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On the subject of O.J., here's the trailer for ESPN's 30 for 30's 7.5 hour documentary on him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrB3rOcrJxg
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Apr 9, 2016 00:12
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Toxxupation posted:
What are you talking about? They convinced 2 jurors that he did it. 2 of them voted guilty. But those jurors were never going to be able to convince the other 10 to convict.
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Apr 9, 2016 00:12
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ROCK THE HOUSE M.D. posted:What are you talking about? They convinced 2 jurors that he did it. 2 of them voted guilty. But those jurors were never going to be able to convince the other 10 to convict. That's not how jury deliberations work. You need unanimity to reach a verdict, anything else is a hung jury.
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Apr 9, 2016 00:18
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I'm bummed that it's over. That was a Hell of a show, and every episode I would say to myself 'they can't top the performances from last episode, but holy crap, they delivered. David Schwimmer was a surprise treat to watch. I only know hims from being in Friends, so I wasn't expecting such a great performance. The times when you just see his face crumble when it's hitting him that OJ most likely actually committed the murders was incredible.  : Fuhrman set me up! This is incredible! : .....With the Katrina season, I really hope they have Kanye going off script on the televised fundraiser 'George Bush doesn't care about Black people'. Mike Myers's expression and the quick cut to Chris Tucker having no clue what the Hell just happened still makes me chuckle.
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Apr 9, 2016 00:47
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If Kanye does not play Kanye I'll be very disappointed
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Apr 9, 2016 02:51
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At the end was the old white lady juror in the same car as the Goldmans?
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Apr 9, 2016 03:23
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^ I thought that was supposed to be Ron mother, Fred's ex?The Saddest Rhino posted:If Kanye does not play Kanye I'll be very disappointed Even a drama doesn't need THAT type of drama!
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Apr 9, 2016 03:44
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There better be some Emmy nominations for this show. So many incredible performances
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Apr 9, 2016 03:46
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Panzeh posted:Even the small stuff Cochran did, his crossing of the cops and their handling of Fung was excellent. If OJ had a public defender, yes, it would've been an open and shut case, but he didn't, he had the Dream Team, or more accurately, he had Johnnie Cochran and to a lesser extent F. Lee Bailey. To be totally fair all I really have to go off of is this show, but you really can't understate Alan Dershowitz's role in the whole thing. According to this article, they got some things wrong in his portrayal, but if there's any truth to this, his role was pivotal: In episode 3 when they bring him in, he tells them that their strategy must be to attack the legitimacy of everything, and I think that strategy, along with Cochran's delivery during key moments, is what really won the case. It could be argued that they would have done that without his input or not, but again, all I can really go off of is the show, and he didn't refute that detail in the interview above at the very least. And obviously the exclusion of the DNA evidence was pretty huge, but I feel that the jury's dismissal of that was more due to how new and unfamiliar DNA evidence was at the time. That being said, I thought the actor who played Barry Scheck did a really fantastic job with his scenes, especially his cross-examinations in court. Also he looks completely different in real life.
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Apr 9, 2016 04:52
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Toxxupation posted:That's not how jury deliberations work. You need unanimity to reach a verdict, anything else is a hung jury. Yeah, it's a real shocker that after 8 months of what was effectively house arrest, two people couldn't fight all of the other jurors five-to-one to a standstill. At that point, even convincing all ten them to switch from not guilty to guilty would have been easier to get than a hung jury because at that point everybody just wants to get it over with and go home. ninjahedgehog fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Apr 9, 2016 |
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Apr 9, 2016 05:10
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The media reaction to Bailey and Fuhrman goes through quite a change after the tapes come out. A Cross-Examination Ends, and Judging Begins, for Simpson Lawyer March 19, 1995 quote:F. Lee Bailey's cross-examination of Mark Fuhrman this week was probably not just the most widely watched interrogation ever but also the most touted, primarily by Mr. Bailey himself. And when it was over, it was surely the most criticized. F. Lee Bailey: `I Had No Idea There Were Any Tapes' October 18, 1995 quote:"I did not know," he said.
