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Sheng-ji Yang posted:do you consider a Revolutionary Marxist-Leninist Party working toward International Socialist Revolution in the United States less crazier than the greens? the proximity to the shitfest dimension of dnd is really starting to show
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Jan 30, 2016 03:13
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Homework Explainer posted:it does, but hey who's this guy marx anyway? he's dead now. shows how much he knows let me tell you something buddy or i s it "comrade" with you people? socialism has been responsible for the death o f milliuons and millions and even more misery dont come in and spit on AMERICA and tell me its raining
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Jan 30, 2016 03:24
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:class collaboration is great and crisis isnt inherent to capitalism! hey hey its called a business cycle wise guy
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Jan 30, 2016 03:28
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:In 1904 your average Russian peasant was a patriotic, God-fearing, Czar-loving sort. By 1917, this was no longer the case. because in 1905 the czarist guards on the czars orders, slaughtered peaceful marching women and children and destroyed their illusion that the czar will save them from the evil nobility the great depression was supposed to do the same for the US but we had the Red Scares and the Cold War so by the time the great recession hit there were no one left to sharpen the guillotines
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Jan 30, 2016 19:49
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Homework Explainer posted:*floats by* the cia and nsa monitor social media, please keep this in mind at all times!!!!! *floats away* i love when you use those *emotes* in threads its endearing and really wakes up the imagination juice because i just imagined a talking frog floating by budwisering about the  monitoring everything
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Jan 30, 2016 19:52
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0oFEqQbNf0 you bums!
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Feb 13, 2016 01:03
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imo homework explainer is a good poster and its fun reading his posts but thats basically it
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Feb 13, 2016 01:29
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dumb post
Top City Homo fucked around with this message at 00:06 on Sep 10, 2017 |
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Feb 13, 2016 10:38
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just garbage
Top City Homo fucked around with this message at 00:06 on Sep 10, 2017 |
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Feb 13, 2016 18:08
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imidge posted:When you say actual Odessan do you mean you live in Odessa? im from odessa
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Feb 13, 2016 18:49
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imidge posted:Oh so like the first generation Cubans that live in Florida. That probably gives you some unique insight if I'm being totally honest. Cool. [prints out your post and throws it in the garbage] lol
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Feb 13, 2016 19:08
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the right sector people sure profited from their nationalist adventures by getting 1-2 seats in parliament a stranglehold of fascism
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Feb 13, 2016 19:14
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Homework Explainer posted:it seems kind of like a chicken and egg scenario where one power acted first but now both are contesting the territory directly or by proxy. maidan may very well have begun in good faith but obviously the new government is acting in alignment with western interests. having a new imf debtor nation with public assets that can be sold off worked out pretty handily for the united states and the eu, no? that part is pretty terrible but being involved with the imf is generally terrible i don't think its a conspiracy though because the whole point was to align with western interests but in the sense of integrating with europe not integrating with the pilfering gaunt bureaucrats of the IMF
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Feb 13, 2016 19:17
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btw anyone can tell me wtf is happening in Venezuela? like why are they always missing food despite having a shitton of oil im genuinely interested to find out and will accept all conspiracy theories as plausible.
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Feb 13, 2016 19:26
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Homework Explainer posted:svoboda's been barricaded out now, yeah, but as i linked above the government's fully invested in neoliberal austerity. a fascist gov would be worse, but this one isn't much of an improvement! the eu is basically neoliberal austerity personified
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Feb 13, 2016 22:51
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:retarded leftist reason: amerikkka and the rest of the OWG sabotaged poor noble chavez before murdering him and intentionally bankrupted venezuela to send a message to brave socialists worldwide i read that the country had to import most of its food wtf thats super dumb no one thought of having a mixed agricultural sector under worker self management whoops another opportunity in the trash
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Feb 13, 2016 22:53
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:what has happened in venezuela is a pretty textbook example of what happens when a country with a heavy reliance on imports for staple goods rapidly develops its export sector. chavez and later maduro certainly reacted in the worst possible way to this and their policies have made things much, much worse-- also both were/are incredibly, almost cartoonishly corrupt-- but the core problem is that venezuela experienced a huge oil boom, resulting in a serious influx of foreign funds that made it difficult for local businesses to afford imports. a kleptocratic moron takes over the reigns of government, fails to understand that his government took over from another government that lost power after the price of oil collapsed and fails to plan ahead like the Norwegians. doesn't develop worker cooperatives in agriculture hands out industry to cronies instead of workers fails spectacularly chavez is another terrible idiot on the road to communism as they said in russia Forward on the road to Communism! But I am hungry! "No one said you will be fed on the road to communism."
