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Jagchosis posted:So the benefit is that it has expanded China's regional power? No, it serves as a check against China's breathtakingly aggressive military expansion in the area. Chomskyan posted:There are significantly more people opposed to the move than in favor, yes. I don't agree that its the most pertinent statistic but that's fine. I don't see how it changes my point. 31/40 is probably within the MOE, so it doesn't support your point nearly as strongly.
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Jan 21, 2016 02:00
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lol, every adult american male is enrolled in the selective service system
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Jan 21, 2016 02:01
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Baloogan posted:lol, every adult american male is enrolled in the selective service system Yes, we are.
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Jan 21, 2016 02:03
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is there a statute of limitations on how long you can boss a country around after they attack you in a war and lose also is victory a prerequisite to the moral high ground in these situations or is it strictly an issue of self-defense
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Jan 21, 2016 02:03
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Baloogan posted:lol, every adult american male is enrolled in the selective service system And if America truly was a gender-equal nation, all women would be enrolled in selective service as well.
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Jan 21, 2016 02:03
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Chomskyan posted:They may, but even then any opposition party will face significant opposition from US allied beaurocrats. This is essentially why Yukio Hatoyama and the DPJ had to turn back on their promise to build the base outside of Okinawa. The US wont budge, and it has enough political allies in Japan to get its way. Yes democracies have opposition to basically any move in any direction. And?
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Jan 21, 2016 02:03
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It's a bit like how lovely republican governors and opinion polls don't get to decide whether we let refugees in the US.
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Jan 21, 2016 02:10
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Dazzling Addar posted:is there a statute of limitations on how long you can boss a country around after they attack you in a war and lose
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Jan 21, 2016 02:11
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I signed up for the SSS the day I turned 17.5 yrs old. Where is my loving parade???!
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Jan 21, 2016 02:15
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Baloogan posted:I signed up for the SSS the day I turned 17.5 yrs old. Where is my loving parade???! Yes, unfortunately the civilized world does take the fact that you have pledged your life to defend their societies for granted.
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Jan 21, 2016 02:16
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JeffersonClay posted:No, it serves as a check against China's breathtakingly aggressive military expansion in the area. Given the MOE is typically around +/- 3% for large national surveys you're probably wrong about this (also it's hard to imagine Asahi wouldn't have mentioned this if it was the case). Also the poll I mentioned is more relevant because it will include people who may personally agree with the Henoko relocation but also believe in respecting the opinion of the Okinawans. The conflict is as much about the latter as the former. Red and Black fucked around with this message at 02:44 on Jan 21, 2016 |
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Jan 21, 2016 02:23
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Chomskyan posted:They may, but even then any opposition party will face significant opposition from US allied beaurocrats. This is essentially why Yukio Hatoyama and the DPJ had to turn back on their promise to build the base outside of Okinawa. The US wont budge, and it has enough political allies in Japan to get its way. So you're saying the elected Japanese government supports the base?
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Jan 21, 2016 02:23
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Chomskyan posted:Given the MOE is typically around +/- 3% for large national surveys you're probably wrong about this. Also the poll I mentioned is more relevant because it will include people who may personally agree with the Henoko relocation but also believe in respecting the opinion of the Okinawans. The conflict is as much about the latter as the former. Hey OP, you've never addressed any of my points. Why do you want to kick thousands of black men out of Japan, eh?
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Jan 21, 2016 02:30
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My Imaginary GF posted:Hey OP, you've never addressed any of my points. OP is arguing for "states rights" without even a wink or nod about the implied racism.
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Jan 21, 2016 02:31
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Asian people can only be called out for their racism if it also somehow allows them to implicate whitey as well. On the left the Japanese especially are treated as Heisenburg's minority, attaining that status only when it's convenient.
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Jan 21, 2016 02:35
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EasternBronze posted:Yes, unfortunately the civilized world does take the fact that you have pledged your life to defend their societies for granted. Wow thank you for your service EasternBronze posted:Asian people can only be called out for their racism if it also somehow allows them to implicate whitey as well. Your weird sense of entitlement to east asia suggests that you may in fact be a racist white person
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Jan 21, 2016 02:39
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EasternBronze posted:So long as America is on the hook for defending Japan to the hilt with lives and wealth, I don't see why they shouldn't have a say in the political process. I don't disagree, but there is quite a difference between having a say, and basically having veto power over the expressed wishes of a country's citizenry. The US basically has the latter when it comes to this particular issue.
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Jan 21, 2016 02:40
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Baloogan posted:I signed up for the SSS the day I turned 17.5 yrs old. Where is my loving parade???! Thank you for your service. I, too, signed up for Selective Service when I was 17.
