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Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

GunnerJ posted:

Guess it's really the "envisions" part I'm not clear on.

the white leaders in charge right now aren't envisioning a world where they get replaced by non-white leaders, they're imagining themselves leading a more diverse org

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Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

a convincing argument for posadism over the last few pages

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

Yandat posted:

how will communism deal with people like me, who if all my needs were basically provided for, i wouldnt give a poo poo about politics, self determination, or anything except for grilling all day and going to clubs and drag shows at night. inevitably a few nerds will dominate decision making

basically any millionaire who gets invested in politics is, in my opinion, completely insane. they dont understand yolo

don't underplay your significance to the community, what to grill is an important decision to make!

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

Yandat posted:

and yeah absolutely a lot of ultraleft people would rather stay irrelevant

you dont say

quote:

The right-wing intellectual is a knave, a conformist who refers to the mere existence of a given order as an argument for it, and mocks the Left on account of its utopian plans, which necessarily lead to catastrophe; while the left-wing intellectual is a fool, a court jester who publicly displays the lie of the existing order, but in a way which suspends the performative efficiency of his speech.

Today, after the fall of Socialism, the knave is the neoconservative advocate of the free market who cruelly rejects all forms of social solidarity as counterproductive sentimentalism, while the fool is a deconstructionist cultural critic who, by means of his ludic procedures destined to ‘subvert’ the existing order, actually serves as its supplement.

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

Yandat posted:

i tried to read that paragraph and didnt understand it. what does ludic mean


quote:

lu·dic
ˈl(y)o͞odik/Submit
adjectiveformal
showing spontaneous and undirected playfulness.


its saying the fool is the critic who because they're just criticizing the system because its enjoyable make themselves a useful tool to the system and the fact they're proclaiming they're subverting the system it doesnt make it true even if they're correctly labeling something bad

basically all the online scolds who wreck poo poo

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

the ban on cybernetics was a mistake

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

you kinda have to be an rear end not to buy a streetsheet if you can afford it

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

As I went walking I saw a sign there
And on the sign it said "No Trespassing."
But on the other side it didn't say nothing,
That side was made for you and me.

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

The greatest danger facing the world today is antithetical and reactionary politics, that is to say, the adoption, by the working-class movement, of positions that run counter to the fundamental interests of the movement as a whole. Such positions rip the heart out of the movement and expose it to the possibility of being crushed in a weaker position. Such positions are the mortal enemies of genuine mass work and undermine the possibility of the mass organisations developing and enduring with the class.

For revolutionaries to seek to implant their ideas or practices within the working-class movement, or to exploit contradictions within the working class as a means to discredit the possibility of revolution is misconceived from the start.

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

to make it realistic i should have tweeted it out as a 12 tweet thread

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

yeah to me the biggest affront is how bad the poetry sucked

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

Mr. Lobe posted:

didn't Marx have a skin condition he was very self-conscious about? it's hard to imagine him at an orgy

it’s how he got his name

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

Larry Parrish posted:

or, get this, some of us are actually poor and the idea of someone spending 6 months of my income on coke while masquerading as a leftist for the social benefits makes me see red

drat how many two liters is that?

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

Any new left in America must be, in large measure, a left with real intellectual skills, committed to deliberativeness, honesty, reflection as working tools. The university permits the political life to be an adjunct to the academic one, and action to be informed by reason.

A new left must be distributed in significant social roles throughout the country. The universities are distributed in such a manner.

A new left must consist of younger people who matured in the postwar world, and partially be directed to the recruitment of younger people. The university is an obvious beginning point.

A new left must include liberals and socialists, the former for their relevance, the latter for their sense of thoroughgoing reforms in the system. The university is a more sensible place than a political party for these two traditions to begin to discuss their differences and look for political synthesis.

A new left must start controversy across the land, if national policies and national apathy are to be reversed. The ideal university is a community of controversy, within itself and in its effects on communities beyond.

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

mila kunis posted:

stalin was POC


Правительства o' Совета

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

crickets are meat

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

Larry Parrish posted:

i don't consider stuff directly made for money to be art and classic art speculation is just another bourgeoisie perversion and not really anything to do with the actual physical art. :agesilaus:

one of my favorite dinner party trolls is to defend the idea that it is art only if the creator didn't profit from the creation (including opportunity cost).

so Van Gough is art since he never sold his art for more than it cost to make. however Warhol was just Applied Art.

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

is there a name for people who claim to be marxists but also think capitalism has won and any worker/socialist/communist revolution is impossible to occur ever in the future?

running into more and more people like that these days

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

mawarannahr posted:

I think it’s possible to conclude that without diverging from Marxism. Why do you need a special name for them? If an asteroid was certain to hit next week and someone expresses doubts over a worker’s revolution in that timeframe, it doesn’t make their claims to being Marxist any less or more valid. It’s hard to blame someone looking at the situation today and guessing that nothing we want will happen in time, and they might be right. I don’t think there’s anything better to fill up the remaining time but I’m also pretty sure we will fail.

I guess I'm more meaning the people who think that under any situation capitalism was inevitable and would always destroy all workers before they're able to do anything about it. A step beyond the asteroid scenario.

I'm just curious if there is an existing ideological line here within Marxist thinkers that also argued capitalism would ensure it was impossible for a worker's revolution to occur.

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

thotsky posted:

Is that not just a type of Doomerism? I would also count Marxists who have resigned themselves to propping up local centrists in elections or Anarchists who wish to keep a local social centre going as their political horizon as being Doomers in all but name.

as you're pointing out, doomerism isn't exactly a consistent ideological label.

i'm curious if there is a existing line of marxist thought that comes to the conclusion that capitalism was always going to prevent any worker's revolution or if it is really just the marxist flavor of non-ideological doomerism

mawarannahr posted:

Sounds like Herbert Marcuse tbh, but New Left (?) is a little outdated

thanks, i'll read into him a bit to start

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

AnimeIsTrash posted:

You'd think that someone who wrote papers in college would be able to cite said articles that prove his point. Lmao

(CIA World Factbook, 2002)

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

Flavius Aetass posted:

I mean, if the problem is that you don't like me probing Larry et al for calling people retards I can really only say you can gently caress off too and continue to do it.

You didn't say it. I just don't like you. User loses posting privileges for 6 hours.

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

Mr. Lobe posted:

This is why we don't like you. Probations like these. Don't pretend like you don't know why everyone closes ranks against you now.

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

Flavius Aetass posted:

I mean I also wish it wouldn't devolve into a meta argument and a bunch of gently caress yous and such every time I probe someone for using a slur but

maybe you shouldn't have probed the people who didnt say a slur then?

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

Ardennes posted:

As far as anti-imperalism and American workers being on the same side...that may not necessarily be the case. Remember the 1960s when organized labor was actually for the the Vietnam war?

Tbf, between the feds, the mob, and regular corruption, much of US organized labor in the 60s wasn’t exactly on the side of the American worker either

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

legit tho, like seems like we need one world government now more than ever.

even if we had communism-in-most-of-the-countries we couldnt just leave the capitalists to burn the earth in their remaining lands.

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Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

what if we made Communism on the Blockchain, but it was just Communism with random base64 strings attached to everything

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