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Feb 13, 2016 23:00
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Jewel Repetition posted:I doubt that would be why, but Fishmech is a Something Awful socialist and he had a long retarded argument in the Dem thread about how the TPP was real cool. its one of those retarded "scientific leninist marxist" socialism arguments that we must literally stomp the working class to death by building up a corporate capitalist system like some autistic bullet point instead of just encouraging worker control locally like the Communist Party of Italy did in Emilia-Romagna.
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Feb 13, 2016 23:09
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Omi-Polari posted:I'd just want to point out that the U.S. oil industry is getting hammered, too. The difference being that the American economy is not a rentier state dependent on a single, highly risky commodity to keep the whole country afloat. (That's just North Dakota, Alaska and, to a lesser extent, Texas.) ah the us is overfinancialized monopoly/collectivist capitalism personified and we are basically rentier considering we took pharmaceutical life saving drugs that have for centuries been considered as a public good like air and water and gave them to worthless ip trolls same with oil land telecoms energy no one actually knows what the US produces any more other than weapons and bad cars
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Feb 13, 2016 23:12
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:chavez is never dead, comrade. as long as somewhere, a central bank president buys his sixteen year old mistress a thirty thousand dollar dress... a twitter account is opened for people to report their neighbors for "counterrevolutionary" activity... as long as somewhere, a 19 year old history major furiously tweets a twelve-part defense of nationalizing industry, chavez lives within us all arguably capital flight is a response to a lack of capital controls on banking chavez could have eased the economy into socialism by using oil money to purchase stock of national leaders and banks but he basically went around willy nilly expropriating with blunt force no framework no nothing
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Feb 13, 2016 23:16
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1mpper posted:anyway if anyone is interested in the ideological and theoretical underpinnings of the effort for socialism in venezuela, i highly recommend this article: http://monthlyreview.org/2015/04/01/chavez-and-the-communal-state/ i read it a while back its good but chavez was still a gently caress up and the US did meddle due to its long history of south american imperialism but if he wasn't such a gently caress up he could've made it work i understand that the history of south america is that even moderate left wing popular movements are targeted by US coercion so why not go full on socialist from the get go but it was done in a very bad way and left them vulnerable to corruption and coup thats my take away
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Feb 13, 2016 23:45
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1mpper posted:you're making the classic mistake of taking the vast amount of propaganda about venezuela, financed by that soft power, at face-value. what a surprise that literally every person who actually does fight against u.s. imperialism is portrayed as a corrupt evil monster by the institutions intimately intertwined with western and bourgeois power structures. i reject the narrative that it's purely individual chavista policies that contributed to the current crisis, because that's obviously not the case. no one said it was purely terrible policies but they helped so did the embargo and allying with iran this is one of the dumb things that leftists have to get over bad people will sometimes sound like you but they are still terrible people its like some weirdo leftie affinity scam that keeps on popping up
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Feb 14, 2016 00:24
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:I just have this knee-jerk reflex against Liberal optimism, because the typical sentiment in the Venezuela thread is "I don't see how any other leadership could have been worse." It could have been a lot worse. Top City Homo fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Sep 10, 2017 |
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Feb 14, 2016 07:55
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Hm. No. just dumb poo poo i wrote that should not be repeated Top City Homo fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Sep 10, 2017 |
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Feb 14, 2016 22:47
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:You're an idiot.  all that salt for a mass murderer
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Feb 14, 2016 23:51
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:I'm not a big Stalin fan or anything, but claiming that "Stalinism" was Slavic Fascism is some Grade A reductionist bullshit. It's literally what my Libertarian history professor tried to sell us at a satellite college. .. Top City Homo fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Sep 10, 2017 |
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Feb 15, 2016 00:08
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rudatron posted:'Bolshevik discipline' can refer to a lot of things, but given that it's probably democratic centralism, that absolutely is a prerequisite for a successful organization. If you do the whole anarchist splits-forever ala Occupy, you get what happened to Occupy, every loving time. It doesn't have to lead to Stalin, and probably shouldn't if done properly. ... Top City Homo fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Sep 10, 2017 |
