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So the private security guard only pointed a loaded gun at the drunk idiots twice before taking their money? If this is what petty drunken vandalism gets you I'd hate to see what happens to someone who steals, gets into a fender bender, or trespasses.
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Aug 19, 2016 21:39
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JoelJoel posted:So the private security guard only pointed a loaded gun at the drunk idiots twice before taking their money? If this is what petty drunken vandalism gets you I'd hate to see what happens to someone who steals, gets into a fender bender, or trespasses. The drunken idiots tried to run away, got stopped by a guy with a gun in his hand, then they were told to sit down and wait for the police and a specific drunken idiot refused to comply...and got the gun pointed at him again. Then, on their OWN iniciative, they handed money to the guys so they wouldn't get police involved. Sorry if this wrecks your narrative.
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Aug 19, 2016 21:47
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JoelJoel posted:So the private security guard only pointed a loaded gun at the drunk idiots twice before taking their money? If this is what petty drunken vandalism gets you I'd hate to see what happens to someone who steals, gets into a fender bender, or trespasses. Haha, exactly Lochte is an incredibly contemptible douchebag but considering he grew up in the united states I can't exactly blame him for framing this as an armed robbery, because by our standards, that is exactly what this would be Just because some weird unacceptable thing is normal and acceptable in Rio doesn't make it normal and acceptable everywhere else
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Aug 19, 2016 21:48
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Dias posted:The drunken idiots tried to run away, got stopped by a guy with a gun in his hand, then they were told to sit down and wait for the police and a specific drunken idiot refused to comply...and got the gun pointed at him again. Then, on their OWN iniciative, they handed money to the guys so they wouldn't get police involved. Sorry if this wrecks your narrative. Your narrative only wrecks our narrative if we take it on face value as true I don't take your narrative at face value as being true because the people who are spreading the narrative- primarily Rio police, the Brazilian government and it's representatives - have been actively trying to downplay what happened because of how embarrassing this is for them and just the mere existence of a gun is something they were disputing only a couple of days ago. The only thing I think here that we can be 100% sure of after the last couple of days is that Ryan Lochte is possibly the biggest douchebag in America, and also, you should probably never go to Brazil for any reason
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Aug 19, 2016 21:50
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Mirthless posted:Haha, exactly Dude. The decision to pay the people came FROM THE SWIMMERS, according to ONE OF THE SWIMMERS. They DIDN'T have guns pointed at them all the time, and even ONE OF THE SWIMMERS told them that Lochte was acting erratic enough that the gun wasn't even excessive force.
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Aug 19, 2016 21:51
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you'd rather take the narrative of a guy caught in a lie three times Man, I'm not gonna convince you. Sure, Lochte got mugged by the corrupt police force of Brazil. Go with that one.
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Aug 19, 2016 21:53
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Dias posted:you'd rather take the narrative of a guy caught in a lie three times vs the Brazilian government and police Olympic organisers. Truly paragons of virtue and honesty. I don't meant this as a personal attack but if the events are as you describe them here and are considered normal, Rio sounds like just the place I don't ever want to visit.
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Aug 19, 2016 22:08
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Some people are really bent on excusing/justifying their behavior and blaming it all in Brazil. Its kinda like "Lochte is an rear end in a top hat but how dare those savages bully an american like that? we all know they are all thieves anyway" Is not like we dont deserve a bit of this terrible image, Brazil really has rampant crime and a corrupt police, but this one time they are obviously just doing their job and Lochte was obviously an idiot edit: like the above poster. Yeah, lets ignore that Lochte and co. objectively lied to the police and that there are witness and video and even confessions. Its Brazil, right? They are all corrupt and just want to squeeze us for money Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Aug 19, 2016 |
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Aug 19, 2016 22:14
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JoelJoel posted:vs the Brazilian government and police Olympic organisers. Truly paragons of virtue and honesty. First, nah, I'm quoting poo poo out of the other swimmers' mouthes AND video evidence. Second, what events, though? You can get a gun pointed at you by police officers in America if you refuse to comply/try to escape. You can try and pay for damages to avoid getting arrested for a misdemeanor too. That's my point, I have no idea how this was "akin to a mugging". I can tell you it's not "normal" if you're not a fuckhead tho, I've somehow went through life without getting mugged by security officers.