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Jan 21, 2016 02:45
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Jagchosis posted:Wow thank you for your service I speak three asian languages and I am willing to bet you speak none Puella Magi Madoka Magica doesn't count and have never lived anywhere within a thousand miles of here either. Am I getting warm? Chomskyan posted:I don't disagree, but there is quite a difference between having a say, and basically having veto power over the expressed wishes of a country's citizenry. The US basically has the latter when it comes to this particular issue. The "veto" is the end of the military alliance which would force Japan to take responsibility for it's own security, bringing with it a huge cost and alot of risks in exchange for soothing nationalist feelings among a fraction of their population. I don't doubt alot of people find the bases inconvenient and surely many people will grumble about it to a pollster, but if that pollster than hands them a rifle and says "report for training tomorrow at five" I think the responses will change pretty quick. Also, the "expressed wishes" of Japan is expressed through its lawfully elected government, which supports the bases.
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Jan 21, 2016 02:47
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EasternBronze posted:I speak three asian languages and I am willing to bet you speak none Puella Magi Madoka Magica doesn't count and have never lived anywhere within a thousand miles of here either. Am I getting warm? No you are not getting warm
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Jan 21, 2016 02:51
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Jagchosis posted:No you are not getting warm She has a loving family and best friends, laughs and cries from time to time… Madoka Kaname, an eighth grader of Mitakihara middle school, is one of those who lives such a life. One day, she had a very magical encounter. She doesn't know if it happened by chance or by fate yet. This is a fateful encounter that can change her destiny- This is a beginning of the new story of the magical witch girls Wow you seem like quite an expert on Japan! quote:~entitlement~ So are you saying that in the event that America were embroiled in some kind of crisis we would see Japanese people fighting and dying to assist us, even if the crisis was nowhere close to Japan? We already know the reverse is certainly true.
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Jan 21, 2016 02:53
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EasternBronze posted:So are you saying that in the event that America were embroiled in some kind of crisis we would see Japanese people fighting and dying to assist us, even if the crisis was nowhere close to Japan? You consider being registered for the selective service to be dying and fighting for Japan so I don't really know how to respond to this? Sure the Japanese can barely inconvenience themselves on our behalf?
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Jan 21, 2016 02:55
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Jagchosis posted:You consider being registered for the selective service to be dying and fighting for Japan so I don't really know how to respond to this? Sure the Japanese can barely inconvenience themselves on our behalf? No, it means that I'm bound to accept that possibility however remote and my tax dollars pay massive subsidies for Japan's security. This is why those bases are there, because at the end of the day Japan is getting a sweet deal and they know it, even if a few magical 8th graders are inconvenienced by dirty yankkkee GI's.
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Jan 21, 2016 02:56
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EasternBronze posted:So are you saying that in the event that America were embroiled in some kind of crisis we would see Japanese people fighting and dying to assist us, even if the crisis was nowhere close to Japan? If there's a war that Japan is involved in it would almost certainly be the US, not Japan that causes it (unless the US gets its way and Japan fully re-militarizes). In which case I'm not sure why you think they should be grateful.
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Jan 21, 2016 02:58
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Chomskyan posted:If there's a war that Japan is involved in it would almost certainly be the US, not Japan that causes it (unless the US gets its way and Japan fully re-militarizes). In which case I'm not sure why you think they should be grateful. Tell me more about China's Peaceful Rise(tm)
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Jan 21, 2016 03:03
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Chomskyan posted:If there's a war that Japan is involved in it would almost certainly be the US, not Japan that causes it (unless the US gets its way and Japan fully re-militarizes). In which case I'm not sure why you think they should be grateful. The only war Japan is ever going to be seriously involved in will be on their doorstep and you are insane if you think the Japanese won't be demanding American assistance. I'm sure the Japanese government will demand the bases be removed any day now.
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Jan 21, 2016 03:03
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EasternBronze posted:even if a few magical 8th graders are inconvenienced by dirty yankkkee GI's. Wow that is a dark definition of "inconveniencing" middle schoolers, but grats on owning me by googling the plot to an anime I like? EasternBronze posted:The only war Japan is ever going to be seriously involved in will be on their doorstep and you are insane if you think the Japanese won't be demanding American assistance. Oh professors talking poo poo is a CB now apparently
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Jan 21, 2016 03:03
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Chomskyan posted:Also the poll I mentioned is more relevant because it will include people who may personally agree with the Henoko relocation but also believe in respecting the opinion of the Okinawans. The conflict is as much about the latter as the former. People who support the military base but also want to respect okinawan opinion would rightly be classified as Undecided or other, 29% of the poll. The question you'd have us look at doesn't ask about the military base, it asks about Abe's handling of the issue. Considering his approval rating is around 40%, I'm not shocked that nearly 60 percent of the population thinks he mishandled the issue. Can we conclude those 60% also oppose the military base? No. When asked, only 40 percent oppose the base itself.