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Feb 15, 2016 00:13
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Behold my shame: a serious post. Enjoy posted:Fascism is a movement centred around ultra-nationalism, chauvinism, militarism and a corporatist conception of society. I am always saddened when people understand socialism but are completely baffled by fascism. Fascism is revolutionary "socialist nationalism". It is a degenerate offshoot of revolutionary socialism (yellow socialism), and at some point believed that it was the evolution of socialism. so its really important that you don't treat fascism like an alien ideology. Robert Michels, for example, believed that socialism was tamed by the ruling elites and co opted into the liberal framework that required a vanguardist proletarian elite to lead a national syndicalist revolution, because the masses had immense energy but no will to shape social evolution. A lot a of fascists were former socialists dissatisfied with the failure of international revolution and hated the diffusion of energy, futility and failure of trying to organize an international workers struggle. They wanted to find a solution to the "social problem" as it was defined within the nation state and did this by exchanging class solidarity for national solidarity while using Marxist language to inspire violent revolution. Their analysis is basically Marxist but anti-communist within a wide spectrum of mild to virulent antisemitism: 1.) a weak bourgeoisie state beholden to conflicting international capitalist (Jewish) interest that needed to be overthrown for their failure and replaced by a strong vital heroism 2.) social chaos caused by the failure of capitalist economics that allowed international (Bolshevik/Jewish) forces to destabilize the country and lose its national identity as defined by its petty bourgeoisie leadership. Here is what actually constituted fascism: Anti-capitalism: Capitalism was associated with international finance (not private property) that preyed on a weak bourgeoisie state. The elites had hampered change for too long and a popular dictatorial national revitalization would be necessary to stop the looting of national wealth. Heroism: A liberal democratic parliament represented a weak state beholden to conflicting interests. Elections rotated a failing ruling class while stifling real change through bureaucracy. The proletariat (petty bourgeoisie in reality) could only find respite in a true revolutionary overthrow of the liberal state. The masses needed a charismatic authority who would use the power of the state to intercede on their behalf. Heroism meant action instead of deliberation and the rule of law and unity of purpose instead of factionalism. Elitism: This is where many people fall off and confuse it with corporatism. Fascism didn't really have an economic policy. It had a social goal and that goal was worker repression. Unionism, workers self management and cooperativism was destroyed by fascist policies and subordinated to industrial giants with the backing of the state. Gaetano Mosca's Elite Theory described a natural scientific social order where a minority class of enlightened controlled a passive majority of workers with the wholesale backing of the state apparatus which would win "labor peace" through the guarantee of full employment and some social services. Fascists believed in a natural order of gifted men to rule the population as long as the social order had mechanisms to replace the elite, those with superior organizational skills, who failed to rule wisely. The revolution would not stop the natural cyclical nature of elites or the pyramid structure of society. On a side note, Michal Kalecki made a very interesting analysis on the political implication of full employment and why full employment has only been seen in fascist states. http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/2010/kalecki220510.html International Struggle: The class struggle envisioned by Marxism was turned into the struggle of the nation state against international enemies. The state became the worker and the world the capitalist class against which the nation was to be eternally aggrieved. Society would be regimented against enemies who wanted to weaken it from within or without. erased a bunch of dumb bullshit Top City Homo fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Sep 10, 2017 |
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Feb 15, 2016 03:13
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Homework Explainer posted:no one brought up the ussr or the prc itt until dork anticoms decided to trundle in and whine about it ,... Top City Homo fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Sep 10, 2017 |
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Feb 15, 2016 03:17
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:this is a really good post just FYI thanks just to clarify fascists believed in the overthrow of the liberal state because it entrenched elites that failed to protect the state against the predations of what was widely seen as failed late capitalism. Socialism was on the rise and every popular sentiment understood that socialism in some form will replace it or become much more prominent. It was seen as inevitable Fascism was the co-option of socialism in the same way that the aristocracy co-opted capitalism after the French Revolution.
