Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Skull Servant
Oct 25, 2009

I'm surprised that any leader doesn't know Irish. Less surprised at Burton though because she was ushered in after Gilmore hosed it.

Gerry though? :(

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

kustomkarkommando
Oct 22, 2012

Gerry can speak Irish but he's by no means fluent, and is pretty open about that and has been taking lessons for a couple of years, and would get trounced by Enda or Micheal especially if the debate was anything like the TV3 version.

If you missed it someone uploaded the full debate to youtube if you are a masochist:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQbpZJPThWI

But you can always just watch this highlight which is probably enough for anyone tbh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFCHmYLBcGs

Goofballs
Jun 2, 2011



Did not expect to see this thread ever.

This was like 10 years or so ago and its the only good Enda moment I can think of, back then the Fine Gaelers wanted to make Irish not mandatory on the leaving cert and the crowd you would expect turned up outside Fine Gael's headquarters to protest the very idea so he went outside to debate with them, in Irish. None of them was fluent enough to know what the gently caress he was talking about.

I find myself in a pickle this election that's probably not uncommon. Won't ever vote for Fianna Fail/Fine Gael because they're ideology free aristocrats who just want to be in government for the sake of it, Labour are center right now, the local want to be independents are poo poo, Renua are loving nuts, Sinn Fein don't seem to believe in the legitimacy of the state or its laws and courts and of course are headed by a guy we all know who has ordered murders, the left wing alliance have their hearts in the right place probably but would immediately engage in obvious disasters/fantasy policies and then collapse the government for another election because they're more suited to protesting than managing a country. So who to vote for.

Coohoolin
Aug 5, 2012

Oor Coohoolie.
Ehm pretty much every national leader anywhere ever has ordered murders.

kustomkarkommando
Oct 22, 2012

In regards to Joan getting the chop if she falls short at the election, which may very well happen looking at the recent constituency polling, who's favorite to replace her?

My money is on Brendan Howlin. Safe seat, known name, "safe pair of hands" etc - it may be a slightly bitter pill for him that after years of jostling for the leadership he gets it foisted on him but he seems like the most likely pick. If Alan Kelly survives he'll be doing it by distancing himself from the national campaign and making a show of himself (much like he's doing) and I'm not sure the party will be hurrying to pick him, Ged Nash is looking pretty shaky in Louth and I don't thinks the odds are in his favour to hold his seat, Alex White is a dead man walking and I'll be massively surprised if he retains his seat and that leaves Aodhán Ó Ríordáin who will struggle to hold on as well.

Goofballs
Jun 2, 2011



Not so much here but the point was more than they would have been murders not killings by the state in say an execution (no death penalty here) or by soldiers, Irish troops go more for the peacekeeping than the conquering. Not even Nato members.

kustomkarkommando
Oct 22, 2012

Coohoolin posted:

Ehm pretty much every national leader anywhere ever has ordered murders.

This is kind of pants argument to use in modern Ireland though. It's not like there's exactly a rich history of war mongering in the last 70 odd years

Bryter
Nov 6, 2011

but since we are small we may-
uh, we may be the losers

kustomkarkommando posted:

This is kind of pants argument to use in modern Ireland though. It's not like there's exactly a rich history of war mongering in the last 70 odd years

That's why Gerry's the man for the job. He'll reverse that shameful tradition and take back Ireland's rightful territory from the Brits. Starting with Rockall.

StoneOfShame
Jul 28, 2013

This is the best kitchen ever.

Coohoolin posted:

Ehm pretty much every national leader anywhere ever has ordered murders.

Yeah your making a false dichotomy and you know it. World leaders have ordered killings in wars and also by lovely policies whilst this is not right it cant at least be viewed as a result of a democratic process. The IRA ran communities like dictatorships and killed people for things like not helping them, selling drugs dating people from the opposite community. Can you see the difference and also why people who have had personal experience of The Troubles are very wary of Gerry Adams?

Coohoolin
Aug 5, 2012

Oor Coohoolie.

StoneOfShame posted:

Yeah your making a false dichotomy and you know it. World leaders have ordered killings in wars and also by lovely policies whilst this is not right it cant at least be viewed as a result of a democratic process. The IRA ran communities like dictatorships and killed people for things like not helping them, selling drugs dating people from the opposite community. Can you see the difference and also why people who have had personal experience of The Troubles are very wary of Gerry Adams?

Yeah of course (although slipping the drugs selling thing isn't really unique either).

Skull Servant
Oct 25, 2009

Should have linked this ages ago

Forums Terrorist
Dec 8, 2011

Goofballs posted:

Did not expect to see this thread ever.