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Jan 21, 2016 03:05
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Jagchosis posted:Wow that is a dark definition of "inconveniencing" middle schoolers, but grats on owning me by googling the plot to an anime I like? Some criminals did a heinous crime and they were convicted of it, do you think rape is some kind of unheard of phenomenon in Japan outside of military bases? The race of the perpetrators had alot to do with this. I never said that your love of a story about magical middle-school girls makes you the absolute wrong kind of person to talk about these issues, but I can't help if other people in this thread start to feel that way. quote:Oh professors talking poo poo is a CB now apparently Any day now the elected government of Japan will be petitioning to have the bases removed...
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Jan 21, 2016 03:06
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Fojar38 posted:Tell me more about China's Peaceful Rise(tm) I think China's activities in the South China Sea are aggressive and unfair. But hey look at it this way China: Builds military bases on uninhabited artificial islands. Lays claim to resources in international waters that other countries also claim. US: Builds military bases on top of land stolen from locals included bulldozed residences and graveyards, or on top the habitats of endangered species. China: establishing military patrols in the South China Sea US: Military patrols throughout the Pacific and Atlantic oceans and has for decades Basically, you come across as a hypocrite critizing China but not the US Fojar.
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Jan 21, 2016 03:10
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I can totally understand why someone batting for the PRC would oppose US bases in Okinawa enough to make two identical threads about it
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Jan 21, 2016 03:11
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Fojar38 posted:I can totally understand why someone batting for the PRC would oppose US bases in Okinawa enough to make two identical threads about it ...because they are a communist paid pennies on the dollar to post anti-American propaganda online?
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Jan 21, 2016 03:12
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The United States is generally responsible for keeping sealanes open, responding to disasters and making sure everyone is able to use the ocean. China is not. I guess if the American navy were claiming control over waters within 30KM of France and Britain they might have a reason to complain. If you think China and the US are somehow morally the same or have similar goals you really don't know anything about China.
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Jan 21, 2016 03:13
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Fojar38 posted:I can totally understand why someone batting for the PRC would oppose US bases in Okinawa enough to make two identical threads about it You are a terrible poster. I am not batting for the PNC. You however are batting for the US, and a massive hypocrite
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Jan 21, 2016 03:13
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EasternBronze posted:Some criminals did a heinous crime and they were convicted of it, do you think rape is some kind of unheard of phenomenon in Japan outside of military bases? The race of the perpetrators had alot to do with this. What exactly do you think Japanese electoral politics are like? And the affected people, who you know should maybe have a say, can't challenge bases via other legal means because the courts and bureaucracy are all controlled by the LDP Also this thread is about the construction of another base not even abolishing of all bases you disingenuous twat.
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Jan 21, 2016 03:14
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Chomskyan posted:You are a terrible poster. I am not batting for the PNC. You however are batting for the US, and a massive hypocrite Everyone should bat for America, because we're so loving awesome. President Trump will make America great again by annexing all of Okinawa as territory of the United States.
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Jan 21, 2016 03:14
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Chomskyan posted:You are a terrible poster. I am not batting for the PNC. You however are batting for the US, and a massive hypocrite I guess once America claims its EEZ covers all of the Pacific and Atlantic oceans up to 30 km away from every other neighboring country that might be a reasonable comparison. Someone has to patrol the sea, who do you propose should do it? quote:What exactly do you think Japanese electoral politics are like? And the affected people, who you know should maybe have a say, can't challenge bases via other legal means because the courts and bureaucracy are all controlled by the LDP Last time I checked Japan didn't have a federal system and even if they did, negotiations with a foreign power are definitely in the purview of the national government. People do have a say, they vote for politicians who make the laws just like in the United States, Europe and elsewhere They get to do this in these countries because the United States fought to keep it that way. Just because every opinion poll doesn't get enacted at once drat the consequences doesn't mean the democratic system is illegitimate. The reality is most people in Japan are not going to bat over the Okinawan issue, they just don't care enough to actually do something about it. EasternBronze fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Jan 21, 2016 |
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Jan 21, 2016 03:15
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EasternBronze posted:I guess once America claims its EEZ covers all of the Pacific and Atlantic oceans up to 30 km away from every other neighboring country that might be a reasonable comparison. Lets do it. And sink all the drat Chinese pirates operating in our waters to bust up coral reefs.
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Jan 21, 2016 03:16
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Chomskyan posted:You are a terrible poster. I am not batting for the PNC. You however are batting for the US, and a massive hypocrite You claimed, with what I presume is complete sincerity, that any conflict on Japan's periphery would be started by the US, keeping in mind that Japan lives on the periphery of a country that routinely threatens to nuke it and another country that's been buzzing Japanese airspace and stalking Japanese waters for years now
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Jan 21, 2016 03:18
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The PLA released a video last summer of them pelting Japanese islands with missiles and then physically invading them But enough about that did you know that Amerikkka wakes up Okinawans with their jets
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Jan 21, 2016 03:19
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