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Aug 19, 2016 22:14
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Dias posted:First, nah, I'm quoting poo poo out of the other swimmers' mouthes AND video evidence. Second, what events, though? You can get a gun pointed at you by police officers in America if you refuse to comply/try to escape. You can try and pay for damages to avoid getting arrested for a misdemeanor too. That's my point, I have no idea how this was "akin to a mugging". I can tell you it's not "normal" if you're not a fuckhead tho, I've somehow went through life without getting mugged by security officers. Think you're missing my point. I'm taking what you say at face value. I'm accepting that you have likely reliable sources. Still sounds utterly insane to me. And yes, America is also nuts. Noted. I'll also stay away from the crazy parts of the US. Anyway, you don't seem capable of taking this as anything but a personal attack so I'll leave it here. Sorry your city got bad PR for being kind of insane and scary.
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Aug 19, 2016 22:37
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JoelJoel posted:So the private security guard only pointed a loaded gun at the drunk idiots twice before taking their money? If this is what petty drunken vandalism gets you I'd hate to see what happens to someone who steals, gets into a fender bender, or trespasses.
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Aug 19, 2016 22:42
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I think you can say that Lochte probably shouldn't have had a gun pointed at him, ideally, while at the same time agreeing that calling the situation a "robbery at gunpoint" is a rather fanciful exaggeration.
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Aug 19, 2016 22:43
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JoelJoel posted:Think you're missing my point. I'm taking what you say at face value. I'm accepting that you have likely reliable sources. Still sounds utterly insane to me. And yes, America is also crazy. Noted. I'll also stay away from the crazy parts of the US. I'm not taking it as a personal attack, man. I'm just baffled at someone saying "this is a literal mugging anyway" despite loads of evidence pointing in the other direction, and I can only assume it's a "lol brazil" thing. gently caress, I live thousands of miles AWAY from Rio anyway, gently caress cariocas and Flamengo and Copacabana. But dude, if "vandals got held up; paid for damages to avoid the police" is such an insane situation for you as an AMERICAN, I dunno what to say. Maybe it's the gun that shocked you, but most official accounts are saying "held at gunpoint" was a vast overstatement.
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Aug 19, 2016 22:44
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Dias posted:I'm not taking it as a personal attack, man. Funny, because you are certainly acting like somebody who is taking it personally.
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Aug 20, 2016 00:03
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edit: actually, you know what? Not even worth the derision.
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Aug 20, 2016 00:07
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Dias posted:"held at gunpoint" was a vast overstatement. Someone used a gun to keep them from leaving.
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Aug 20, 2016 00:10
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Dias posted:I'm not taking it as a personal attack, man. I'm just baffled at someone saying "this is a literal mugging anyway" despite loads of evidence pointing in the other direction, and I can only assume it's a "lol brazil" thing. gently caress, I live thousands of miles AWAY from Rio anyway, gently caress cariocas and Flamengo and Copacabana. But dude, if "vandals got held up; paid for damages to avoid the police" is such an insane situation for you as an AMERICAN, I dunno what to say. Maybe it's the gun that shocked you, but most official accounts are saying "held at gunpoint" was a vast overstatement. In civilised society mall cops have the authority to stand their fat rear end in your way while swearing at you for shoplifting or breaking a door or something. It's the actual cops that point guns at you (in moderately civilised countries) or just go and arrest you without involving guns (in fully civilised countries).
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Aug 20, 2016 00:17
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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drilldo squirt posted:Someone used a gun to keep them from leaving. And then upholstered the gun after realizing the dudes weren't gonna offer any resistance. Then showed it again when one of them refused to stay put until the police came. It wasn't the greatest handling of a criminal situation by a security officer ever, but it wasn't "literally a mugging at gunpoint". They weren't surrendered at gunpoint until they paid cash. Like, this is info out of the SWIMMERS' mouthes, Lochte is the one guy standing by the original story and he's a blithering imbecile by all accounts. Can we agree that the gun was probably unnecessary (security officers here are a bit more on edge than your average mall cop) but there's a chasm between that and Locthe's story being 90% truth? Why are we even discussing this still? Apparently the Paralympics are still a clusterfuck (to the point I haven't heard a word about them in local news).
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Aug 20, 2016 00:18
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Yeah, when he looked like he was going to leave the security guard used a gun to keep him there.
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Aug 20, 2016 00:20
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You don't pull a gun on someone unless you are willing to shoot them, and if you're willing to shoot someone over some petty property damage that makes you pretty messed up. Being an idiot and a dick is not a capital offense. That's the point everyone is trying to make.