This was like 10 years or so ago and its the only good Enda moment I can think of, back then the Fine Gaelers wanted to make Irish not mandatory on the leaving cert and the crowd you would expect turned up outside Fine Gael's headquarters to protest the very idea so he went outside to debate with them, in Irish. None of them was fluent enough to know what the gently caress he was talking about.

I find myself in a pickle this election that's probably not uncommon. Won't ever vote for Fianna Fail/Fine Gael because they're ideology free aristocrats who just want to be in government for the sake of it, Labour are center right now, the local want to be independents are poo poo, Renua are loving nuts, Sinn Fein don't seem to believe in the legitimacy of the state or its laws and courts and of course are headed by a guy we all know who has ordered murders, the left wing alliance have their hearts in the right place probably but would immediately engage in obvious disasters/fantasy policies and then collapse the government for another election because they're more suited to protesting than managing a country. So who to vote for.

idk, Haughey probably had a few people killed.

kustomkarkommando
Oct 22, 2012

if it came out Haughey had someone murdered and mulched up at a beef processing plant I would be shocked that there was someone competent enough in the guards to actually cover it up

Skull Servant
Oct 25, 2009

Which Taoiseach is the LEAST likely to have had someone killed? I know Biffo would have had at least 7 killed tbh.

StoneOfShame
Jul 28, 2013

This is the best kitchen ever.
I believe De Valera killed Dumbledore and Michael Collins.

Skull Servant
Oct 25, 2009

Spoilers! I haven't seen Michael Collins to the end.

kustomkarkommando
Oct 22, 2012

Debate tonight at 9:30 on RTE - Gerry, Enda, Joan and Micheal joined by Lucinda representing Renua, Richard Boyd Barrett for AAA/PBP and Stephen Donnelly for the SocDems.

Claire Byrne moderating with a selected studio audience so hopefully it will be better controlled than TV3s attempt.

For anyone abroad the debate will be streamed for free via the RTE international app if you can't get a proxy working with the RTE player

http://www.rte.ie/playerinternational/

kustomkarkommando fucked around with this message at 13:21 on Feb 15, 2016

Blut
Sep 11, 2009

if someone is in the bottom 10%~ of a guillotine
I'm looking forward to this debate tonight. Donnelly is extremely intelligent, Boyd-Barrett is usually mostly lucid, and despite Lucinda having reprehensible political views she is at least a good debater. Between the three of them they should improve the quality of the debate significantly, hopefully.

kustomkarkommando
Oct 22, 2012

SIPTU have announced another Luas strike.

This time its going to be on Paddy's Day.

Cue another round of anti-union moaning

Sneaks McDevious
Jul 29, 2010

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN
Is it still/again about pay?

kustomkarkommando
Oct 22, 2012

julian assflange posted:

Is it still/again about pay?

Aye they are looking for parity with Irish rail drivers, which averages out to something like a 40% pay increase over 5 years- but they probably would settle for less, Transdev are refusing any pay increase above inflation which is in the negative at the minute so basically they are offering nothing. There's only been one pay increase of 2.5% in the last 6 years even with revenue increasing 30% so they are pushing hard for something substantive.

happyhippy
Feb 21, 2005

Playing games, watching movies, owning goons. 'sup
Pillbug

julian assflange posted:

Is it still/again about pay?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0215/768197-luas-patrick-s-day/

Yup. To be honest, you would have to be insane to want to go into Dublin for St Paddys day from afar.

Goofballs
Jun 2, 2011



Its pretty disgusting yeah

Sneaks McDevious
Jul 29, 2010

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN
Irish Rail money is....a lot

kustomkarkommando
Oct 22, 2012

This is probably a preview for the summer. The Haddigton Road Agreement between the government and public sector unions expires in June and considering the "emergency is over" they are not going to swallow more freezes - this is a skirmish in advance of a messier argument.

kustomkarkommando
Oct 22, 2012

I'm in a hotel in Belfast and this TV doesn't get RTE.

:cryingpadraigpearse:

Sneaks McDevious
Jul 29, 2010

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN
Enda has hardly bossed it so far.

Goofballs
Jun 2, 2011



Joan was in full seagull mode and they just told her they were hearing nothing

Sneaks McDevious
Jul 29, 2010

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN
She is a terrible speaker which is a pity as she can articulate points fairly well. She just needs a permanent voice over

kustomkarkommando
Oct 22, 2012

Boyd Barrett is getting a round of applause for everything he says now.

He seems to have won the audience at least.

Sneaks McDevious
Jul 29, 2010

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

kustomkarkommando posted:

Boyd Barrett is getting a round of applause for everything he says now.