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Apr 9, 2016 05:40
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ninjahedgehog posted:Yeah, it's a real shocker that after 8 months of what was effectively house arrest, two people couldn't fight all of the other jurors five-to-one to a standstill. At that point, even convincing all ten them to switch from not guilty to guilty would have been easier to get than a hung jury because at that point everybody just wants to get it over with and go home. But...the jury goes home whether it's acquittal, conviction, or hung jury. And hung juries aren't reliant on a "length of time" to determine hung jury status, they could've walked into deliberations, looked at each other, gone "well yep I guess we're all committed to our beliefs with zero chance of changing them huh?", left within five minutes, gone straight to Ito, and said "well we can't come to an agreement". The whole point is that the two holdout jurors were only able to be flipped because the prosecution had failed to sufficiently convince them beyond a reasonable doubt that OJ had killed Nicole and Ron. If they had, then at worst the prosecution was looking at a hung jury and subsequent retrial, which at that point would've been a distinct win for the DA's office. That's why I said they failed to convince even one person; the jury deliberations, especially for a murder case, especially for a murder case as high-profile as this one, were ludicrously short. The two jurors entered with the most tenuous of beliefs that he did it in the first place, which quickly got eradicated. The prosecution did an absolutely horrible job here, by any conceivable metric.
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Apr 9, 2016 06:32
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I feel we needed one more scene from 'The Beast' to really drive home how the prosecution hosed up so bad that even she couldn't stick to her guns.
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Apr 9, 2016 06:40
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I only just got around to watching the finale tonight, but god drat that was a good season of television. I was so expecting this to be campy horseshit. I had no idea how sucked in I would get. Everyone is rightfully praising the work of Brown and Vance, but I think Sarah Paulson deserves particular mention - Marcia Clark, eternal punchline, was the most sympathetic character in the whole show. I also particularly loved Lane's line about the jury's short deliberation - "They've discussed this case less than anybody in the nation."
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Apr 9, 2016 07:55
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Never forget connie Britton's delightful biting of baby carrots as she explained the definition of a Brentwood Hello
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Apr 9, 2016 10:34
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ninjahedgehog posted:Yeah, it's a real shocker that after 8 months of what was effectively house arrest, two people couldn't fight all of the other jurors five-to-one to a standstill. At that point, even convincing all ten them to switch from not guilty to guilty would have been easier to get than a hung jury because at that point everybody just wants to get it over with and go home. This has already been rebutted but... Conversely, after 8 months of bullshit in a bullshit system, what's another few days or weeks of sticking to your guns?
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Apr 9, 2016 13:40
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The Saddest Rhino posted:Never forget connie Britton's delightful biting of baby carrots as she explained the definition of a Brentwood Hello This show's cast was so deep they got her and Selma Blair for like 10 minutes of screen time
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Apr 9, 2016 14:09
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Henchman of Santa posted:This show's cast was so deep they got her and Selma Blair for like 10 minutes of screen time "Deep cuts" (Ugh. When did this phrase come into being and who started it because gently caress.)
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Apr 9, 2016 14:11
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Toxxupation posted:And hung juries aren't reliant on a "length of time" to determine hung jury status, they could've walked into deliberations, looked at each other, gone "well yep I guess we're all committed to our beliefs with zero chance of changing them huh?", left within five minutes, gone straight to Ito, and said "well we can't come to an agreement". Is that true? Yikes. Seems like they owe it to the judicial process to talk for a little longer than five minutes. Also, the jurors asked to have the limo driver's testimony read back. Does anyone know what it was about that testimony that they were interested in? Based on the show, it seems like the 10 "not guilty" votes were rather resolute from the beginning, so I wonder if there was something in that testimony that they felt was especially important.
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Apr 9, 2016 14:58
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Sand Monster posted:Is that true? Yikes. Seems like they owe it to the judicial process to talk for a little longer than five minutes. From what I recall, the limo driver was meant to establish for the prosecution that at the time he arrived, OJ's Bronco was not there, only for it to appear when he was finally leaving with OJ, helping the prosecution with the timeline and contradicting OJ's. However, on cross the defense got him to waffle on some details, like whether there were one or two other cars in the driveway, making the rest of his testimony suspect. Maybe for the few holdouts on the jury, the details about the Bronco were a sticking point and this gave them enough cover for reasonable doubt.
