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I'd like a multimeter that could do a simultaneous amperage and voltage reading, showing both values in the display.
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Apr 5, 2024 16:02
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His Divine Shadow posted:I'd like a multimeter that could do a simultaneous amperage and voltage reading, showing both values in the display. That requires two sets of probes, since amps are measured using a series arrangement (or inductive clamp) and voltage is measured in parallel. At that point two meters is more useful.
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Apr 5, 2024 16:08
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H110Hawk posted:Do not buy a $8 multimeter. If you use them subtly wrong they simply explode in your hand. Has this ever happened to you or are you making poo poo up? The worst I've ever done as an electrically curious pre-pubescent sprout was frying my dad's analog meter by using the current setting in error. A puff of magic smoke wafting from the plastic case and an angry father were the only consequences IIRC. I'd rather fry a cheap one than a nice Fluke or something until I figure out that the "A" settings is advanced mode. My shittiest cheap multimeter sucks, but it's in a plastic case and the probe leads have insulation and it is embossed with a consumer protection agency logo if you're into that sort of thing. It's just annoying because the probes kind of suck and it's not auto-ranging and the continuity beep is really faint and it's hard to hang it up on stuff when working but it's still really useful in that it tells me answers to basic questions like "is this connected to that" or "is there any voltage here" or "will touching this thing hurt/kill me" or "how should I wire up to this switch" or "do I need to replace these alkaline batteries" or "which way does this diode go again" and such, which is 98% of my multimeter use.
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Apr 5, 2024 16:14
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Invalido posted:8 dollar multimeters work, but IMO the sweet spot for cheap multimeters is in the € 20-40 range. If you want maximum ease of use get one that's auto-ranging (i.e. one where there's just one knob setting for all kinds of DC voltage or whatever, not several) Decided to go with this one. Anyone have any good videos on how to use one of these? I’m completely new.
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Apr 5, 2024 16:15
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I've only watched a little but this video seems like a reasonably good a place to start https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0loXukB302Q
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Apr 5, 2024 16:30
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Invalido posted:Has this ever happened to you or are you making poo poo up? No and no. They're made to cheap lovely "standards" - the "it must be $8" standard. If they decide to fail closed, or you put them in current mode and hit a mains feed, then pop like a meter sized fuse. I've also never been hit by a airbag but I also buy cars with them installed. I am not even saying "Fluke or bust" but telling people to not buy the literal cheapest poo poo for anything larger than a 9v battery level troubleshooting isn't some unhinged suggestion. Unrelated to safety, I want to be marginally confident that the readings are correct. H110Hawk fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Apr 5, 2024 |
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Apr 5, 2024 16:44
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Invalido posted:The worst I've ever done as an electrically curious pre-pubescent sprout was frying my dad's analog meter by using the current setting in error. A puff of magic smoke wafting from the plastic case and an angry father were the only consequences IIRC. I'd rather fry a cheap one than a nice Fluke or something until I figure out that the "A" settings is advanced mode. That analog meter was almost certainly built to a better standard than the sub-$8 DMMs available today, at least in terms of properly isolating the user from potentially hazardous voltages. Also, the benefit of a properly designed modern meter is that it is extremely unlikely that you will permanently damage anything other than a replaceable fuse.
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Apr 5, 2024 16:53
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I am team Fluke or Bust. I have never once had a Fluke, either new or all the way down to a beat 77 from the '80s, fail to work as expected. I've seen old ones sort of drift out of calibration tolerance (but more often "drift" so someone can take them home), which is great if you need milli-volt accuracy in a lab but meaningless for day to day use. I buy for life, and because I like to support companies building quality products as a moral thing.
