Is there a wage gap?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Is there a wage gap?

ReadyToHuman: Jan 8, 2016

computer parts posted:

- The highest paying jobs are predominantly male (and women tend to quit these jobs faster than men)

Amusingly, when a job is regarded as a job women go for, it's valued less.

Software engineering was valued far less when it was mostly done by women and men were predominantly in hardware, for one example.

# ¿ Feb 1, 2016 02:44

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# ¿ May 22, 2024 07:01

ReadyToHuman: Jan 8, 2016

silence_kit posted:

Computer programming in the age of the ENIAC was very different from computer programming now. Conflating them is naive or dishonest. The work that the women computer programmers did during WWII was pretty menial and was stuff like opening/closing switches.

Weirdly this didn't end with ENIAC

and lol yes it's all opening/closing switches in one manner or another, in varying degrees of complexity.

# ¿ Feb 1, 2016 03:56

ReadyToHuman: Jan 8, 2016

Yes programming now with high-level natural languages and module libraries and interpreters is very different from having to code reams and reams of machine language. Menial.

# ¿ Feb 1, 2016 03:59

ReadyToHuman: Jan 8, 2016

Lyesh posted:

ENIAC programs look like this:

That's completely hosed up an insane, but it's recognizable as something even more basic than machine code. These programs were written by women who had degrees in math and were able to calculate ballistics equations by hand. If you want to call that menial, then you can't get away with calling this not menial:

Dang it's almost like work is less valued when it's mostly women doing it??

# ¿ Feb 1, 2016 05:05

ReadyToHuman: Jan 8, 2016

Jarmak posted:

You've got the cause and effect backwards here I think, historically a job has been considered "for women" because of it's low value, not the other way around.

You'd think so, but it turns out no.

In Russia, for another example, the majority of Doctors are women, and it's one of the lowest-paid professions they have.

http://www.pravdareport.com/society/stories/18-10-2010/115411-doctors_russia_usa-0/

ReadyToHuman fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Feb 1, 2016

# ¿ Feb 1, 2016 16:40

ReadyToHuman: Jan 8, 2016

A Buttery Pastry posted:

You assume doctors aren't considered low value in Russia.

That's actually the opposite of what any stringing together of my posts would deduce I assume

# ¿ Feb 1, 2016 17:24

ReadyToHuman: Jan 8, 2016

Jarmak posted:

This also doesn't address what I said at all, it's clearly considered a low value profession in Russia

Weird how it is the same job but valued differently.

Weird.

# ¿ Feb 1, 2016 17:25

ReadyToHuman: Jan 8, 2016

It's an amusing resilient handwave, to watch unfolding.

Well see it isn't so much a wage gap as it is women just don't pursue high-value professions for some reason.

Well here's the same job in the same place different time periods, when the work was more difficult and more foundational and primarly women it was less valued, and here's the same job at the same time, in different places, and it's valued less where women do it more, for some reason.

Now, we could think "Huh there's a pattern of women's work being devalued" or we can just think those foolish women keep seeking out undervalued work. Dang it women! Stop doing that! You're making a wage gap!

# ¿ Feb 1, 2016 17:31

ReadyToHuman: Jan 8, 2016

Radbot posted:

Addressing the racial wage gap is infinitely more important than addressing the gender wage gap. Women being "forced" to have kids and work is obviously less of an issue than a class of folks who get paid less no matter what choices they make.

So from this I take it to mean the wage gap disappears entirely when women don't decide to have kids?

# ¿ Feb 1, 2016 21:21

ReadyToHuman: Jan 8, 2016

Radbot posted:

It narrows significantly, yes

Hmm so by "yes" you mean "no."

Interesting.

# ¿ Feb 1, 2016 21:26

ReadyToHuman: Jan 8, 2016

Radbot posted:

Sorry for disagreeing that narrowing a single-digit gap is less important than narrowing a double-digit one. Or is it just that white women stand to be helped more than minority women that compels you?

Uh oh, the gap is still there within race too!

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0882775.html

# ¿ Feb 1, 2016 21:48

ReadyToHuman: Jan 8, 2016

Radbot posted:

Thanks for proving exactly what I'm saying - that white women still have it worlds better than any minority.

So yes the gender wage gap exists, regardless of race. Race wage gap is a thing that also exists.

Weirdly, both can be regarded as important and dismissing one for the existence of the other is some bullshit.

# ¿ Feb 1, 2016 21:58

ReadyToHuman: Jan 8, 2016

anne frank fanfic posted:

The wage gap definitely exists because of this 5 year old study done by an academic with lots of completely accurate data from industry.

I like to explain the fact that the wage gap is in favor of women now (as of 2015) by the fact that most women who may not be as career focused (eg may not have the most desirable skills, or may not wish to negotiate) self select out of the high-earning years due to childbirth and raising children. 60% of women with graduate degrees only work for 3-4 years after obtaining their degree (yes, even expensive degrees such as JDs and MBAs), which is why you see so few companies rush to give maternity leave (the prevailing thought among executives is why pay them this time off when they will leave the company and workforce in general a few years after having a child). Because of that, the women that are left are the extremely driven women who are very career focused and likely have less family distractions, which means compared to the average male at that level they are able to earn more. The lower levels are statistically equal, its just at the top women are higher earners by far and that contributes to the female-favored wage gap.

So the wage gap favors women because she has to be a supercompetent uberfrau to compete with any random schlub of a dude.

Seems legit.

# ¿ Feb 2, 2016 17:14

ReadyToHuman: Jan 8, 2016

There's also maybe not so much a "It's A Choice: Case Closed" quality to that business of women leaving the workforce even if they have degrees when childcare is often more expensive than rent

# ¿ Feb 2, 2016 17:43

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# ¿ May 22, 2024 07:01

ReadyToHuman: Jan 8, 2016

Meta Ridley posted:

Has Child Care been brought up?

Yes it has, on this page and well i guess the conclusion is: shoulda thought about that before having children.

Though weirdly, this does not adversely impact fathers, and instead, the opposite happens.

# ¿ Feb 3, 2016 16:33

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Is there a wage gap?