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Jaweeeblop
Nov 12, 2004

rdb posted:

My bad. I was thinking since he had both Auxiliary heat and emergency heat that it was a dual fuel type system. Although I don't know where you would put heat strips in a furnace.

This is a dual fuel system, heat pump with heat strips. If you are running the heat pump and the demand is greater than the heat pump alone can accomplish the heat strips kick in and the thermostat will notify you that the heat strips have engaged by displaying some form of "aux heat". If the heat pump is broken you can set to emergency heat and only run the heat strips without trying to run the heat pump as well. They are the same thing, just different names for different applications.

You can't figure out where to put heat strips on a furnace because you don't do that. To add a second form of heat to a furnace you replace the straight cool condenser with a heat pump offering the ability to run either heat pump or gas burning furnace. This is generally only done out in the boonies where people use propane for gas rather than having natural gas hookups to every house in the neighborhood and the propane heat is the backup to the heat pump.

As far as nest and common go, most systems supply enough voltage through the y/w terminal to recharge the nest sufficiently during a demand for heating or cooling. Sometimes there isn't enough power present and the nest malfunctions in 1 of 3 ways: blank display due to no power, display present but absolutely nothing happens when call for heat/cool is in place, or intermittent call for heat/cool where nest sends a signal until drained and then stops until sufficiently recharged to send signal again.

In the pictures that were posted it looks like there are unused blue and brown wires pushed back into the wall. Hook blue to c in the nest and hook blue to c at the air handler control board. If nest detects a wire at c, cool, if not try the brown. If still no wire detected pull new wire or get an add a wire kit.

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Jaweeeblop
Nov 12, 2004

rdb posted:

I had a heat pump put on top of my propane furnace. Sort of the opposite of your situation but the same end result.

It's probably saved 200 gallons of propane since it was installed in January. The house stays comfortable enough and the electric increase was only $30 a month or so. Well worth it.

For reference house is 2000sq ft, early 1900s construction, no insulation. Normal usage was 600 gallons of propane per year.

That's an incredible drop in propane usage, I can't imagine the level of relief you feel knowing you don't have to refill your tank as frequently. Not sure about your area but where I am propane isn't exactly cheap. I just read through this thread for the first time in awhile and the before/after pics of your system was one of the first posts I saw. Lmao at the before shot.

Jaweeeblop
Nov 12, 2004

iForge posted:

Refrigerant and other parts are commonly marked up by contractors but $140/lb is absurd. If memory serves right, I pay around $22/pound for R-22 last I bought it around a month ago. If I was doing the repair, I would have charged no more than $40/pound. I'd find a new contractor.

A lot of big companies are jacking their prices on r22 to add incentive for people to replace systems rather than repair them. With r22 being phased out in a year and a half it isn’t necessarily a bad thing to swap your old system from a nearly obsolete refrigerant to 410a, but that doesn’t make the method any less underhanded. The company I work for charges $183 per pound and it sucks telling elderly people how much it costs for me to fix things. I’m about to switch back to install full time until I get my contractors license this fall just so I can stop feeling so guilty every drat day when I get home. I’ve never been more excited at the prospect of taking a massive dive in salary.

Also $22 per pound seems pretty high. Supply houses here in San Antonio are at $475 per 30lb cylinder.

Jaweeeblop
Nov 12, 2004

mcgreenvegtables posted:

Update if anyone is interested.

The technician came today and set up his gauges to take a reading.



He told me based on the superheat (SH) number of 50, the refrigerant was low and said based on the outdoor temperature it should be reading about 10 and that his guess was it was at 60% charge. I asked if this meant there was a leak and he said "the service fittings looked a bit loose, so my guess is that is where the leak was" and he didn't bother to look for an actual leak. Which I thought was illegal? He charged me $85 service charge + $140/pound to put in 2.5 lbs of R22. Let me know if that is ripoff pricing and if so I'll throw his business card in the trash. But my guess is that is reasonable?

Hard to tell yet if the system is working better. The tech promised me the recharge would change everything. Based on my IR temp gauge vent air is now around 52F instead of 60F, and the refrigerant line is definitely colder to the touch at the evaporator. Fingers crossed this solves my problems for the next few years.

Based on the liquid line pipe clamp still having the factory twist tie on it I’m guessing his gauges are new. he should have both clamps hooked up to take proper readings. Underneath where the pipe clamps connect to the manifold are black circles that rotate to calibrate the temperature being read, both are set in the factory default meaning he never zeroed them in so his super heat, sub cool, liquid line temperature, and suction line temperature will never read properly. I have that same set, when I first tested them both clamps were reading 8 degrees high and had to be lowered. Based off pressures your system is low, but 10 degree superheat is unlikely unless he is checking the value right at the evap coil. Most systems will be running about a 20 to 25 at the condenser which is where he was checking. Impossible to determine exactly what yours should be off of just outdoor ambient, also needs to check indoor wet bulb. The neat thing about those gauges is you can enter the outdoor ambient and the indoor wet bulb and it automatically calculates your target superheat, no guess work required. Use a probe style thermometer to check the temperature of air entering the system vs air exiting the system. Your ir gun is telling you the temp of what ever surface you are pointing at not the actual air. 18 degrees of difference is the standard most people fall back on but that number will change based off the humidity level inside your home. If your system truly needed 2.5 lbs you have a fairly significant leak somewhere and should start setting aside money for the eventual replacement. R22 is going to continue climbing exponentially in price for the next few years.

Jaweeeblop fucked around with this message at 05:50 on Jul 9, 2018

Jaweeeblop
Nov 12, 2004

MRC48B posted:

Imma stop you right there, because this is exactly what I meant by the FUD surrounding EPA phase-outs.

What is actually happening is R-22 will be unlawful to Produce or import.

So unless your name is Chemours, Arkema, or Honeywell (all of whom are ahead of the game and want R22 gone.) You have nothing to worry about.

Your household system will not be "illegal"

Recharging it will not be illegal.

Repairing it (or not) will not be illegal.

Buying existing stock of R22 will not be illegal.

Yes, the price of 22 will rise a bit, as supply decreases, but recovery and recycling of r22 is also not illegal, so there will be a supply available for the (already declining) demand.

You can still buy R-12 on ebay. Yeah the price is higher than in the 1960s. So is milk and gasoline.

There's also 32 Flavors of R-22 replacement refrigerants, for all applications.

Anyone telling you "R-22 will be illegal" just wants to sell you a new system, because he's too lazy to fix yours.
you should buy a new system
That’s an awful lot of words you’re putting in my mouth that I didn’t say. At no point did I say r22 will be illegal. At no point did I say fixing a system will be illegal. I said it’s being phased out which it is. I said prices will rise, which they will. 7 years ago when I moved to San Antonio a 30lb cylinder cost me $99. Now it costs me $475. That is a pretty serious increase. Please don’t get defensive over nothing.

Jaweeeblop fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Jul 10, 2018

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