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Apr 5, 2024 17:22
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Fluke makes great multimeters no doubt, I just hope they don't throw away their well earned stellar reputation by enshittifying themselves like so many other tool companies have done in the last couple of decades. I'm on team "every household should have a (reasonably) cheap digital multimeter" myself - It's just one of those things that are so incredibly useful in this world, I don't understand how people get by without them (and at least a basic understanding of electricity). Then again people without basic tools or know-how throw away lots of easily fixable things because they can't do even the most simple diagnostics. Bad for the wallet, bad for the planet - multimeters for everyone! Then at least when they call me because their car won't start I can ask them what the battery voltage reads. (I have a nice one with fancy features and a USB interface I've never used, a cheap one and a small one I got specifically to bring on motorcycle road trips)
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Apr 5, 2024 17:42
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Invalido posted:Fluke makes great multimeters no doubt, I just hope they don't throw away their well earned stellar reputation by enshittifying themselves like so many other tool companies have done in the last couple of decades. That’s why I want to learn to use one finally. It feels like an important tool and easy skill to have that a lot of people ignore.
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Apr 5, 2024 18:01
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Household voltages really won't cause a cheap meter to explode. Even if you do something really bad like measure across the incoming 240V while the meter is hooked up in un-fused 10A mode, the flimsy plastic case of a HF DMM is enough to contain the melted copper bits that will result. In my opinion the real dangers of a cheap lovely meter is that too much of your attention will be taken up with fighting your tool which could lead to you accidentally bumping your hand up against a live conductor, and the leads can easily fray internally to the point that they can't be relied upon to properly indicate that something is live.
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Apr 5, 2024 18:20
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Shifty Pony posted:Household voltages really won't cause a cheap meter to explode. Even if you do something really bad like measure across the incoming 240V while the meter is hooked up in un-fused 10A mode, the flimsy plastic case of a HF DMM is enough to contain the melted copper bits that will result. I have literally melted the leads on a cheap DMM that was set to continuity rather than voltage on a 120v circuit while helping someone figure out a switch loop. If I hadn't realized this pretty immediately the insulation on the leads would have failed badly enough to have exposed wires underneath, which were now live with 120v. Cheap meters should not be a thing we recomend for line voltage. While I was the cause for using the meter incorrectly, it did not fail safe. Good meters do and that should bne considered a bare minimum.
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Apr 5, 2024 18:26
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Fluke is good but Overpriced, but I am also on team Dont Buy an Eight Dollar Multimeter. I could make an :effortpost: on products that are built to a price point, and late stage capitalism sucking the value out of everything but I wont. The important thing to know is they are not eight dollar multi-meters, they are three dollar multi-meters, because everyone down the line selling them has to get their cut. the only thing those cheap multis are good for is if you are messing around with a 9v battery and some LEDs. Anything bigger, you want something built heavier. Car diagnostics? You need something that can do more amperage, or even has a clamp. Line household wiring? You need something that has safety components. You don't need to spend three hundo on a Fluke. Klein makes some decent products in the 50-75 range, and it will probably be the only meter you ever need to buy.
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Apr 6, 2024 02:17
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I think my HVAC contractor is in over his head. I had him install a whole new system, lots of ductwork changes, and a AprilAire 800 Whole Home Steam Humidifier. I think he's missed several key elements of this and I'm not even sure how the thermostat handles it. Probably partially because well, it's missing parts. I need to get into the attic and see WTF is going on there it seems. Before I have The Uncomfortable Phone Call can I get verification of my suspicions here? https://imgur.com/a/lpVo6Xg Page 18 seems to be the critical one: https://www.aprilaire.com/docs/defa...de-b2206277.pdf Key picture, there's more in the gallery above:  This is all hooked up to a poo poo show of a Armstrong Air Comfort Sync thermostat, heat pump, etc. Which said "Alert code 371 Problem Air Handler" this morning. https://www.armstrongair.com/products/comfort-sync-thermostat/ Allied Mfg 5 Ton 19 SEER2 Variable https://www.armstrongair.com/products/heat-pumps/4SHP22LX Heatpump MFG #: 4SHP22LX160P MFG #: BCE7S60MA4X50 **AHRI #211727077 I should have never done a variable speed heat pump.