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Aug 20, 2016 00:26
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rscott posted:You don't pull a gun on someone unless you are willing to shoot them, and if you're willing to shoot someone over some petty property damage that makes you pretty messed up. Being an idiot and a dick is not a capital offense. That's the point everyone is trying to make. also that private security guards hired by random businesses are not the police and don't have even remotely comparable authority to actual police (except in the mad max wasteland of south amerikkka I guess)
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Aug 20, 2016 00:33
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rscott posted:You don't pull a gun on someone unless you are willing to shoot them, and if you're willing to shoot someone over some petty property damage that makes you pretty messed up. Being an idiot and a dick is not a capital offense. That's the point everyone is trying to make. And I agree, although I think the customary goon abrasiveness is loving up any attempt at, y'know, having a dialogue, hehe. I think the guard overstepped his boundaries there for sure, but I also think stating it was basically a gunpoint robbery is ignorant at best with the tons of evidence around saying otherwise. Lochte wasn't extorted, and neither were his pals. I can understand the guard using his gun to stop the car considering it's Rio, but sure, that was dumb, I'll give you that. It's still a bit overstated, but it was the wrong position to take. I just got kinda mesmerized by the guy wanting to go with the Lochte angle and probably overargued in favor of the guard, in hindsight.
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Aug 20, 2016 00:41
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rscott posted:You don't pull a gun on someone unless you are willing to shoot them, and if you're willing to shoot someone over some petty property damage that makes you pretty messed up. Being an idiot and a dick is not a capital offense. That's the point everyone is trying to make. Ok, you got a point. Still I dont think we can say that they were robbed at gunpoint, and from what I've read, he just pulled it out for a second.Still bad, of course. But who knows, there are a lot of conflicting versions of that story floating around, we don't really know And in fact, is not really common for a gas station security guy to be armed in Brazil, not where I live at least. But Rio is a loving war zone lately. I've read somewhere that the security guy was actually an off duty cop (they often takes security jobs as a second job), which would explain both the gun and his truculence
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Aug 20, 2016 00:46
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I like how we'll come out of this circular discussion with two obvious conclusions: Lochte and his mates are massive idiots and the police force in Brazil isn't exactly tactful. For what it's worth, they were just airing the security officer's version on Globo and according to him the gun pointing happened because they started moving towards them looking pretty pissed. Not that it justifies it or anything, just wanted to add another info to what is already a fuckin' mess of a story.
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Aug 20, 2016 00:56
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 there are actually people arguing about whether or not some South American country is some messed up backwater while, you know, completely ignoring the fact that it was all set off by a group of Lying American Assholes.
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Aug 20, 2016 01:11
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Doctor Butts posted:
But enough about South America-USA Cold War relations.
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Aug 20, 2016 01:12
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its hard to imagine why Americans are despised at this point right
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Aug 20, 2016 01:31
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Dias posted:And then upholstered the gun after realizing the dudes weren't gonna offer any resistance. think you mean reholstered, unless he was sewing leather directly onto his gun 
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Aug 20, 2016 01:39
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mrbradlymrmartin posted:think you mean reholstered, unless he was sewing leather directly onto his gun Look, I just saw "holster" on my cellphone and thought "good enough".
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Aug 20, 2016 01:54
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http://www.nbcolympics.com/news/us-swimmer-gunnar-bentz-tells-his-story-rio-gas-station-incident How is this different from what Lochte said? They were robbed at gunpoint. Point blank end of story.
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Aug 20, 2016 01:56
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gohmak posted:http://www.nbcolympics.com/news/us-swimmer-gunnar-bentz-tells-his-story-rio-gas-station-incident See, that doesn't entirely match what their "translator" said earlier today on TV or what came out during testimony: the swimmers asked if they could pay for the damage and just leave, the guards said sure, etc, etc. I dunno why the random dude would lie about it either, it's not like HE got paid, he was just a customer that spoke English.
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Aug 20, 2016 02:02
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Dias posted:Look, I just saw "holster" on my cellphone and thought "good enough". an upholstered gun was an awful funny mental picture thank you
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Aug 20, 2016 02:14
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mrbradlymrmartin posted:an upholstered gun was an awful funny mental picture You're welcome, hehe. I didn't even notice that fuckup until you pointed it out.
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Aug 20, 2016 02:17
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Asking for actual context. Is it usual to pay a fine to a charity? I dunno how the Brasilian legal system works. And is the $11k fine typical for a false statement to the police, public urination and breaking a door?
