Weldon Pemberton posted:

Because of the geographic distribution of overdoses, it seems more likely that strong painkillers are being prescribed for things other than cancer. Workplace injuries related to manual occupations. No one is going to fault someone slowly dying of agonizing cancer for slapping a fentanyl patch on every day, but someone with a moderate strain injury should at least be given weaker options at first. You want to save drugs this powerful for when it's clear there is no other option, because pulling the rug out from under people's feet after prescribing them is probably just going to lead to street drug use.

My Imaginary GF posted:

I was prescribed some opiates when I had my tonsils removed as a teen, and I didn't become a heroin addict. I don't see why the folk with oxycotin prescriptions can't give up their medication as well as teen me did.

Toasticle posted:

fade5 posted:

Oh yeah it's definitely an epidemic, I'm just mocking because the cries of how to deal with this drug epidemic are amazingly different from the old standby of "we have to be tough on drugs/lock them up for years", instead it's more treatment vs harsh punishment.

My Imaginary GF posted:

Have you considered that your addiction may also be straining your parent's relation? Which do you love more, your mother, or your addiction?

reagan posted:

I just sat in on a lunch presentation with a Pfizer rep paid physician shill giving a presentation on selling some lovely drug. Expect many more novel drug designs like this in a pathetic attempt to dissuade people getting high as gently caress.

But hey, free lunch.

Toasticle posted:

Because it's a psychopathic 'choice' whether it's being denied relief from pain or just wanting to get high, just give them the loving drug. If someone wants to die because they can't take the pain or it makes their lives less miserable you are hosed in the head if just giving them the drug isn't an option.

The guy I mentioned who lost his arm was suicidal because he was living in constant agony. As soon as he got the morphine pump installed he didn't want to die anymore. Every heroin addict I've known who just wanted to get high lead perfectly functional lives. Had jobs, were happy, they just chose opiates over say alcohol. I knew indirectly some addicts who didn't want to do anything but get high but the number who just wanted to be drunk 24/7 was five times higher. In both cases it was almost always because they had lovely lives and it was their escape. Let them be happy if that's what makes them happy.

What the gently caress is wrong with you?

My Imaginary GF posted:

You could always tend your own garden.

The_Book_Of_Harry posted:

If you can afford a spot with a yard (as a recovering addict), you probably will have a commute that requires a well-maintained, insured, registered vehicle.

Which means you need a steady job with decent pay.

There are more than a couple companies willing to take the risk of hiring employees "in recovery." Understandably, though, many of these companies want the applicant to have achieved years of stability.

This puts people in the sort of situation where I am...grinding at a low-wage job that barely makes ends meet. Eventually, I might be able to save for reinstating my license, buy a car/etc, but it's going to rely on my patience, thrift and health...not all of which is solely under my control. Many of my peers can do everything I am, still never escaping abject poverty.

Far too many people get where I am and say, "my situation is arguably worse than when I was strung out! I'm still overworked, stressed and broke...without my dope! I might as well go back to the needle...one last time...gently caress it!" And just that easily, the downward spiral returns.

Without some sort of HOPE or serious mindfulness practice, abstinence-alone is not enough to create meaning and value in people's lives.

My Imaginary GF posted:

Quite so. And, worst comes to worst, you can always plant a garden on public land and encamp rent-free near it.

OwlFancier posted:

That a failure in treatment produces a comparable result in behaviour by sufferers of a different condition would seem to be relevant to the discussion of opiate abuse as it lends credence to the idea that opiate abuse is not a moral failing but rather a social one.

kliksf posted:

The thing is there are people who want to use or abuse opiates they want to get whatever feeling or relief they can get from them. The ting these days with fentanyl is, not unlike with molly, there's a lot of stuff passed around that's sold as one thing, Xanax, vicodin or whatever and people make up bogus pills that are easy as gently caress to OD on.
http://www.sfgate.com/health/article/7th-death-in-Sacramento-County-linked-to-7221177.php
Pretty sure the dealers don't want to kill their customers so much as just give them enough for them to get high/not get sick and then they keep coming back but with fentanyl the difference between a recreational dose and an overdose is ridiculously small. If people are doing pills to get high they may not know if they're getting a "legit" Oxycodone, perhaps stolen from a pharmacy, or a pill made to look like it only instead of 30mgs of oxycodone you get filler and 50 micrograms of fentanyl.