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Apr 8, 2024 19:32
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That's how I hooked mine up at the unit. There should be a return duct mounted humidistat that came with it. This need to be wired in to have fan control of your air handler (you break the G wire and loop it through the stat - if will fail closed if there is no power to the stat so everything will work just as if there was no humidifier present) as well as an outside thermometer signal (also included) and to the unit itself where you have those 2 wires landed. You then turn on the unit and set the desired relative humidity lefel on the humidistat and walk away and never touch it again.
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Apr 8, 2024 19:45
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Motronic posted:That's how I hooked mine up at the unit. There should be a return duct mounted humidistat that came with it. This need to be wired in to have fan control of your air handler (you break the G wire and loop it through the stat - if will fail closed if there is no power to the stat so everything will work just as if there was no humidifier present) as well as an outside thermometer signal (also included) and to the unit itself where you have those 2 wires landed. You then turn on the unit and set the desired relative humidity lefel on the humidistat and walk away and never touch it again. Yeah that's what I need to get into the attic and see with my own eyes. Because that brown wire from the attic into the unit is not going to the humidistat terminal. This was also just replaced due to the floating neutral incident so that may have been wired wrong then, but I've never seen this unit produce steam even before that. Mind you it was like 69% humidity in there due to all the mud work done. It's down to like 35% now that I've been running the heater for a few weeks.
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Apr 8, 2024 20:05
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There are a lot of optional ways to hook these things up, and the instructions are very complicated because of that. Someone who doesn't understand what it does and the desired outcomes very well make absolutely incorrect decisions about how to install this thing. We had a goon in a well situation a while back where someone just had to get this thing connected to their internet of poo poo thermostat and wonders why the humidity control is so bad/imprecise: it's because you're supposed to measure it at the return, not where you stat is at. I've alse seen these things hooked up without fan control, which means they can only run when stat is calling for heat. This is typically not enough runtime to satisfy a house of the size those units are designed for. If you install it "the hard way" (humidistat, outdoor thermometer, fan control) it's is a 100% set it and forget it device. The thing simply won't turn on when it's too warm out, it will figure out eh correct relative humidity based on external temp + internal humidity, and when it's not had a call to humidify for long enough it will run a purge cycle to dump its water and basically go into standby until the stat calls for humidity again. It's an exceptionally well thought out system. The only reason to install it differently is if you've got something well beyond a standard comfort air setup in your home. Motronic fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Apr 8, 2024 |
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Apr 8, 2024 21:03
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Yeah I am just trying to figure out if it's installed correctly at all. Every option in manual has something hooked up to the humidistat terminals. It feels like there isn't a way for this unit to get a "call for humidity" from the humidistat. This is one of the various options but they are all similar in this element. Eventually it gets into 866 models which have 3 pins there not 2.
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Apr 8, 2024 21:19
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Ohhhh....boy, yeah....I see now. They absolutely hooked up the humidistat to the wrong terminal. I didn't zoom in at first, sorry. I have no idea what the alarm terminal is for in that thing but it's sure not gonna make it produce steam. If the other end of that brown cable is the correct humidistat it probalby just needs to be moved to the stat terminal. All the oter stuff will need to be verified with the wiring to the stat and ait handler.
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Apr 8, 2024 21:27
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Lol thank god because I felt like I was taking crazy pills there for a moment. I'm going to get up in the attic because he also needs to have wired it to lock out the AC mode if it's humidifying and somehow I doubt that. I need this thing operational year round not just in the cold months.
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Apr 9, 2024 06:25
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One problem though. That's my tall ladder. Apparently they lay 3 clutches a season. 14 days of incubation and a few weeks to fledge. Clutch 1 hatched 4 days ago. 