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Aug 20, 2016 02:28
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Rip Testes posted:Asking for actual context. Is it usual to pay a fine to a charity? I dunno how the Brasilian legal system works. And is the $11k fine typical for a false statement to the police, public urination and breaking a door? Not directly to a charity, in this context they just decided to transfer the money to it because Olympics and all. About the fine, kinda sorta? I'm not a lawyer, but IIRC fines for misdemeanors in Brazil are calculated weird, the judge calculates a base value, no less than 1/30 of minimum wage and no more than 5 times that, then multiplies it by an X amount of days, no less than 10, nor more than 360. It depends on culpability (for the time period) and financial conditions (for the base value).
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Aug 20, 2016 02:41
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gohmak posted:http://www.nbcolympics.com/news/us-swimmer-gunnar-bentz-tells-his-story-rio-gas-station-incident quote:“Two men, whom I believe to have been security guards, then instructed us to exit the vehicle. No guns were drawn during this exchange, but we did see a gun tucked into one of the guard’s waistband. As Jimmy and Jack were walking away from the vehicle, the first security guard held up a badge to me and drew his handgun. I yelled to them to come back toward us and they complied. Then the second guard drew his weapon and both guards pointed their guns at us and yelled at us to sit on a nearby sidewalk. So Lochte wasn't lying when he said "whatever " gohmak fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Aug 20, 2016 |
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Aug 20, 2016 03:47
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gohmak posted:So Lochte was lying when he said "whatever " He probably didn't have a gun pushed against his head, though considering he was drunk and being menaced by two dudes with firearms I can't say I blame him for having a poor memory Dias posted:See, that doesn't entirely match what their "translator" said earlier today on TV or what came out during testimony: the swimmers asked if they could pay for the damage and just leave, the guards said sure, etc, etc. I dunno why the random dude would lie about it either, it's not like HE got paid, he was just a customer that spoke English. Maybe the translator thought this interaction was a perfectly reasonable thing just like you seem to Because, again, if this happened in the united states, the only people who would likely be going to jail here would have been the security guards It's so loving bizarre to me how many ways you guys are rationalizing the absolutely bonkers situation of a civilian holding another civilian at gunpoint over twenty dollars Mirthless fucked around with this message at 04:15 on Aug 20, 2016 |
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Aug 20, 2016 04:12
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Look, I'm done discussing this because it's going nowhere, you're set on it being a holdup, I think that's a major over-exaggeration, already said my peace on what I think about the guard's reaction, nothing is gonna change, so if you don't mind I'd rather not engage you again on that topic.
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Aug 20, 2016 04:19
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blowfish posted:In civilised society mall cops have the authority to stand their fat rear end in your way while swearing at you for shoplifting or breaking a door or something. It's the actual cops that point guns at you (in moderately civilised countries) or just go and arrest you without involving guns (in fully civilised countries). Mirthless posted:He probably didn't have a gun pushed against his head, though considering he was drunk and being menaced by two dudes with firearms I can't say I blame him for having a poor memory I think that the word "privilege" gets bandied about too freely these days. But thinking that security guards won't pull guns on you for petty reasons in the US (or that they will be arrested if they do so) is a great example of privilege. 5 minutes on google and there are several examples of security guards firing warning shots and occasionally even killing unarmed people without losing their jobs, much less being charged. http://kutv.com/news/local/state-takes-no-disciplinary-action-after-security-fires-shot-into-ceiling http://wreg.com/2015/09/13/police-respond-to-shooting-at-soccer-field/ http://photographyisnotacrime.com/2...tch-his-camera/ http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/security-guard-wont-face-charges-in-deadly-shooting-at-detroit-apartments http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/19/mckenzie-cochran-northland-mall-died_n_5849348.html And even the third version made publicly available of what happened by the swimmers, carefully worded through a press release, still paints Lochte as an aggressive rear end in a top hat who kept shouting in the security guards face and trying to confront him despite being told to sit down. At the end of the day, people can believe whatever the gently caress they want. Doesn't change the fact that the version that Lochte told NBC initially, and the version that Lochte told Rio police, are both different from the current version. joepinetree fucked around with this message at 06:25 on Aug 20, 2016 |
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Aug 20, 2016 06:09
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He did, and that's a crime in itself. But thinking about it, we have to admit that people all over, and maybe specially here in Brazil, jumped to demonize him too quickly without stopping to think that it is really strange and hosed up that this security guard, who is probably an offduty PM (military police), would pull a gun on these guys for so little Everyone loves to hate Americans and Brazilians jumped at the opportunity to be the rock after being the window for the last few months
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Aug 20, 2016 15:04
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