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Apr 9, 2016 16:48
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Sand Monster posted:Is that true? Yikes. Seems like they owe it to the judicial process to talk for a little longer than five minutes. Well obviously that's a logical exaggeration, and the Judge would've almost certainly argued with them to go back into deliberations and actually try and come to a verdict (or even held them in contempt of court if he felt they were being disingenuous), but yes. Technically speaking, the jury could've done that.
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Apr 9, 2016 17:07
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This is a mammoth thread and I'm sure it might've been posted, but Vince Bugliosi released a video where he outlines why OJ is guilty, and how the case was fumbled from multiple angles. Some stuff is presented in the episodes, others aren't. It's a massive watch but incredibly interesting. Plus Bugliosi is cranky and doesn't mince his words ("OJ has the gall to say he's going to tirelessly search for the real killer. I'm sure no fairway and sandtrap remains uncovered"). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9F90DHsOdg
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Apr 9, 2016 19:56
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LadyPictureShow posted:With the Katrina season, I really hope they have Kanye going off script on the televised fundraiser 'George Bush doesn't care about Black people'. Mike Myers's expression and the quick cut to Chris Tucker having no clue what the Hell just happened still makes me chuckle. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDMyArnIdzY I had to look that one up. That is the most awkward monologue I've ever seen, and the fact that Kanye delivers it in khakis is just priceless.
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Apr 9, 2016 20:06
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DrVenkman posted:This is a mammoth thread and I'm sure it might've been posted, but Vince Bugliosi released a video where he outlines why OJ is guilty, and how the case was fumbled from multiple angles. Some stuff is presented in the episodes, others aren't. It's a massive watch but incredibly interesting. Plus Bugliosi is cranky and doesn't mince his words ("OJ has the gall to say he's going to tirelessly search for the real killer. I'm sure no fairway and sandtrap remains uncovered"). Holy poo poo that guy might be right but he's such a dick, the video just puts me more on OJ's side than anything. Just in the first ten minutes with the suggestions that the black jury wasn't clever enough to convict him, and then going to Furhman as your talking head, I can't believe how insulting it is. Annabel Pee fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Apr 9, 2016 |
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Apr 9, 2016 20:42
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Doakes posted:Holy poo poo that guy might be right but he's such a dick, the video just puts me more on OJ's side than anything. True. But it probably comes from a place of real anger. Bugliosi was a pretty good prosector with a great record, and it must've galled to see something handled so appallingly. Edit: I will admit the Fhurman thing totally threw me mind. But on the Jury comments, one of the members during selection admitted that she doesn't read at all apart from the racing form and she doesn't really understand that. After the trial she said that she didn't understand the DNA evidence, that it was too complicated and that it was a waste of time. Another juror spoke out afterwards and said that the domestic abuse angle had nothing to do whether OJ could've killed Nicole, which is an astounding statement to make. It's not like the jury was necessarily stupid, but they certainly weren't ideal either. The breakdown of the footprint moment is a great example of how poor a job the prosecution did. Witness for the defence says one thing, the witness for the prosecution absolutely destroys it and says actually there's not another set of footprints and here I can prove it. Instead of hammering the point home Marcia Clark essentially just says "The defence wants you to think there were two sets of prints, but we all know how that went", treating the whole thing as some flippant aside and not the pretty big fuckup that it was. DrVenkman fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Apr 9, 2016 |
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Apr 9, 2016 20:50
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Vincent Bugliosi also wrote Helter Skelter, which is the quintessential true crime read.
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Apr 9, 2016 21:11
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DrVenkman posted:True. But it probably comes from a place of real anger. Bugliosi was a pretty good prosector with a great record, and it must've galled to see something handled so appallingly. Dude seemed really bitter and denigrated everyone involved except the people he had give interviews for him. Hating on the defense team, prosecution, Ito, the jury. The notion that the OJ-priest discussion could have been admitted takes a massive leap of wishful thinking because his description of 'waiver' would basically eliminate the entire notion of privileged discussion in any jail environment.
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Apr 9, 2016 21:38
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clown shoes posted:Vincent Bugliosi also wrote Helter Skelter, which is the quintessential true crime read.
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Apr 9, 2016 23:09
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From what I've read, it sounds like Season 2 will try to avoid depicting a lot of the Bush politics, and instead focus on a group of fictional people witnessing and playing out a lot of the local politics, as well as the aftermath at the Superdome and beyond. And all that worries me, because, as has been noted, Murphy tends to go off the deep end when left to his own devices.
