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Sheng-ji Yang posted:from each according to his pizza making ability, to each according to their pizza eating needs Does he think pots and pans will be banned? If you have wheat, salt, yeast, tomatoes, cheese, water, olive oil, and heat, you can make delicious pizza at home. Seriously, pizza is gonna be with humanity forever, it'll never be uninvented. Even if, in the glorious communist revolution, everybody got to leave their soul-sucking jobs tomorrow, there would STILL be pizza ovens in the world. They don't disintegrate, there just won't be low-paid people to operate them by your tummy's whims. Because there's no private property, you just walk to the former Dominos and use their ovens, and they don't call the cops to arrest you. If I can't make my own pizza, it's not my revolution Mofabio fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Jan 28, 2016 |
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Jan 27, 2016 23:54
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The Saurus posted:Okay let's assume There's just been a communist revolution there's been a 140x increase in agricultural productivity in the past 200 years. there's plenty of food available for very little work -- basically volunteer levels of work you could spend a year of your life on an industrial farm, and make more than enough food for an entire life. you'd just go to the store and take some. food isn't scarce anymore. Agriculture's the easiest thing. The actual hard stuff in a free society would be chemicals, since no free person is gonna ever volunteer their life and environment to turn valves in the cancer factory. And there isn't high reliability or stockpiles the way there is with our housing stock, car stocks, cooking equipment, etc Mofabio fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Jan 28, 2016 |
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Jan 28, 2016 02:34
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the purpose of the democratic party is to negotiate with social movements in order to destroy them; the purpose of the republican party is to prevent social movements in the first place, by redirecting legitimate grievances to nonsensical places in either case, the purpose of the parties is to prevent a revolutionary social movement
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Feb 3, 2016 21:49
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Bryter posted:Actual socialist parties care, apparently it's just another chapter in the long co-optation of leftist words. policing the language is a strategy used by social justice movements too. it's especially true for anarchists, who had to deal with libertarian - a word originally coined when self-identification as anarchist was illegal - getting bought/stolen by the far-right in the 60s. now it's anarcho-capitalism, which has zero to do with anarchism.
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Feb 3, 2016 23:57
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My fav [neo]liberal pro-immigration talking point is how they pretend to care about the workers. 'for the same factory work, they could be making higher wages in the US! you're just keeping them in poverty!' If we actually cared about Foreign People, then there are cheaper options. We could just send foreign companies designs for our biotech facilities, or automated car factory designs and gcode, or Google/Facebook could send them their search/feed code and server farm design, etc etc. Then they could work in an identical facility and they wouldn't have to move. it'd be a huge win for foreign people, but that's not the point now is it
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Feb 10, 2016 20:32
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there's tons of work to be done, but wage labor is an extremely crappy way to go about it anecdote: just joined a commie science group, all volunteer, all donated lab equipment. in six months of evenings and weekends they've gone from not knowing poo poo about biology to expressing insulin in e.coli, in hopes to one day make medicine free. they're still optimizing the plasmid construct, but it warms my red heart. that sort of poo poo would take over a year in a university lab, or several in a pharma lab, because wage work is indeed miserable and should be actually abolished in favor of voluntary labor.
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Feb 26, 2016 05:11
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rudatron posted:Well, guess what, wage labor with a variable, chosen wage is a good way to go about that. or you just recycle your waste back into food at POU i should write something up about this, but recent advances in artificial photosynthesis, as well as microreactors, are putting actual food replicators (and medicine, and basic chemistry) on the 50-year horizon. what happens when workers are able to strike indefinitely? edit: don't delay the glorious revolution for this poo poo though, fight where you stand Mofabio fucked around with this message at 10:26 on Feb 26, 2016 |
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Feb 26, 2016 10:23
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it is incredibly disheartening that this thread doesn't know whether it opposes wage labor, the fundamental source of exploitation in capitalism. the answer isn't the 20 hour week, or the 12 hour week, it's the zero hour week. a zero hour week still means humans will live in greater luxury than at any point in the last million years. if your toilet's broke, you fix your own plumbing. if your disabled neighbor's toilet's broke, you help to fix her plumbing. if all the toilets in your building are broke, you work with your neighbors to fix the sewer line. this isn't hard stuff, and it was already mostly automated anyway in the past 30 years with robotic pigging and snaking. you don't need a second motivator, like the threat of having your house foreclosed.
