had not read any Marx or even secondary Marxists like Lukàcs or Luxembourg or probably even Mao himself outside of “Combat Liberalism”, and so for them Maoism was probably more of a theological thing than a political one

I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as Maoism, is in fact, Marxism-Leninism/Maoism, or as I've recently taken to calling it, Marxism/Leninism plus Maoism. Maoism is not a framework of political economy unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning Marxist-Leninist system made useful by Marxist-Leninist theories, practice and vital system components comprising a full framework of political economy as defined by Ricardo.

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011
you saw what happened in 41, the ussr taking on industrialized western europe following the civil war would probably have ended pretty badly

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011
Reading capital, marx says:

- a commodity has both a use and exchange value
- money is a commodity

how doth this explain fiat money. i can see it working for gold, but the US dollar has no real use value no?

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011
Instead we're setting the amazon on fire out of raw spite

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011

Autism Sneaks posted:

that's a moot point because it's gonna take guns pointed at those doe-eyed peasants just to get them to stop doing capitalism and environmental degredation, might as well make them read a dictionary and some Marx while they're at it

because marx was definitely a proponent of the It's Not My Job To Educate You school of thought.

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011

gradenko_2000 posted:

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3788502

praxis is posting right-wing authoritarians in this thread

this thread pwns. apparently a tankie is someone who doesn't want to send the tanks into venezuela

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011
also actually discussing any of the content posted is haram. you should move it to cspam homex

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011

Serf posted:

i appreciate the poster going "venezuela is like if the supreme court was to start curtailing the efforts of the other two branches and making it so they can't pass laws" when new york literally just repealed their ban on conversion therapy out of fear that it would be struck down by the supreme court lmao

i appreciate the poster defending ukrainian nazis. that thread is a nice little hiding spot for all kinds of people

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011
lol

Kchama posted:

Sadly not even SA is immune from chemical weapons truthers. I see people shrieking about Brown Moses way too much as a result.

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011
had a discussion with someone with about whether soviet annexations could be classified as imperialism.

my feeling was that imperialism was primarily about being extractive; like what the british did to india, taking out resources, and not only not giving them anything in return but making them buy the finished products made from their resources with their own money. gdp, quality of life, etc crumble and the only infrastructure built like rail is in order to facilitate resource exploitation - the imperialist country takes out more than they put in

i think there's an argument that that's what the ussr did to east germany with reparations and all, but is it true with any of their constituent republics or even most of the warsaw pact? like the azeri, armenian, kazakh whatever SSRs - did the central government act in a resource extractive way, or did they put in more than they took out with the buildup of industry, health, education, transport and other infrastructure?

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011
where do people go for leftist perspectives on geopolitics/random countries and whats going on there. like if i wanted to know whats up in for eg, armenia, whats my options. jacobin?

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011

mila kunis posted:

where do people go for leftist perspectives on geopolitics/random countries and whats going on there. like if i wanted to know whats up in for eg, armenia, whats my options. jacobin?

i just googled jacobin armenia and got this

quote:


In a speech he delivered to the parliament shortly before he was elected prime minister Pashinyan stated that he was “beyond ideology.” In reality, the pledges of his government have shown the new regime to be firmly within the tradition of European liberalism: promising free, fair, and transparent elections, alongside the dismantling of corrupt state structures and economic monopolies and their replacement with meritocratic institutions and market mechanisms.

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011
Anyone have recommendations for marxist economists who write analyses of capital flows, trades, profitability, productivity, industries etc in 2019? So far I like michael hudson and michael roberts, but i'm looking for more

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011

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mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011
what was the bakunin line

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