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Feb 15, 2016 03:36
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Enjoy posted:This is pathetic. Playing word association ("socialism in one country sounds similar to nationalism!") doesn't prove anything at all. And most fascists were not ex-socialists. For example, in the July 1932 German election, only 2% of the Nazi vote were former Communist voters, and 10% former Socialists. Mussolini is a single exception who was ejected from his party because his ideas were not compatible with socialism. Fascists formed alliances (the Harzburg Front, the National Blocs, the Spanish nationalists) with other right-wing groups because they were ideologically similar to them. What the hell are you talking about? National socialism was a syndicalist movement. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_socialism Here. I am give this book out to everyone who repeats their incomprehension about fascism. http://tinyurl.com/hd7swb9 socialism in one country is national socialism. You want to talk about the KPD? OK. Ernst Thälmann was Stalin's lemming in Germany and he followed the "social fascism" dictate against social democrats by allying with the SA as "working people's comrades" against the Social Democrats. Go read about the Red Referendum and the KPD's plan's to overthrow the Nazis after voting for them en masse, not as ex communists but because it would lead to an accelerationist communist revolution. http://www.marxist.com/oldsite/germany/chapter7.html "After Hitler, our turn!"
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Feb 15, 2016 04:02
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Enjoy posted:Apparently Stalin was right, and the social democrats really were fascists. lol
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Feb 15, 2016 04:02
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Enjoy posted:Socialism in one country was a stupid blunder by Stalin but it isn't equivalent to fascism. Benito Mussolini positively reviewed Stalinism as having transformed Soviet Bolshevism into a Slavic fascism. http://imgur.com/71oxrEu like recognizes like. quote:That's the logical conclusion of your argument. I loled because i just posted a link on how social fascism theory plunged Germany into Hitler's control. It's another reason to learn from history. quote:If fascism is mostly about the origins of the movement rather than the expressed goals of the fascists, then every state is basically the same as every other state, and every ideology is equivalent, because they've all had influences on one another. I provided a historical origin of fascism because it is important to recognize and understand their arguments. It is especially important when Werner Sombart, one of the great Marxians, to the point where Karl Marx said that he understood his writings better than anyone, later made a turn to what became the national socialist movement. Also, you can't just smear nationalism when at that age of imperial rule it was considered a fairly democratic ideology and war was a natural state of diplomacy. There was nothing remarkable in the age of imperialism that an ideology was talking about war as diplomacy or trying to achieve liberal nationalist goals. It was the fusion of nationalism with the popularity of socialism that was unique. Fascism was incredibly popular at the beginning of the 20th century and its popularity was related to its origins. That means that there is a thin wedge in the switch between revolutionary socialism and fascism. That's why its important to recognize the symptoms. The goals are irrelevant, only the results. As Stafford Beer said: The purpose of a system is what it does. Both Bolshevism and fascism suppressed democratic workers movements and constructed an authoritarian nationalist social model based on vanguardist elitism. they could call themselves whatever they wanted. The thin wedge was crossed with Bolshevism. Socialism is when workers get democratic self management. Anything else is just degrees of oppression. "We are convinced that liberty without socialism is privilege, injustice; and that socialism without liberty is slavery and brutality." -Mikhail Bakunin yep.
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Feb 15, 2016 05:46
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swampman posted:"socialism in one country is national socialism." Lol. People, this is what happens when you think you know what you're talking about, but you don't. "Oh, did you know that oil-producing nations are typically unified, see the United States and the United Arab Emirates both produce oil...." You jump around from "bolshevism" to "Leninism/Stalinism" to "socialism" to "communism" and use obscurantist terms like "yellow socialism" which have many different meanings. By your own account "yellow socialists" rejected Marxist socialism, in fact they were hated by Marxists. Eventually they invaded USSR and killed 30 million people, is your enlightened perspective a century later that it was all predicated on a trivial semantic policy difference that eluded the Nazis and the Russians alike, or they would have thrown down their arms and worked together for the Third Reich? Look at the big brain on the historically insightful poster I don't understand what is so confusing. Leninism started out as authoritarian socialism (still based on worldwide revolution) and continued on its logical course to red fascism with Stalinism (national socialism; purely pragmatic goals; abandonment of worldwide revolution). Stalin only continued what Lenin started https://libcom.org/library/lenins-terror-bolshevik-party-maximov Hitler and Stalin did work together. They cut up Poland and Finland between each other and Hitler had a deal on Eastern Europe with with Ribbentrop. I don't really why they would have to work together for eternity anymore than Mao decided to stop working with the USSR or Tito or anyone else. They all had ideological differences. The reason this discussion even started is because someone mentioned democratic centralism to get discipline in socialist parties. I said that democratic centralism is elitist and has never provided for socialism which is defined as democratic worker control of the means of production. Every so called vanguardist intermediate state theory has so far provided us with worker oppression no different than the fascists so i suggest trying another form of organization. peace
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Feb 15, 2016 06:07
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Enjoy posted:And Tony Blair was pals with Gaddafi, so bourgeois social democracy is basically the same thing as Arab nationalism. I told you already I don't care about ideology. The party structure and mentality that thrived in both systems fostered decision making that gave similar policy results as fascism. That's why you don't organize a party around vanguardist democratic centralist bullshit unless you want to destroy worker movements.
