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AstheWorldWorlds posted:I know you think this kind of rhetorical move is clever, but it's just Christian sophistry and a transparent dodge. These are question of class. You understand neither the dignity of work or the immediacy of the need for justice. Not understanding those things is deadly to possible ways forward right now.
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Mar 4, 2017 16:42
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AstheWorldWorlds posted:Mike Rowe's terrible SWEAT pledge: Again that I described as garbage. I have a toddler, he would have comprehended that by this point, hell he'd have gotten it the second time I made it. But enough arguing with an idiot. The shipping line ZIM is pulling off the west coast. Just heard from a Chief officer that the next voyage will be the last calling of west coast ports for vessel on the service. They canned office staff over a month ago in my area. Several months back they sold thier ships to a bank and chartered them. I've seen it explicitly stated the intention is for them to shrink down to a regional Mediterranean carrier. This is a slow motion controlled failure. It won't likely make the news (because it's happening slowly) but it's another container line failing. Expect more if there is a border adjustment.
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Mar 4, 2017 18:43
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Goa Tse-tung posted:where? I just hit https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3761067&userid=9123 and you never said it directly? Trump thread, AstheWorldWorlds felt strongly enough to bring the discussion here. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3797481&pagenumber=3&perpage=40#post469974036 I straight up call Rowe's worldview garbage. AstheWorldWorlds, are you the Putin apologist I called a liar or was that somebody else? I should look for that thread.
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Mar 4, 2017 19:36
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AstheWorldWorlds posted:Also I don't believe I have ever commented on Putin or Russia, so weird of you to bring it up. Actually if you look at my post history I have backed you up on more than one occasion regarding this stuff. It was someone else. I piss enough people off I can't keep track anymore. Lets cut this poo poo to the core. I'm saying it's good to give a gently caress about what we do in the world, our work regardless of what it is. Do you think that's worth doing or not?
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Mar 4, 2017 20:30
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AstheWorldWorlds posted:What you are saying is true only if the labor is not coerced and is given willingly and not under duress, any conditions but these subject the broad mandate to do good work up to the context this is being applied to. Have you ever watched Bridge Over the River Kwai? Even in that situation there is something deeply human in finding meaning in work even if it is forced and detrimental to our own ends, and even if one ends up pushing the plunger blowing it all up. This something that strongly motivates a good percentage of people, to the point of it being a fundamental part of thier identity. It's dangerous to just toss it out as protestant work ethic.
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Mar 4, 2017 21:10
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The best verse from the best book. But two words from it have been bugging me, time and chance. There is a hell of a lot of time and chance in play now.AstheWorldWorlds posted:I would prefer to discuss history, not fictional movies. If you want to discuss the Burma-Siam railway then I am open to that. There was nothing good or noble in that work, including the 100k+ it killed. Anything good out of that is merely incidental and to be taken in the context of thousands of humans bring ground up so a malevolent empire could have better communications to continue a campaign of murdering millions. It ( the movie) was a likely shared example that communicated the idea. I was angrier at you than I should have been, I had you confused with someone else. Cerebral Bore posted:I know I'm pointing out the obvious, but it's much easier to exploit someone if they think you are in it together. Being able to convince people that what they do has meaning is the most dangerous thing in the world. It's also fundamentally nesissary to any progress.
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Mar 5, 2017 05:08
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People's need for a "loving thing to do in this world" is as nesissary to them as food or shelter. They will do things as desperate to get it as if they didn't have food. Fascism and racism are the equivalent of boiling leather and wall paper to eat. Well that's not fair to boiling leather to eat. They're more the last ditch desperate cannabalism. Our economic systems must account for this need. What has been bugging me is the widespread attitude of "lol nothing matters in D&D". The need for meaning, and something to do in the world, well one's giving a poo poo can contribute, can start, to meet that need in others. The response of hurr "protestant work ethic", to ignore this real need people have, and is part of what lets Rowe's list and even Trump's crap flourish. They are the garbage that people will fufill thier needs with if something healthy isn't availible.
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Mar 6, 2017 02:14
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A Buttery Pastry posted:You aren't looking that far back. Where it's hovering now is around the floor it reached when the financial crisis hit, it has been significantly higher than that both before and after. (Though going even further back they return to somewhere around that floor again.) Didn't people mention earlier in the thread that some shipping companies probably won't be able to keep going at these prices? I've been talking about container lines, it is a different market. Bulk is breathing a little easier than it was a few years ago. It's not strong by any means. There are more and smaller carriers on the bulk side. When one fails it is not as big, a deal as a container line failing. But a demand drop would hurt bulk too.
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Mar 7, 2017 21:49
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Squalid posted:I recommend you get a copy of the book The Intelligent Investor by Benjamin Graham, your gut feelings are not your friend. You will never successfully time the market. Best advice and best book on the subject.