He seems to have won the audience at least.

Social Democrats guy has done alright as well but he is a little dry. Gerry hasn't spoken in nearly 15 minutes which is extraordinary

kustomkarkommando
Oct 22, 2012

julian assflange posted:

Social Democrats guy has done alright as well but he is a little dry. Gerry hasn't spoken in nearly 15 minutes which is extraordinary

The comment from Joan that he sounds a bit too much like a management consultant rings a little bit too true, the SocDems needed to stand out a bit more for a bump - beginning to think they should have sent Catherine Murphy instead

Sneaks McDevious
Jul 29, 2010

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

kustomkarkommando posted:

The comment from Joan that he sounds a bit too much like a management consultant rings a little bit too true, the SocDems needed to stand out a bit more for a bump - beginning to think they should have sent Catherine Murphy instead

You're right. He seems to know his stuff but he isn't much of a politician which is both a good and a bad thing. I don't see leadership there unfortunately.

Blut
Sep 11, 2009

if someone is in the bottom 10%~ of a guillotine
Boyd-Barrett did mostly very well, came across very passionate about inequality. The crowd certainly seemed to like him.

Donnelly did well also I thought, but possibly came across a bit too "intellectual" (or management consultant-y).

Lucinda did OK. Clear, relatively concise arguments. But clearly isn't perceived as much of a threat, she got pretty much ignored by the other candidates.

Adams/Martin/Kenny were all about the same 'meh' level. The constant bickering between them just comes across as childish. I'd put Adams slightly ahead of the other two, though he did make a couple of numerical errors.

Burton came across very badly I think. Constantly talking over others, attacking Donnelly, not responding to points made to her. She gave the impression of someone not just fighting for her party, but for her seat. Quite desperate.

The Irish Times has a poll up on who won the debate, its currently:

Donnelly 29%,
Adams 20%,
Martin 15%,
Boyd-Barrett 13%,
Kenny 11%,
Lucinda 4%,
Burton 4%

Skull Servant
Oct 25, 2009

I was able to watch the debate and jesus, Burton did HORRIFIC. Actually awful. She came across as rude at the worst of it, and just uninformed at the best.

Gerry under-preformed IMO. I did enjoy the little jokes and stuff he put it at least but he could have come across a lot better. Enda and Martin kept bringing up the IRA links at the worst time and what points that they have are starting to turn into crying wolf. They brought it up at the worst times and it detracts from their statement.

I really didn't like the SocDem guy. He just seemed smug, even if he had some good points. His big issue was being Holier-Than-Thou.

Loved the AAA/PBP guy. He was constantly solid as gently caress.

Lucindia continued being awful. She brought up the flat tax at every opportunity as if it's something to be proud of.

Martin and Enda were as bad as each other. Why people vote for Martin, I have no idea. He's a goblin looking fucker.

StoneOfShame
Jul 28, 2013

This is the best kitchen ever.
I don't think bringing up the IRA is going to work with Gerry, I mean there isn't anyone in the country who doesn't know he was in the Ra so anybody who supports him has already accepted this and still wants to vote for him, perhaps there are younger people who romanticise the Ra or who dont know how bad they were nut just saying he was in them wont work.

Goofballs
Jun 2, 2011



He's always denied being in the IRA which I kind of believe because I think they tried to operate it like a state with the political party being the one in the driver's seat, not the army council. Its splitting hairs but its a meaningful hair. I get the impression though that bringing up the IRA is more trying to associate him with ongoing criminal stuff rather than reminding people about the fight for freedom. He could have squashed a lot of it if he was less loyal to people and said stuff like he thought Slab Murphy got a fair trial but then he wouldn't be Gerry Adams he'd be Martin or Kenny. A lot of bad can be said about Gerry but he doesn't lack for backbone, loyalty and the ability to play longterm.

Bryter
Nov 6, 2011

but since we are small we may-
uh, we may be the losers

Goofballs posted:

He's always denied being in the IRA which I kind of believe

GERRY

GERRY

OH MY GOD GERRY

WE FOUND ONE

Goofballs
Jun 2, 2011



Relax, its not like I'm saying I don't think he's responsible. Its like the Clinton difference with I did not have sexual relations with that woman

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Bryter
Nov 6, 2011

but since we are small we may-
uh, we may be the losers
He was directly involved in the running of PIRA activities and was part of the Army Council, who were always in the driver's seat.

As far as loyalty goes, if he'd never denied his membership in the first place, he might not have pissed off Brendan Hughes so much that he went on record with inimate details of Gerry's involvement. D'oh!

  • Locked thread