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Saying "I am an [x]" is most definitely a choice, because it's self-identification into a group. Someone who doesn't think about religion at all might technically be "atheist" but they're not the people thought of when the name comes up.
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Jan 22, 2016 17:36
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TheImmigrant posted:Epistemologically, atheism requires as much a leap of faith as deism or theism do. From evidential and logical standpoints, agnosticism is the only defensible position. Atheism is just not believing in god, it doesn't make any positive claims. There's no leap of faith, just hearing religion stories and going "nahh". Agnosticism is a belief on whether or not it can be known at all. People usually use the word agnostic when they actually mean: I'm atheist (am not convinced of god), but I'm not like dick dawkins.
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Jan 22, 2016 17:41
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As a moderate atheist I feel it is my duty to reject and denounce Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins.
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Jan 22, 2016 17:45
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many johnnys posted:People usually use the word agnostic when they actually mean: I'm atheist (am not convinced of god), but I'm not like dick dawkins. I dont really think that words can be used to define feelings because feelings arent felt in words
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Jan 22, 2016 17:52
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TEAYCHES posted:As a moderate atheist I feel it is my duty to reject and denounce Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins. Why?
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Jan 22, 2016 17:53
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whoflungpoop posted:I dont really think that words can be used to define feelings because feelings arent felt in words I think they can, though, because both words and feelings are made up.
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Jan 22, 2016 18:24
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TheImmigrant posted:Why? Because they loving suck and are retards.
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Jan 22, 2016 18:47
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TEAYCHES posted:Because they loving suck and are retards. Your life must be exhausting with all that rejecting and denouncing you have to do.
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Jan 22, 2016 19:18
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TheImmigrant posted:Your life must be exhausting with all that rejecting and denouncing you have to do. Your life must be boring being a worthless piece of poo poo.
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Jan 22, 2016 19:21
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atheism is the end of a long process of cultural and social degeneration it is still up to the individual though, to some extent
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Jan 22, 2016 19:25
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TEAYCHES posted:Your life must be boring being a worthless piece of poo poo. I wish I could be an Intellectual like you.
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Jan 22, 2016 19:28
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TheImmigrant posted:I wish I could be an Intellectual like you. 
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Jan 22, 2016 19:34
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I am an atheist. Science is my rifle. Intellect is my blade. Care to do battle? Yeah. Didn't think so. 
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Jan 22, 2016 19:34
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Thump! posted:I am an atheist. Science is my rifle. Intellect is my blade. Care to do battle? nvm i dont carry on
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Jan 22, 2016 20:38
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les fleurs du mall posted:for those of you saying atheism isn't a choice: Because determinism is depressing and it's nice to pretend it doesn't exist for the purposes of giving people poo poo. TEAYCHES posted:Because they loving suck and are retards. Case in point.
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Jan 22, 2016 20:57
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To me, there are open atheists, liars, the ignorant, and the mentally ill or disabled. So no, it's not a choice. Rehabilitation of a theist is akin to therapy for an addict or PTSD victim; it requires a lot of work and help to cure. I find comparing theistic options to sexuality a bit offensive. It could offer validation to theists or sexual bigots depending on how it's read.
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Jan 22, 2016 21:14
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Moxie posted:To me, there are open atheists, liars, the ignorant, and the mentally ill or disabled. So no, it's not a choice. Rehabilitation of a theist is akin to therapy for an addict or PTSD victim; it requires a lot of work and help to cure. You jerk off to anime.
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Jan 22, 2016 21:17
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TEAYCHES posted:As a moderate atheist I feel it is my duty to reject and denounce Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins. Richard Dawkins is actually brilliant, but he's also a troll and very dishonest in the way he conducts himself and certainly doesn't argue in good faith.
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Jan 22, 2016 21:22
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Gonna go with him being a retard imo.
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Jan 22, 2016 21:23
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TEAYCHES posted:You jerk off to anime. that was subversive in the the way a 6th grader is subversive
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Jan 22, 2016 21:33
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whoflungpoop posted:Haha no atheists dont really do those things much better than anyone else, they just like to pat themselves on the back for eliminating 20 blatantly wrong answers on a billion choice test Yeah I get this I guess I'm more of an antitheist/agnostic. Seriously, religious people, cut that poo poo out.
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Jan 22, 2016 21:34
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Nail Rat posted:Richard Dawkins is actually brilliant, but he's also a troll and very dishonest in the way he conducts himself and certainly doesn't argue in good faith. He's also fallen off of that evolutionary biology research thing and spends his time on twitter being an rear end in a top hat. Like, the things he was saying about Ahmed Mohamed were indistinguishable from Freep posts.