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Feb 26, 2016 21:41
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Homework Explainer posted:you're arguing for a straight shot to full communism, which is utopian thinking and unscientific. that's the endgame but there's a whole lotta socialism to come beforehand but i want it now i do think it's worth reminding people that communism isn't mystical, it's self-sufficiency and community-sufficiency, without getting regularly robbed. this thread spent a page on who'd make the pizza, and another on who'd clean the sewers. the answers are extremely easy -- way easier than explaining the extremely complicated bureaucracy of the domino's corporation. Mofabio fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Feb 26, 2016 |
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Feb 26, 2016 23:36
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i spent my afternoon repairing a blown expansion joint on a water discharge line (that's a thing that feeds into a sewer). I am here to report that it is, in fact, incredibly easy, and a 12 year old could do it by winging it. In fact, the vast majority of the time spent on it was doing paperwork, correcting the paperwork in SAP, documenting it for the next shift, and trying to convince the department over to buy the correct spare. but tell me more about the efficiencies of division of labor pizza, sewers, I wonder what the next one will be Mofabio fucked around with this message at 01:54 on Feb 27, 2016 |
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Feb 27, 2016 01:51
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hey I'd fix grandma's printer, I'm not a monster There are really complicated jobs out there, I'm just saying, as someone who's done it, piping sewer and sump work isn't one of them edit: the legitimate reason for the hours of paperwork is division of labor, because it takes 3 departments in coordination to do a job that takes 15 minutes of real work, including the logbook entry. Communication is an actual problem in gigantic, capital-intensive production Mofabio fucked around with this message at 02:19 on Feb 27, 2016 |
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Feb 27, 2016 02:07
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Dreddout posted:I am aware of this, but you need to realize that much of the modern First world Marxist movement is confined in Universities, something that won't endear you to much of the working class. yeah no kidding. correct me if i'm wrong, but it seems like the theme of your questions is "what can leftism offer, when looking out at the world today, it's brought so little?" all i can say is, don't be harmless. fight where you stand. if your political activity begins with a facebook debate and ends with voting, then no matter what your stance, you are absolutely harmless. don't spend a ton of time analyzing the correct scientific path to socialism. figure out what draws you to action, and then do it. maybe the growing american fascist movement needs some free dental work. maybe you love baking bread, and you wanna feed the lumpenproles. maybe you have a law degree, and want to keep some people out of cages. maybe you salt at walmart. maybe all you can do is radicalize your friends. just loving do something. the worst case is, you stay harmless. the likely case, you meet some fellow leftists and make a few people's lives a little better. the best case, your actions inspire others to action. Mofabio fucked around with this message at 03:02 on Mar 2, 2016 |
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Feb 29, 2016 22:41
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i watched the houston occupy GA tear itself up one night over 'illegals' chat, true story
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Mar 6, 2016 02:05
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Bishop posted:occupy Wall Street was a walking stereotype of why you don't let stoned hippies be in charge of a movement. Incoherent and inconsistent messaging, bad image management, the works. What's funny is both Bernie and wait for it... Trump have tapped into the economic discontent of the American worker in their own way, and people eat it up. Occupy had that chance and got in at the worst part of the recession and hosed it up. it was a secure place for homeless people to sleep and eat for free for several months. every internet liberal wanted to quarterback it, but when it came to preparing food or picking up trash...
