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Cuzbruz posted:The whole line of thinking "Nobody gave a gently caress about drug abuse until it happened to white people" reads like it's straight out of /r/conspiracy. Kind of true, though? When it happens to Others the solution is prison, when it happens to Us the solution is compassion.
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Jan 26, 2016 15:30
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Ytlaya posted:I think one aspect of this problem is that many doctors are very ignorant about opioids and addiction. It's a very common belief among doctors, for example, than the medication tramadol (trade name Ultram I think) isn't addictive. This is complete and utter nonsense and objectively false, yet it is commonly believed by doctors because doctors generally believe whatever drug reps tell them. That's... weird because in the UK it's a little difficult to get tramadol, I've only ever gotten it from the main hospital, GPs generally prescribe codeine phosphate or something.
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Jan 26, 2016 18:57
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PT6A posted:That's ridiculous. If I knew I was going to die, not only would I use whatever painkillers I could get, but I'd become addicted to every other substance as well, because why the hell not? You better believe I'm gonna smoke 2 packs a day if I know I'm dying in a few months anyway. Pride is often terminal.
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Jan 27, 2016 00:54
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PT6A posted:But what's there to be proud of? I moderate my alcohol intake and I quit smoking cigarettes because they're bad for my health and impair my ability to function in society. If those things stopped being issues, the mere fact of physical dependence on a substance and/or addiction wouldn't faze me in the least. Addicts are bad people, I don't want to be a bad person, so I can't be an addict, addicts are weak and pathetic, I'm better than them, I might be dying but I can die with dignity etc etc. The word has a stigma attached to it. Much like criminal, despite most people breaking the law.
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Jan 27, 2016 01:06
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My Imaginary GF posted:If you wish for quality prescription drugs, perhaps you should purchase an insurance policy which does not negotiate prices on "used" drugs. Libertarian thread is that way.
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Mar 8, 2016 10:18
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Drugs are not expensive enough to merit being reused, if you object to paying a lot for them there are better solutions to that.
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Mar 9, 2016 14:20
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It would not generally be euthanasia if you didn't offer it and secure consent. If you just go around killing people that's not generally called euthanasia.
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Mar 15, 2016 19:31
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MIGF may not actually be human.
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Mar 15, 2016 22:19
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Cugel the Clever posted:I'm honestly surprised to find that assisted suicide is controversial on SA. As ToxicSlurpee stated, it's not a service that is provided on a whim to someone who's at a low point. A mandated waiting period plus some measure to ensure the individual is competent to make the decision for themselves would make sense. Assisted suicide in many cases is something I would expect you to find significant support for. However "encourage the addicted to kill themselves" as a first response to a growing addiction problem, is not something you will find much support for, and if you cannot see why, I'm not sure if I can begin to explain it to you.
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Mar 18, 2016 00:13
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Cugel the Clever posted:Are you guys confusing me with MIGF? Cugel the Clever posted:Watching the Frontline episode on the Opiode epidemic and it's reaffirmed my I'm not entirely sure how else to read that "social programs should be offering to put junkies out of their suffering" on the basis it would "save everyone involved a lot of pain, time, and money" and be better for the community.
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Mar 18, 2016 00:56
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Your Dunkle Sans posted:Why do American pharmaceuticals get away with drug commercials on cable TV and the like? As far as I know, it's a uniquely American phenomenon and a really strange one at that. You would think a great many things about the American healthcare system would not be the way they are but yet they remain so.
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Mar 18, 2016 02:28
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MaxxBot posted:Do you not view death as an inherently bad thing? That's the only way I can start to make sense of your view here. It manifestly isn't in many people's view otherwise they wouldn't kill themselves. There is a difference between saying "euthanasia as a first resort is loving stupid" and "we should try as hard as we can to prevent people killing themselves by all means we have available" Because what almost invariably happens is you end up in a position where suicide is discouraged but the conditions of living are not improved. There is a rather stark disconnect with how people direct their concern towards the suicidal, living in misery is afforded far more leeway than actively trying to kill yourself. If you want people not to kill themselves you must provide a good reason for them not to want to, reactionary measures to prevent suicide are rather suspect because they have a remarkable tendency to extend no further than keeping the suicide statistics low.
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Mar 26, 2016 18:20
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SedanChair posted:If being suicidal is not mental illness, nothing is. And maybe nothing is, but that strikes me as something of a separate debate. I don't think it's automatically mental illness to consider the conditions of your life to be so poor that the act of living does not seem worth it. As Guavanaut mentioned we have a wonderfully swept under the rug problem in the UK at the moment that the government is arbitrarily cutting support for the disabled and then the disabled kill themselves, because without that support their lives become unlivable. I don't think they're mentally ill, I think they're quite rational in judging that they need a thing to live a life they judge worth living, and that the thing has been taken away and they don't have the power to get it back, so their life is now not worth living in their judgement. Unless you believe that life is inherently good or something rather than simply being the state in which good or bad can happen to a person, your assertion doesn't make much sense.
