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Finicums Wake posted:levins points out how these different mathematical models, in some cases, are able to capture more precisely what dialectics was always getting at. for example, the notion that quantitative shifts cause qualitative ones is captured by the modern notion of a phase shift, he claims. he points out ways in which these models are unable to capture other elements of dialectic thinking as well. but it seems to me the main difference is that 'systems thinking' is a loose assemblage of tools, and dialectics, as levins conceives it, is more like a critically self-conscious scientific research program, one which could deploy these 'systems thinking' models but is not reducible to them. it makes sense to me. while systems thinking is essentially a collection of tools, i wouldn't call it loose anymore, it's all part of more or less coherent methodologies. "systems thinking" has largely fallen out of use tho. i think today the methods fall under complexity and dynamical systems depending on subject matter. for example, while it is pretty lib poo poo as far as some conclusions (vote!), here is a fairly recent article applying complexity to US elections. necsi also offer relatively accessible courses if you're interested. imo levins was right. surgicalontologist who I think posted earlier itt wrote some great effortposts on systems thinking adjacent methods for behavior and philosophy of mind, like ... 10 years ago? lmao. it's an interesting topic, maybe he can add some thoughts.
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Jan 23, 2021 21:09
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apropos to nothing posted:everything that you agree with is real and true. anything that you disagree with is fake and a CIA op everything is real and true, especially the fake cia ops i disagree with.
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Apr 23, 2021 21:19
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Impermanent posted:The problem with internet leftists is that materialism unlocks a methodology for being correct about things few others are willing to acknowledge. Like any group of people with specialized knowledge (doctors, programmers, engineers) they immediately assume this new found power applies cross-discipline, and indeed in every facet of life and society. But you only know what you study. i think this is basically right. there's a reason academics learn to be detached and that reason is immersing yourself in theory is the fast-track to crazy town. but it has it .. backwards? internet political discourse is like a playground, and the political discourse there functions like a kind of practice or play activity. and that's smart, a big part of expertise is understanding its limits, and the only way you can get that is by trying to apply ideas to cases and seeing what feedback comes back. so i think what you're seeing as a problem is an intuitive learning strategy, basically people stumbling on nice looking ideas and ideologies in what they perceive as a safe environment, and then putting them in their mouths, like babies exploring novel objects do. thus the problem here isn't so much anything about internet leftists individually as that they are learners in an unsafe learning environment. the internet algorithmically encourages pushes people across ideologies (come to think of it, liberals approach statistics in this way too) onto aforementioned fast-track in the name of engagement, grossly distorting the learning feedback process in order to turn "people who are interested in theory" into "people who are overly immersed in theory" on a factory assembly line.
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May 1, 2021 10:04
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turd in my singlet posted:kind of understood some of this since im about halfway through Brain of the Firm lol. don't know anything about actual modern logistics tho, which seems like is where the 'pegging' part is coming from? i'm surprised cybernetics doesn't come up more on this forum same.
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May 1, 2021 19:02
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May 1, 2021 19:08
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trapped in the sphere of the bourgeois, send help
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May 14, 2021 11:59
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Tiler Kiwi posted:dont ever program, it makes you dumb as hell computers didn't appear from nowhere. i think you just have to add history to get out of the abstract universalism computers tend to teach here, and you basically have dialectical materialism. don't just look down, also look backwards and sideways.  (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 15, 2021 12:44
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