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Jan 22, 2016 21:42
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I guess what you believe in kindof isn't a choice. I could choose to eg attend church, but I would need some kind of re-evaluation or persuasion to actually believe in god. It's not like homosexuality though because evidence and persuasion evidently can change people's beliefs, in a way that they cannot change sexuality.
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Jan 22, 2016 22:00
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I'm gay for atheism, personally.
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Jan 22, 2016 22:05
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Actually, everyone's natural state is Hindu. Sure, you can pick your patron and your convenient flavor of beliefs, but worst case scenario you'll still get tossed back in the blender in a century at most and pop out as a Lithuanian peasant in 1525.
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Jan 23, 2016 00:10
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Atheism is a choice, nobody is born an atheist. People like to equivocate between meanings of the word atheist, but there is a difference in being an atheist like Richard Dawkins and being an atheist in the sense that an inanimate object such as a shoe is an atheist. As much as some human beings want to claim that their atheism is similar to a shoe, they are being disingenuous. Anybody that can articulate the claim that they are an atheist can never be a shoe, because their claim is only comprehensible within a large social and contextual framework. To say otherwise is to make the claim that in an empty universe, devoid of life or matter, atheism would still exist.
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Jan 23, 2016 00:28
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les fleurs du mall posted:for those of you saying atheism isn't a choice: Atheism is a time-tested, naturally-occurring thoughtform that appears in any person who'd rather inject rationality and healthy amounts of skepticism into their world and their own psycho-social development. Like, I can see how in the psychological models used in Loevinger's 9 Stages of Ego Development, Atheism could serve as a solid foundation for any of these stages to be built upon. For example, most people raised in more religious homes tend to arrive upon Atheism as "Their Choice" somewhere around the 5th Stage Self-Aware Ego, when they realize they're empowered to fashion their own beliefs, separate from their peers' or their parents' - however nowadays I can just as easily see Atheism being the norm for most internet people currently, so it's possible to be an atheist who's content to reside in their 4th Stage Conformist Ego. However ~ I'm not really sure how one could get all the way up to Loevinger's Stage 9 Ego purely on Atheism alone without engaging in at least some innately-Buddhist practices (meditation, self-analysis & discovery, relaxation & body control, etc), but then again Buddhism's closer to a set of mental exercises and general blessings than it is akin to organized religion. For me however, becoming an Atheist was an essential part of my 5th Stage Self-Aware Ego's development, but I know that after several positive hallucinatory experiences during my 6th Stage (Conscientious) Ego's experimentations, I would've called myself an enthusiastic Agnostic. It was only after I'd furthered my relationships that I reached the 7th Stage (individualistic) Ego, wherein I'd accepted that the paradoxical thoughts I had cluttering my concept of self-worth and identity might be something more than mere Jungian archetypes at play, so that by the time I'd found myself (now as a Pantheist) suddenly launching into the 8th Stage of (Autonomous) Ego Development, all that deconstruction and re-conceptualizing people and faces and places and things in my life as gods and facets and forces and symbols bearing great power, it all finally came to a head once the meta-programming I'd been working on separately kicked into high gear and now I've landed on the fast-track through to the 9th (Integrated) Stage. Wish me luck everybody. ALSO: Peace be with you all - to you and yours. Long days and pleasant nights. Love is the wellspring of light, the basis of all power. Maintain thoughts of love and compassion for those you encounter, and the magic is real. Look for the synchronicities around you, and take comfort in their presence. Thou art God, after all. By swearing to do the most good for the least harm; do as thou wilt. I love you (yes you). Godspeed.
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Jan 23, 2016 00:39
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If Nirvana's filled with folks like you, count me out.
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Jan 23, 2016 02:00
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You take yourself and your own life way too seriously. There isn't some grand narrative planned out for you.
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Jan 23, 2016 02:14
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No it's not a choice because all of nature is entirely deterministic. Check and mate 
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Jan 23, 2016 03:13
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I went to boring protestant church as a kid with my family and I just thought it was a thing people did, I was freaked out when I realized people actually believed that stuff. I later went to a Catholic school which cemented my atheism. Later on I got forced to go to church because the military is full of weird religious folks and it is basically assumed that certain people will be attending church. The church group people weirded me out, why are you guys bowling and talking about this poo poo when you could walk half a mile off base and buy beer, smokes, and dirty magazines from the German gas station?