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Mar 8, 2017 05:48
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MiddleOne posted:The problem with the shipping index is that it can just easily be predicated on an oversupply of shipping as it is a lack of demand. If shipping companies increase capacity because they overestimate a demand increase then the index goes down, even if demand is still at healthy levels. That it's lower than 2008 in isolation doesn't really tell me anything, Complicating matters further, shipyard overcapacity reinforces vessel overcapacity. When demand for new vessels falls, shipyards drop new build prices to keep operating and then owners keep buying!
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Mar 8, 2017 06:41
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Xibanya posted:
Even if the employer could make more for shareholders money hiring better workers at higher price.
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Mar 16, 2017 17:16
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wages settle at the lowest rate at which an employer anticipates an employee with the desired attributes will be willing to sell their labor to the employer
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Xibanya posted:As thekingfish pointed out, that's covered by "with the desired attributes." Let's say the employer wants to hire the best ever worker. They will still attempt to pay the lowest wage the best ever worker will be willing to accept. Here when I say wage this also covers non-monetary forms of compensation, like catering to the capricious whims of a superstar actor on set. If Brad Pitt doesn't have the expectation of getting his latte or whatever he's probably not going to give his best performance or worse still, not want to sell his labor to that studio. If a company is tossing oodles of money at someone and it isn't some kind of corruption/embezzlement, it's because they think they have to in order to prevent that person from disengaging or quitting. I would say that in many lower level jobs they are just looking for bodies. Desired attributes in some cases is basically just "not a felon". Often the felons they fire for not disclosing are some of thier better workers. At the lowest level, they see all workers as interchangeable. I don't think it's a question of getting the best for the least, they only care about the least part. They can't even be arsed to be exploitive effectively.
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Mar 16, 2017 23:47
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Raenir Salazar posted:So why did the major steel production move to China? Weren't those facilities *massive* and expensive to build in the first place? Or did they not actually move and just got upgraded and as a result didn't need 90% of those workers anymore? As someone else noted US steel production hasn't precipitatouly fallen off. What has happened is about the same amount is made in far fewer, but significantly larger mills, that require orders of magnitude fewer people. So mills closed all over and the labor used has shrunk to nothing, but we still make it.
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Mar 17, 2017 16:46
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Orange Devil posted:Which makes perfect sense because as prices decrease logistics costs make up a larger percentage of total cost meaning the tipping point for producing (semi-)locally versus shipping heavy bulk goods halfway across the globe (and in extreme cases, shipping the raw materials the other way first) shifts in the direction of (semi-)locally. The logistics costs are also imbalanced... an example it's easy to move the raw materials on the Lakes within the us. Self unloaders load pellets in Duluth and discharge in the various mills on the Lakes. That's shockingly efficient. But coils and slabs are hard to move out. Normally else where they would end up on general purpose handy sized ships. It's hard for those vessels to move on the Lakes because of a bunch of rules and the locks. So much of the coils and slabs end up on barges. That's good for anything on the Mississippi, but it's hard for export because eventually they have to get transloaded into a general cargo vessel. Meanwhile foreign mills are on the ocean, coils can directly be loaded onto general purpose ships to go anywhere. Steel products are problematic to containerize too. done improperly they shift and gently caress the containers up.
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Mar 17, 2017 17:02
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ToxicSlurpee posted:If memory serves it's because Chinese steel has often been kind of "meh" in that they just wanted to make more steel, quality and type be damned, while American manufacturers would often make more specialized/better steel. "Steel" is a pretty complex set of goods. Some of it in America was also vertical integration. If your car/tool/widget company also owns the steel company that you can totally, absolutely control the steel that comes out of it. "Buy steel from China" may or may not get you what you need. Chinese steel ships corrode and age noticeably faster, anecdotally like twice as fast. I notice it personally, you can usually tell on the bulk carriers even before you get up the gangway.
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Mar 18, 2017 05:48
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G20 just dropped its commitment to free trade.
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Mar 19, 2017 02:59
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I'm hearing anecdotally from sales guys on the bulk side that there is about a 50% chance China "slams the door" on grain in retaliation if it happens. Have heard the same about Mexico.