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Feb 15, 2016 06:18
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Enjoy posted:Wow, there's really no point in replying to you is there you have no critical thinking skills at all i think your future is to vote for trump if you represent the membership of the PSL then this party can gently caress right off into obscurity where it belongs until you fossils die and some normal people who can actually think grow up to do something worthwhile.
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Feb 15, 2016 06:25
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Homework Explainer posted:you've posted a lot of incorrect stuff itt but this is patently false. the soviet union's hand was forced and they knew germany would invade soon. molotov-ribbentrop was a way to buy some time and prepare after the west turned them down. This is a very odd interpretation considering in the article the historian says that the Soviets were not serious and then confirmed it when in August 1939 they ignored pleas from the French about a western alliance and decided to go with the German one. Beginning in September 1939, the Soviet Comintern suspended all anti-Nazi and anti-fascist propaganda, explaining that the war in Europe was a matter of capitalist states attacking each other for imperialist purposes. I guess violating the 1932 Polish-Soviet Non-Aggression Pact was not imperialist, the conquest of the Baltics never happened and Stalin never extended in secret protocols an offer to join the Axis powers. The Soviets had plans for eastern Europe and the revival of Imperial Russian territory and Stalin was Hitler's best ally before the invasion. Hitler was not Stalin's immediate worry. Stalin wasn't prepared when Germany attacked and even executed for disinformation a German communist that came over the border with news of Operation Barbarossa. If they had plans to go to war with each other they were not immediate because the focus was on carving up Europe.
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Feb 15, 2016 09:09
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rudatron posted:Comparing Bolshevism to fascism is absolutely dishonest. It was anti-capitalist as they defined it: in the sense it was "anti-international finance supercapitalism" which they identified with foreign (British/Jewish interests). I mentioned this already. The fascists were very much for actual capitalism and the Nazis were the first modern nation to introduce privatization. https://www.jacobinmag.com/2014/04/capitalism-and-nazism/ the perpetuated hierarchy was the problem. The nomenklatura pushed for perestroika because they already believed themselves to be capitalists. That's why a different organizational system is important. They were wrong because they butchered and murdered their way to power, almost joined the Axis and then ossified the definition of communism to their creaky nationalized and bureaucratized exchange system. Learning from their mistakes would be a good start.
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Feb 15, 2016 09:19
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Homework Explainer posted:as far as worker control in the soviet union, you're operating under misconceptions there, too. absolutely essential reading from a maoist historian who went into the projects skeptical of the ussr: I appreciate that you are providing these alternative sources of information even if they are little more than puff pieces by very serious propagandists.
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Feb 15, 2016 09:35
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swampman posted:This is nonsense, especially since "Bolshevism" is not the name of an ideology, it's the name of a political party that was active from 1905 until 1952 when it did not even dissolve but changed its name. Even if you can provide an example from one point in history, the deciding moment for the Bolsheviks was based on their full support of democratic workers movements, they were opposed to the Mensheviks in that they represented the working classes and not the liberal bourgeois. my opinion is that while you seem like an interesting person in the sense that you are passionate about your arguments i also get the vibe, and this is nothing personal or mean spirited, that you are all really odd people with weird ideas that are based on a constructed pseudo-reality. the reason is that you combined "CIA agent Khrushchev" and I have to be honest those words tell me that you are on a level of historical revisionism that rivals Time Cube. but this is fun so please tell me why was Khrushchev a CIA agent? Top City Homo fucked around with this message at 09:47 on Feb 15, 2016 |
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Feb 15, 2016 09:39
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