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Apr 10, 2016 03:23
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Not thrilled with the idea for season 2 so far - Sound like Treme w/out the music or David Simon's craftsmanship.
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Apr 10, 2016 03:50
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Dead Snoopy posted:Not thrilled with the idea for season 2 so far - Sound like Treme w/out the music or David Simon's craftsmanship. Pretty much this for me ever since I heard of the concept. Then again, the OJ Simpson trial is kind of a hard act to follow compared to other cases/trials. Kinda blow your load early when you lead with that, but it was an amazing season of television so gently caress it.
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Apr 10, 2016 05:08
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Vintimus Prime posted:Now I wonder is the show that Martin Sheen is producing/narrating about Jason being the murderer be as compelling as this one?
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Apr 10, 2016 05:09
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Longbaugh01 posted:Pretty much this for me ever since I heard of the concept. Then again, the OJ Simpson trial is kind of a hard act to follow compared to other cases/trials. Kinda blow your load early when you lead with that, but it was an amazing season of television so gently caress it. At some point in season 3 or 4 I hope they do a story on the manhunt for John Wilkes Boothe. So much ridiculous and unbelievable poo poo happened between Lincoln's assassination and Boothe's death in a hail of gunfire that it could stay interesting for 10 episodes, and it would have more or less the same themes as this season and (I assume) the upcoming Katrina season. EDIT: Or failing that, do a season on the Fatty Arbuckle murder case and make it a near-complete retread but with 20's costumes
DarklyDreaming fucked around with this message at 05:31 on Apr 10, 2016 |
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Apr 10, 2016 05:29
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DarklyDreaming posted:At some point in season 3 or 4 I hope they do a story on the manhunt for John Wilkes Boothe. So much ridiculous and unbelievable poo poo happened between Lincoln's assassination and Boothe's death in a hail of gunfire that it could stay interesting for 10 episodes, and it would have more or less the same themes as this season and (I assume) the upcoming Katrina season. All these older cases are well and good (and maybe just as ridiculous), but I think the current TV audience has this affinity for more near-term nostalgia and I think that's why this show happened and others that have or will.
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Apr 10, 2016 06:37
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I wonder if doing the arrest and trial of the Oklahoma City Bombers would make for good tv. Or like, doing Ruby Ridge into Waco into Oklahoma City would work.
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Apr 10, 2016 14:06
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Panzeh posted:Dude seemed really bitter and denigrated everyone involved... the defense team, prosecution, Ito, the jury. Let's ignore the defense team since that's going down a bit of a different path, but you're suggesting that the prosecution, Ito, and the jury are being unfairly criticized?
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Apr 10, 2016 16:45
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Paradox Personified posted:There is a National Guard member sworn to secrecy about dynamite marks on the levees. That little tidbit fascinated me because living an hour away near Lafayette, I first heard of it word of mouth via family members two days after the storm lifted; like the worst game of Telephone ever. Generally it was about "the old man" [engineer] who was employed to work a pump station or something. They could easily put that in there. Still need to see the final episode, but there's about a dozen insane stories re Katrina, from the roads being purposefully blocked by police to prevent escape, to the shitshow at the Astrodome, to the political insanity, to cops shooting half a dozen unarmed civilians on a bridge, to whites in the suburbs actively hunting blacks in their neighborhoods like its The Deadliest Game. Katrina was insanity, through and through.
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Apr 10, 2016 16:51
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The last time Ryan Murphy set a season of an anthology show in New Orleans it gave us the worst season of American Horror Story.
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Apr 10, 2016 19:35
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Shageletic posted:to the shitshow at the Astrodome You meant Superdome right? Though I'm pretty sure there had been plenty of shitshows at the Astrodome over the years.
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Apr 10, 2016 21:03
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Longbaugh01 posted:You meant Superdome right? Though I'm pretty sure there had been plenty of shitshows at the Astrodome over the years. No he means Astrodome. They opened it up to house evacuees and it ended up being a complete catastrophe. That building was on the verge of being condemned before the hurricane and they decided to use it anyway. For brief reference: https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2005/09/hous-s07.html
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Apr 11, 2016 00:01
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