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Mar 14, 2016 06:50
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re:violence, I'm gonna be honest I'd be a little disappointed if I turned 50 and still didn't know what banker tastes like
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Mar 16, 2016 06:21
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Wheeee posted:nothing's stopping you from finding out tomorrow *spits fingernail* AM I BEING DETAINED edit thx for summer backpacking reads Mofabio fucked around with this message at 08:28 on Mar 16, 2016 |
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Mar 16, 2016 08:21
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adding to the bookchat list: if you want to understand where western patriarchy came from: Caliban and the Witch (pdf) basically you spend a hundred years waging a terror campaign across europe and the new world, kill 200,000 women, make their daughters watch them burn, strip them of their traditional jobs as healers and midwifery, strip them of property, decriminalize rape, all to turn women into little worker factories. a marxist analysis of women's transition to capitalism. also a great history on peasant uprisings. if you want to understand the last great western general strike: May 68 And Its Afterlives about 1/3 about the maoist roots of may 68 and the algerian question background, and 2/3 about the later reaction of french New Philosophers, the May running dogs who'd trot out lies over the next decades, and how france in general recharacterized May from a genuine revolutionary moment to individualist youth rebelling against their parents. Kristin Ross is an excellent writer and it's a dang quick read for what it is if you want to understand the last great american general strike: Black Reconstruction just started this one so no big thoughts, but it took almost a century for history to acknowledge a black man was right: the slaves freed themselves via general strike, as the union pushed further south if you want to understand early capitalism: Empire of Cotton goes really really well with late victorian holocausts. why was the first indian holocaust in 1877? because in response to the US civil war cotton famine, the raj built infrastructure to convert the indian countryside to commodity production. book is pretty liberal, but since marxism is scientific, that just means you have to translate its facts and events into your framework yourself 75% women and people of color good stuff to alt-tab to when you're supposed to be working
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Mar 16, 2016 22:53
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no more seizing my means of reproduction
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Mar 23, 2016 04:21
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:stupid stupid liberals i wish liberals would think about and apply liberal values to the workplace. a workplace with free speech, a free press by workers, elections for bosses and CEOs, right to appeal punishments, pay and position equality, and a social contract instead of individual contracts and you're on the red road to socialism, brother but like jewel repetition said, challenging the authoritarian structure of the workplace is for goddamn crazies
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Mar 23, 2016 20:15
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Jack of Hearts posted:Suppose everything you say is true. Then the solution is simple: stop taking the loving bait. There are definitely liberals who use the USSR to discredit anything to the left of Bernie Sanders, but I don't understand why all you vanguardists immediately have to jump in to defend Stalin-sama's honor every time it happens. E.g., this thread's got 10x more stalinist accusations than it does anything interesting to say about that period if hillary clinton posted 12% growth, year after year after year, you don't think we'd let her get by with a few thousand political prisoners? you don't think ezra klein would write op-eds to defend it? "these people threaten 12% growth" is all she'd have to say to throw a bunch of BLM activists in prison. if hillary clinton then went on to defeat literal hitler, you don't think a whole mass of people would turn a blind eye to a genocide? one challenge that i've heard indigenous american activists face is that, loads of americans believe that "we won" and all the indigenous people are gone. that's in america, 2016. it's an incredibly interesting period in russian history, made monochromatic by the discussion ITT.
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Sep 8, 2016 19:26
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Peel posted:this isn't a call to engage disingenuous liberal whataboutery of course. but that's precisely the problem, people keep taking the bait. what color would you say that bait is?
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Sep 8, 2016 20:13
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Zoran posted:I'm glad I voted for PSL
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Nov 9, 2016 11:32
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Larry Parrish posted:If the deportation/internment camp thing pans out I pray you know it's your civic duty as an American who theoretically respects the Bill of Rights to either register as a Muslim or form a chain gang to protect a mosque or whatever. no we liberate them
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Nov 18, 2016 00:20
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hundreds of people could marry themselves to the dem party reform struggle; at best you'd get 4-8 years, before it reverts back to form. democrats aren't willing to build and maintain left party structures (unions, class-consciousness building propaganda, african/indian nationalist orgs).
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Nov 18, 2016 05:13
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