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Ferrinus posted:"act as a class rather than as a state" is basically word salad from the standpoint of marxist theory, which understands the state as the vehicle of the ruling class's domination of society. it's like asking someone to shoot with their hand rather than with a gun it's sort of a matter of not letting the state subsume the class and constantly using the state while recognizing that it is the enemy. it is the have your cake and eat it too ideology of socialism, but i do think the "whithering away" of the state is sort of an ephemeral and abstract goal that marxists and revolutionaries have tried to unlock for generations so i think it's noble to work towards as long as it's not in service of western propaganda against nominally socialist regimes that have made progress with education, healthcare, etc. leftcoms and anarchists believe equally that the state is inherently antagonistic against workers, but anarchists believe a "workers' state" is undesirable whereas leftcoms believe it is desirable, but impossible because of the inherent nature of the state as an instrument of bourgeois rule, hence they want workers to run the state but also be constantly working for its own abolition???? they basically want to square a circle for better or worse i used to identify a lot with leftcom ideology and now i'm pretty agnostic about everything these days and i think strategy should be more adaptive than based on ideology imo Yossarian-22 fucked around with this message at 01:54 on May 11, 2021 |
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May 11, 2021 01:49
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| # ¿ May 11, 2024 15:02 |
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apropos to nothing posted:lotta what i feel are mischaracterizations here but whatever, its not really important. more important imo is to stop treating "tendencies" as a thing, the way they are discussed online is and itt is almost totally divorced from the actual political situation as it exists now. SA and SEP (the WSWS people) are both technically trotskyists, but to compare the two organizations as being similar in almost any concrete way is absurd. look at all the different caucuses in dsa, many of them can be lumped together or pitted as against each other ideologically but then support and follow through on the exact same political program. CPN are generously social democrats, some of their leading members work as campaign staffers for democratic politicians, some of whom arent even supported or endorsed by local DSA chapters, bread and roses call themselves marxists though people will argue that theyre trotskyists or social democrats, etc. emerge in NYC talks about communism and from what I know could maybe be seen as what most people would describe as MLs, but all of them together fundamentally agree about the way DSA operates currently within the democratic party, theres no disagreement between them on the issue. I mostly agree with this. It's mostly performative LARPing But also gently caress 90% of anarchists they are stupid babies
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May 11, 2021 02:06
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this is still incoherent if we understand the state as an instrument of class power (and not some sort of self-willed entity with its own agenda). the state isn't your enemy if you've seized class power. rather, it is your weapon it's both imo. the problem that some trotskyists make is they reduce the degeneration of the ussr to individuals rather than to the nature of the state post-civil war. i think assuming that the state is "socialist" as soon as workers run it is sort of like assuming that workplaces are "socialist" as soon as they become cooperatives, i.e. it's a necessary goal for workers to seize both the means of production and the state but it's also important to abolish the relations of production, and that becomes harder the longer the state/capital is able to exist even if it's ostensibly under working class control, because without constant pushing it can potentially just end up recreating the old relationships of production under new management among a clique of the workers, party, etc. of course how do you abolish the market and the commodity relationship if you exist in a capitalist world order in which some countries are constantly going to undermine you at every turn? either you push the revolution abroad which requires the state to assist revolutions around the world, or you become more conservative/inward looking and reconcile yourself with the way of the world somewhat. so either way you're going to have to utilize a lot of state power despite the protests of anarchists
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May 11, 2021 02:50
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AnimeIsTrash posted:Kerala did a really good job of lockdown, one of the first things they did was provide everyone with refillable rations. Shame the rest of the country is controlled by hindu fascists. progressives control most of the states in south india because there is a lot of separatist nationalism among minority groups who are way more prominent than hindis there, and generally can't stand modi/bjp as a result. modi's base afaik is in gujarat. communists also ruled west bengal for a long time but now anti-communist centrists are in control the chief minister of tamil nadu, the state my gf's family is from, is literally a guy named mk stalin who was named after the mustachioed fellow we all know and love he's one of the few in india who gives a gently caress about kashmiris too https://mobile.twitter.com/mkstalin/status/1158352492855353344 Yossarian-22 fucked around with this message at 05:13 on May 11, 2021 |
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May 11, 2021 05:09
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ToxicAcne posted:Non-western Trots seem to be much better about the anti-imperialism like Tariq Ali or CLR James. #NotAllTrots CLR James owned. His book on the Haitian Revolution was an all timer
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May 11, 2021 18:18
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Thump! posted:oh god not my forums clout acting not mad is inversely proportional to how mad u are at a given time
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May 13, 2021 18:04
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pener and i fought a lot when he was around and he also wrote wordy posts like ferrinus, but i feel solidarity with him as a gamer
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May 14, 2021 02:16
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larry and ferrinus are both cia plants who are trying to divert us from talking about communism to arguing about r-word. i am a jewish person with generalized anxiety disorder and asperger's and i have my ways of knowing these things, and this is unapologetically my truth
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May 14, 2021 05:43
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| # ¿ May 11, 2024 15:02 |
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y'all, people named f******s are new type of guy (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 15, 2021 18:56
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