ToxicSlurpee posted:

AA is actually pretty ineffective. Their recovery rates, last I heard, are better than people trying to get clean by themselves but not by much.

Addiction is very complex and has a ton of causes but that absolutely hits on common cycles of addiction and is something that people fail to understand. The very interesting thing is that most people who take opiates at some point don't get addicted to them. Think about people getting morphine after surgery; most people don't come down with an addiction to opiates and can just walk away and resume their lives once they've recovered. It turns out that a common thread is adequate support; people with good social circles, be they family or friends, that are willing to help them through rough patches, whatever they need, are far, far less likely to become addicts of any type.

However if you have a family that is pressuring you to be successful and telling you that you must accomplish X thing by Y age and why the gently caress do you still work at a restaurant? Is that all you want to be? Get with it, kid. What, you haven't planned out your whole life by 20? You don't want to be a doctor? What the gently caress is wrong with you, loser? it tends to lead toward stress which leads toward addiction.

This is why mental illness also leads toward addiction; that lack of societal support just fucks people up, makes them hate their lives, and they turn to addictions to feel better. It's also why addiction doesn't give a poo poo what social class you are.

Society is one of the biggest barriers to recover too. Once you are an addict society will happily discard you as worthless. It's your own fault; why should we help you?

jabby posted:

It's not really an issue over here. As OwlFancier said you can't advertise prescription drugs on TV, so you get less patients coming to you asking for something specific. Pharmaceutical companies are also forbidden to give gifts to doctors (they can provide lunch during a talk, that's about it) and sample pills would be pointless when all prescriptions cost the same under the NHS. We do still get presentations from pharma companies pushing their new drug, but they tend to focus on the research and trying to demonstrate why it's better than what we're doing at the moment. And they do get quizzed at those about how much their drug costs, since we all feel a bit of responsibility to use the cheapest options where possible.


The routine over here is that if a patient is still requiring strong opioids after their surgery, they probably aren't ready to go home. If it gets to a few days out and they are still requiring them, you need to ask what's going on. Even the pain from major surgery subsides surprisingly quickly if everything has gone well, so you don't get too many people complaining.

I don't think people from the UK are any tougher than Americans, but maybe it has something to do with attitudes towards pain from healthcare staff? We try and brace people to expect some discomfort after their surgery, and I have heard various specialist nurses asking patients outright 'What level of pain (from 1-10) would you consider acceptable?' If they answer 'zero' then they get their expectations adjusted. Obviously we want people comfortable, but sometimes stuff is going to hurt and trying to get to absolute painlessness is unrealistic.

EDIT: Actually since you mention it some surgeons are big fans of the idea that opioids make stuff harder to diagnose since they cover up the evidence. A valid point when you are dealing with post-op pain, but a lot of the old guard used to feel the same way about stuff like appendicitis to the point where they actually would complain if the patient got adequate pain relief. Thankfully we are getting over those 'too far the other way' attitudes.

Nosfereefer posted:

Like I thought it was an exaggeration, but they really hand out opiates and other heavies like they were candy in the US

[edit] I've had wisdom teeth pulled, and after the local anaesthetic to the gums I was told to take non-prescription pain killers like ibuprofen if the pain got too much. Getting overloaded with opiate based pills which you don't even need seems absurd. Or a junkie's wet dream I guess.

pangstrom posted:

That (along with a similar compound) is the stuff the Russians pumped into the theater to resolve a hostage situation in 2002
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis
not a terrible idea if they had given everyone naloxone afterwards but they didn't so lots of people died

KingEup posted:

https://twitter.com/StefanKertesz/status/854816331249725440

BarbarianElephant posted:

It's not much of a step from that to Duterte's "shoot addicts in the head" philosophy.

Fried Watermelon posted:

Do they think people just choose to become homeless?

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

“Well poo poo, I might get locked up. I’ve seen the error of my ways and won’t use.”*- every addict

*this is the same phenomenon that ended drunk driving

Lote posted:

Work requirements are going to kill people. Medicaid is how you pay for medications.

Technically you can get on disability for addiction but good luck going through that process if you’re actively addicted to drugs or alcohol.