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Mar 26, 2016 20:50
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Cugel the Clever posted:...the gently caress? The only ones who have said that are you, SedanChair, and a handful of other semi-literate, try-hard "Woe-Is-Me"-ers. I made it very loving clear in my original post that assisted suicide is an option that should be available to those who might desire it, not a death sentence imposed on the mentally ill, you shitbags. Every post that has followed it has reemphasized that point, and there are plenty of people in this thread who have expanded on my original point very eloquently. You didn't at all say that in your OP, you said that people should be offering to kill addicts because it's easier for everyone.
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Mar 27, 2016 05:49
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Cugel the Clever posted:Watching the Frontline episode on the Opiode epidemic and it's reaffirmed my Your words, not mine.
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Mar 27, 2016 06:00
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That a failure in treatment produces a comparable result in behaviour by sufferers of a different condition would seem to be relevant to the discussion of opiate abuse as it lends credence to the idea that opiate abuse is not a moral failing but rather a social one.
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Apr 1, 2016 21:36
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My Imaginary GF posted:So what's the best way to structure and run a rehab program? Imagine you had $10 million and authority to implement the processes you'd like to see. Immediately demand more money because $10m is a paltry sum. Assuming you gave me the required money, relocate the person to a controlled facility where they can be looked after, and be given controlled, clean doses of whatever they're addicted to. Work with the individual to figure out how their addiction works, what triggers their desire to use, and then work with them to figure out alternate solutions. Reduce their dosage as practical to minimise withdrawal, keep working to build and reinforce new behavior patterns which don't center around reliance on their drug. Also look to address any issues which contribute to their condition such as depression or chronic pain or anxiety or anything else that they feel they need some escape from, whatever it is that they use their drug to help deal with. Once their addiction is under control, work with them to get them rehoused and re-employed, possibly with support payments to keep them on their feet while they adjust to a working and more independent life, continue to offer counseling and other support, including drug doses if they need it, because encouraging people to relapse outside of the program will make it harder to help them if they do. Remove the reasons to use, work to minimize the withdrawal, and work to help the person develop solutions which work better. If you can't do those then I would suggest that you will have difficulty fixing addiction, because continued use seems like a rational choice under those circumstances. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Apr 2, 2016 |
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Apr 2, 2016 19:16
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Well, yeah, the point is to take a behavior that is detrimental to a person and help them change it. Though I suppose with prison it's also a greater focus on the danger they present to others. Therapy, rehab, and corrections should all really be considered to intersect quite a bit. As to why people use you could probably just ask the people who do. Personally I never have used anything but that's entirely because alcohol does nothing for my depression and I really don't think drugs would help. If I did find something that helped I'd probably use it because there's not really much else available and wanting to spend all your time asleep is no way to live. Maybe I would avoid it because I've had enough family smoke and drink themselves to death, maybe not. If my circumstances changed and I didn't have other things to turn to, I probably would. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Apr 2, 2016 |
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Apr 2, 2016 19:46
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My Imaginary GF posted:Sounds like a desperate need for some tort reforms so that you can deny an addict another useless medical test which wastes everyone's time and money. Possibly gently caress the public healthcare system for not providing them another way to treat their condition?
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Apr 4, 2016 18:10
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I remember when I had a toothache it took me 48 hours of being awake in agony before I could get someone to give me decent painkillers. Apparently when you're sitting in a chair sweating and shaking and looking like death, doctors don't like giving you drugs. Whodathunkit.
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Apr 4, 2016 18:36
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My Imaginary GF posted:Like god, government helps those who help themselves. The public healthcare system, in response to the will of the American electorate, provides addicts with several viable, evidence-based pathways for treatment. Addicts should not be able to get away with wasting everyone else's time and tax dollars with useless costs as they attempt to lie their way to unpaid treatment. Wouldn't it be easier to just hand out clean pharmaceutical grade drugs to anyone who wants them, and save all that time and money with the doctor, then I wonder?
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Apr 4, 2016 18:49
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Then perhaps a happy middle ground where if someone shows up clearly just wanting drugs you can just give them drugs and a referral to a rehab program, then they don't need to keep coming and getting you to do tests they don't need.
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Apr 4, 2016 18:54
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My Imaginary GF posted:Yes, isn't this what already happens for those of means? Those without means, we have a publicly funded rehab system: its called jail. Not really very good at it though.
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Apr 4, 2016 19:14
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Can't I get funds through other people's hard work instead to spend on drugs like a normal bourg?
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Apr 4, 2016 20:53
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Tias posted:[citation needed] That AA is about as effective as doing it yourself doesn't mean it's effective for the same people. A 5% success rate or whatever is still helpful so long as it's not the same 5% who succeed alone.
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Apr 5, 2016 20:29
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I uh, think people who have a sense of learned helplessness would probably fit right in with AA tbh.