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Mar 22, 2017 01:54
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Zyklon B Zombie posted:Can anyone else in the world even pick up the slack off the sheer volume of food exports that the United States produces? I was under the impression that the US was one of the few countries that had a huge surplus of food. In any given year there is a drought, fire, flooding of farms somewhere, and sometimes it happens here. What happens is that grain from previous years in stocks goes onto market. Often it is of lower quality even if it is of the same grade. For short periods this works pretty well. For long periods... well I don't really know
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Mar 23, 2017 04:58
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So I was going through the old (2012) NIC 2030 alternate worlds estimate. https://globaltrends2030.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/global-trends-2030-november2012.pdf I was doing this to use the "potential worlds" to make some projections for a grad school class. Any way up at the front it had some "black swan" events that could potentially severely gently caress up the world. I'm not feeling good about a bunch: Much More Rapid Climate Change Euro/EU Collapse US Disengagement I think we are in for worse than a normal recession: "Stalled Engines is nevertheless a bleak future. Drivers behind such an outcome would be a US and Europe that turn inward, no longer interested in sustaining their global leadership. Under this scenario, the euro zone unravels quickly, causing Europe to be mired in recession. The US energy revolution fails to materialize, dimming prospects for an economic recovery. In the modeling which McKinsey Company did for us for this scenario, global economic growth falters and all players do relatively poorly."
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Mar 23, 2017 05:09
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That's some funny poo poo because it's happened to the Auto industry before. Not something like it that exact same thing. You think they'd learn. It's literally a textbook example.
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Mar 23, 2017 23:10
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call to action posted:Krugman can go gently caress himself, he effortlessly pivots from "we needed more recovery spending, we're in a liquidity trap, workers need help" to "gently caress these WHITE MEN for voting for Trump, economics says they deserve to die" Pretty butt hurt there wasn't any real math or evidence behind Bernie's economic plan huh? Because that's pretty straw there.
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Apr 11, 2017 15:16
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Appealing to the consensus of reasonable experts is a different beast than an appeal to authority.
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Apr 11, 2017 17:54
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uncop posted:To paraphrase Steve Keen, mainstream economists aren't experts on the economy, they're experts on a model of the economy that doesn't apply to the real economy. Pointing this out is like pointing out everyone has an rear end in a top hat. It's true, but not a particularly earth shattering arguement. Assholes (like models, or ideologies) do vary by quality and condition. That's the place to do real meaningful criticism. Things like that hemmroid is sticking out or you need to wipe more (this or that assumption is garbage). Just saying it's an rear end in a top hat, not so meaningful. Bar Ran Dun fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Apr 11, 2017 |
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Apr 11, 2017 18:52
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uncop posted:Actually models are supposed to apply to the thing they're describing. Like, it's completely different when your model produces slightly incorrect predictions due to some simplifications and when your model predicts the opposite of reality. (For example, seeing "The Great Moderation" as a sign of increasing stability instead of an incoming debt crisis, or predicting that austerity increases private spending) It's interesting that you pick this example: "predicting that austerity increases private spending" when we were taking about Krugman. That might have been a bad choice. But the truth is I don't disagree about the problems with the basic underlying assumptions of the models. But I think there are other things going on and the larger problem are economists that ignore data and reality and stick to the model in the face of data that disagrees. Again this is to say I don't nesissarily disagree with you about economics in general. But again one will find Krugman had quite a bit too say about that particular issue too.
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Apr 11, 2017 22:47
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AstheWorldWorlds posted:Isn't the rate something like only 30% make it to the ten year mark? Not all of them are run to have the business make money either. One can run a small business in a way that sort of channels money around.
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Apr 13, 2017 18:18
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U.S. Trade Partners Watch Warily as Trump Considers Steel Tariffs https://nyti.ms/2tUAJxZ More on potential steel tariffs in the times today.
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Jul 8, 2017 03:26
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Wowza, another good chart: Our Broken Economy, in One Simple Chart https://nyti.ms/2uB0FLy
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Aug 9, 2017 03:14
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If you were an investor would you tolerate a 1% return per year over 34 years? Those at 6% income growth per year are almost going to get three doublings of income over 34 years. Kind of makes that 39% increase over 34 years look like a real pile of poo poo doesn't it?
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Aug 12, 2017 05:01
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wateroverfire posted:Why is the increase in inequality a more important point than the improvement of living standards for everyone? 1. Power in our society. This change the relative power between groups. It's driving democracy into oligarchy. It's the authoritarianism hidden within freedom that can/might kill freedom. 2. People perceive relatively. If in relative terms they are falling behind, then that is perceived as no progress. If there is no perception of progress then people's outlooks become radical. Radicals will draw a clear line delineating where things should go no further. That line is often historically drawn between the head and shoulders, or in camps (eg Crowsbeak). One can see in here in these forums already.
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Sep 20, 2017 22:47
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Crowsbeak posted:2. Hey look explain to me why someone who has been given plenty of evidence that being a greedy poo poo is bad and does it anyways doesn't need some physical encouragement to drop it? Did Robespierre keep his head?
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Sep 21, 2017 00:22
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Well that pretty clearly illustrates the point I was making to Wateroverfire. Crowsbeak where does all this put you relative to the cross?
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Sep 21, 2017 00:47
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