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Apr 9, 2024 06:29
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I noticed the insulation on the cold return from my AC unit has completely disintegrated. It was probably bad last year and I didn't notice. There's some tarnished (green) areas of the copper pipe, but nothing that I think looks like deep corrosion, and the unit seems to be working fine. It seems like replacing the insulation isn't that big of a deal, there's some premade pipe sections from brands like armaflex or k-flex that appear to be what I'd want for outdoor use. And some insulating tape to use right at each end. My questions would be: 1) Is there anything I could/should do to clean the green/tarnished areas of the pipe before re-wrapping? To make sure it doesn't continue to corrode underneath. 2) The pipes enter the house at a weird angle, so there's a big glob of what looks like black spray foam insulation around the entry point. On a total blind guess is there some kind of UV-resistant black spray foam insulation you would use in a case like that? It has some holes in it and is cracking and getting soft, and I'd need to tear it out to wrap insulation tape around the last inch or so, and then fill the area it meets the siding.
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Apr 15, 2024 16:34
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Rescue Toaster posted:I noticed the insulation on the cold return from my AC unit has completely disintegrated. It was probably bad last year and I didn't notice. There's some tarnished (green) areas of the copper pipe, but nothing that I think looks like deep corrosion, and the unit seems to be working fine. Are you talking about the suction line? The larger of the two copper lines that go between your compressopr unit outside and the evaperator inside? If so, just buy some split pipe insulation of the right size and replace the damaged section. If you want to go around shining brass first you can do that but it's doubtful it will have any impact at all.
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Apr 15, 2024 17:15
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Motronic posted:Are you talking about the suction line? The larger of the two copper lines that go between your compressopr unit outside and the evaperator inside? If so, just buy some split pipe insulation of the right size and replace the damaged section. If you want to go around shining brass first you can do that but it's doubtful it will have any impact at all. Yes the larger copper line, suction line sounds right. That's exactly what I'm planning to do I just didn't know if there was any need to clean it before wrapping it to not 'trap' anything inside. However, looking at pictures & websites of people doing this, most of the pipes look like a penny that has been sitting in the bottom of a fish tank for 50 years and they seem to be rewrapping them without concern.
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Apr 15, 2024 17:36
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Did you know: If you put a 24v DC relay into a 24v AC system, it makes a horrible noise? This fact brought to you by my attempt to get my dehumidifer working with the new ecobee (which doesn't support two-wire accessories natively)
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Apr 18, 2024 00:23
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ha ha relay goes brrrrrrrrr
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Apr 18, 2024 01:20
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You wanted it to turn on 60 times a second, right?
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Apr 18, 2024 03:43
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60 times a second is basically continuous right? Having purchased the correct relay, all is now functioning normally.
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Apr 19, 2024 03:01
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devicenull posted:60 times a second is basically continuous right? With a sufficiently large capacitor, yes. 
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Apr 19, 2024 03:21
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Previous owner had installed awnings around the house and both units are underneath them like below I've read conflicting information about this affecting efficiency both positively, because it's shaded which I doubt, or negatively because the expelled hot air can't escape as easily. Should I go ahead and remove the roof panels over them?
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Apr 19, 2024 20:26
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Invalido posted:Has this ever happened to you or are you making poo poo up? The worst I've ever done as an electrically curious pre-pubescent sprout was frying my dad's analog meter by using the current setting in error. A puff of magic smoke wafting from the plastic case and an angry father were the only consequences IIRC. If you fried my Simpson 260 I'd have already forgotten where you were buried.
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Apr 19, 2024 21:33
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jisforjosh posted:Previous owner had installed awnings around the house and both units are underneath them like below If its tall enough you can stand under that awning*, there is enough room for air to mix. if there is enough room for you to walk around the unit to service it, Its fine. the Trane install manual specifically calls for 5ft vertical space above, and 12" away from any walls. I have seen units with less than this that have been working fine for decades. Sun Shading does not matter one bit. If you are in an area with heavy snow/ice accumulation, the awning can prevent heavy drifts from sliding off the roof and crushing the unit, because it is basically a perforated sheet metal box with a bunch of tinfoil fin radiators inside. *assumes you are not a 7+ft NBA player
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Apr 20, 2024 01:18
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