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Apr 5, 2016 22:49
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Your Dunkle Sans posted:jabby: as a doctor, do you see Big Pharma in bed with prescribing doctors in the UK as much as we see in the US (i.e. giving away branded merchandise and sample pills, taking doctors out to dinner and lobbying, etc)? Do you get the same barrage of pharmaceutical commercials on TV? Having been to several countries in Europe and Asia, this seems to be primarily an American phenomenon. You can't advertise pharmaceuticals on TV in the UK as far as I know. Unless it's over the counter stuff. Prescription drugs are not advertised on TV at all here, it's kind of weird that you do it in America. You get what the doctor thinks you need, not what you want. And what's available is determined by what the NHS will buy, usually cheap out-of-patent stuff where possible.
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Apr 7, 2016 12:23
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My Imaginary GF posted:And how does such a system prevent racial and class disparity in its healthcare provision? It doesn't; it institutionalizes discrimination. gently caress that bullshit. What? You can go to the doctor if you're black over here, and if you're poor. You just go, you get treated, you go home? Same as the rich people, although the rich people probably fork out the arse for private healthcare that still subcontracts back to the NHS for anything serious. Also, like, all our doctors are Indian or Pakistani. So I don't think they're going to be especially racist against anybody but white people.
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Apr 7, 2016 20:40
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You know some people use the idea of being able to go to a hospital and order infinite drugs as an argument against universal healthcare. But I'm beginning to see why they might think that if you can actually go and do that in America... Are American hospitals like... some sort of weird unlimited chemist that also offer surgery and beds? Who the gently caress just goes into a hospital and asks for drugs? I literally cannot get my head properly around the idea that you can just buy medical services in America even if you don't need them.
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Apr 8, 2016 00:05
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computer parts posted:So the rich have issues with healthcare in the US? That seems strange. You can easily be rich enough to live well in a not-very-rich country and be completely floored by healthcare costs in the US.
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Apr 9, 2016 18:25
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I think I got some kind of morphine when I went to the hospital for appendicitis. Spent the majority of christmas eve puking and rolling around with stomach cramps but whatever they gave me made me go incredibly dizzy halfway through the syringe and I spent the rest of the night grinning at the wall in a wheelchair waiting to be x rayed.
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May 30, 2016 00:45
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reagan posted:You can't regift drugs after they've left the pharmacy. Unit dose maybe, but even then it varies. Takeback programs are only now expanding beyond law enforcement. Until very recently pharmacies were not allowed to take controlled substances back. That's a bit odd because where I live I think just about any pharmacy will accept drugs for disposal. You could do what my granny used to do I guess and dissolve them then flush them but it's probably not very good for the water supply.
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Jun 2, 2016 02:07
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Considering she had enough painkillers stashed to depopulate an entire wildlife park full of elephants I'm pretty glad we took them to the pharmacy then when she died.
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Jun 2, 2016 03:22
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Possibly because America has an enormous for-profit medical and pharmaceutical industry which are heavily in bed with both each other and the government.
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Jun 6, 2016 20:44
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I'm not sure he's likely to do anything good because his response to everything is to find someone to blame for it and then find a way to punish them.
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Jan 21, 2017 19:15
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KingEup posted:Who is to blame when someone abuses their horsepower? The dealer who sold the car in the first place? Should the dealer have been more careful about who he sold the car to? Should he have interogated the buyer to see whether he/she had a history of abusing their horsepower? Surely a sane dealer would try to reduce the numbers of motor vehicles they sold so less people would abuse their horsepower. I wonder if there might be a difference betwen the relationship betwen a car salesman and customer and doctor and patient? Can you possibly think of any?
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Jan 28, 2017 22:38
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KingEup posted:Most of the people who end up dead or addicted are using pills prescribed for someone else. This is not iatrogenic addiction. Presumably if the original patient has sufficient lack of need for them that they are making their way into other people's hands that still indicates a problem with overprescription.
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Jan 30, 2017 16:33
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FreshlyShaven posted:Not necessarily. Imagine for instance a pain patient living off of disability who sells some of his pills on the black market so he can afford to pay rent and bills. The prescription may be perfectly responsible given the severity of his pain but as long as he needs an extra source of income to survive and as long as those pills fetch a high price on the black market, diversion is going to continue to be a problem. Or think of an old cancer patient whose junky/dealer grandson or caretaker steals some of her pills and replaces them with Advils. Then of course there's always robbery, though I doubt that accounts for as much diversion as the former two scenarios. Not necessarily in all cases no, my grandmother was in broadly the former case though she didn't sell any of her excess as much as hoard them in case she wanted to kill herself. But from what I understand with American prescribing habits, a large portion of cases are doctors prescribing hideously strong opiates to take home for everything. For things that you would be told to take over the counter paracetamol or be kept in hospital for in the UK.
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Jan 30, 2017 16:56
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Mm, the considered response to receiving inadequate medical treatment should not be to abandon the concept of medicine.
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Feb 27, 2017 22:38
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wrong thread
OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 22:38 on May 27, 2017 |
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May 27, 2017 22:32
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