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Jan 23, 2016 03:41
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Thump! posted:I am an atheist. Science is my rifle. Intellect is my blade. Care to do battle? I tried atheism for awhile because religion doesn't make any sense to me. It's like, we're all here holding hands and thanking god for this turkey and our good fortune while I'm looking around for someone to shoot me a furtive glance and wink. We're just pretending to be into this, right? Anyway, I met a bunch of atheists and there was something wrong with them. See quoted example above. Besides, I've seen what I can best describe as ghosts and have had some weird psychic-ish poo poo happen which makes me think there's more than what can be rationally described, not that any of it has much impact on the reality we are experiencing, so it's always been like, might as well be an atheist. A lot of "ghost stuff" is just your dumb brain trying to recognize patterns and coming up with stupid interpretations, I get that. Yet there have been some experiences that make me okay with that not everything can be explained.
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Jan 23, 2016 03:50
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les fleurs du mall posted:Is atheism a choice or can you not help being atheist? I stopped being atheist. source: me, God
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Jan 23, 2016 03:59
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Dinosaurmageddon posted:Atheism is a time-tested, naturally-occurring thoughtform that appears in any person who'd rather inject rationality and healthy amounts of skepticism into their world and their own psycho-social development. Is this copypasta? I read through that stages of ego thing, and it's quite retarded.
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Jan 23, 2016 04:24
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Bast Relief posted:Besides, I've seen what I can best describe as ghosts and have had some weird psychic-ish poo poo happen which makes me think there's more than what can be rationally described, not that any of it has much impact on the reality we are experiencing, so it's always been like, might as well be an atheist. Not currently having an explanation is not an excuse to just make poo poo up.
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Jan 23, 2016 04:43
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I feel that there is an often unspoken subtext to these sorts of discussions. It relates to that stumbling block in a conversation when someone realizes it has come down to faith versus knowledge. Similarly, it relates to arguments that have already been made here concerning an atheist position making no positive claims. Basically, both sides are subscribing to an epistemology, whether they would like to admit it or not. The clash of these ideas of how gnosis is achieved is readily apparent, but a clearer understanding of the clash itself is seemingly rarely even looked for. Most significantly in terms of this topic, an atheist is subscribing to the idea that an understanding of the truth is obtained by rational and empirical analysis. Everything worth knowing is ultimately knowable. I don't think it's wrong, but that is merely one way of looking at things. Many religious people see it differently. It's not beyond a scientific mind to be able to change frames in this regard. Things always look a bit different from another perspective. In fact some of the finest minds of this and nearly passed generations have shown this ability. Let's not act like superstitious thinking, for lack of a less rude phrase, isn't drat well bred into us all. It's a choice when you refuse to switch perspectives. Commonly the refusal is moral in character. It's understandable that many people would think that humankind could use more rational and less magical thinking. I tend to agree. However, for those that have been touched, and remember, this is a deep and primal part of humanity; the refusal of someone else to sense that same reality feels somewhat like an idiot refusing to believe in the wind because he can't see it.
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Jan 23, 2016 04:48
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pangstrom posted:It's way more of a choice than your sexuality and way less of a choice than say whether you put a roll of toilet paper so it spools out in front or the back. Happy to be proven wrong BUT I'm pretty sure that trying to put it in a pure choice/non-choice category and then proceeding from there won't be super illuminating. To be clear, does this mean it's ok to hate back/under-spoolers? Because I do.
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Jan 23, 2016 04:52
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Nathilus posted:I feel that there is an often unspoken subtext to these sorts of discussions. It relates to that stumbling block in a conversation when someone realizes it has come down to faith versus knowledge. Similarly, it relates to arguments that have already been made here concerning an atheist position making no positive claims. I don't necessarily disagree here, but I think there is a gulf between belief in an omnipotent and unknowable god and a sincere belief in young earth creationism and the great flood. At some point it is impossible to engage meaningfully with people.
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Jan 23, 2016 06:54
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Jazerus posted:If Nirvana's filled with folks like you, count me out. Which is fine. Not a lot of people who "pierce the veil" ultimately get a chance to come back and tell their tale to the living world in any sort of meaningful way, so regardless of your thoughts on this I know it will help. Ytlaya posted:You take yourself and your own life way too seriously. There isn't some grand narrative planned out for you. The Kingfish posted:Is this copypasta? I read through that stages of ego thing, and it's quite retarded. 
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Jan 23, 2016 07:15
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Dinosaurmageddon posted:Buddhism's closer to a set of mental exercises and general blessings than it is akin to organized religion. Not really, just everything you hear about it is from weirdo Western converts. The path to enlightenment isn't something you can expect to achieve in a single lifetime. You don't just say "I want to get enlightened" and go off to become a monk and then get to that goal in a few years, or a lifetime. Many mental exercises are only meant to be used by those who are at a high enough level to benefit from them, born at that level. It established its own hierarchy of people, just differently from what you're used to.
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Jan 23, 2016 09:42
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