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punk rebel ecks posted:I understand the point of banning assault rifles is to prevent mass shooting. But yeah this too. Guns are a rural values issue. If you hate guns, you hate having a Congressional majority. Therefore, ya need to crush the NRA with some RICO action while being good on guns.
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Feb 6, 2016 08:39
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Abusing government institutions to harass people who's politics they don't like: another thing the DNC should probably cut back on.
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Feb 6, 2016 08:46
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enraged_camel posted:Guns are for people whose job it is to kill professionally, such as soldiers and hunters. Not sure why civilians desperately wanting to own a gun is something that needs to be tolerated. There are other ways Democrats can win back the house that don't involve capitulating to crazy people. Because of that, their gun control agenda currently IS capitulating to crazy people. Crazy people that get their information about how easy it is to get an AK-47 from Ice Cube lyrics, that think this country's massive gun death toll has anything to do with mentally unstable spree shooters, and that get duped by made-up political terms like "assault weapon." Yes, there are people in this country that fetishize guns to absolutely stupid extents, but pissing them off is stupid unless it's going to solve an actual problem. OneEightHundred fucked around with this message at 09:10 on Feb 6, 2016 |
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Feb 6, 2016 09:07
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-Troika- posted:TBH you're much more likely to be shot by the cops rather than a gun owner in the US anyways, especially if you're black. What about muggers and gang bangers?
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Feb 6, 2016 09:17
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punk rebel ecks posted:What about muggers and gang bangers? but enough about the american police 
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Feb 6, 2016 10:19
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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I wanna say "Make federal elections national holidays, with harsh penalties for employers that ignore it" but somehow I think it would backfire horribly. Same with online voting.
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Feb 6, 2016 13:01
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Hey the moment full communist utopia is achieved I promise to be the first to willingly
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Feb 6, 2016 14:06
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enraged_camel posted:yeah, and then they use that imaginary power/control to shoot up malls, abortion clinics and schools enraged_camel posted:There are other ways Democrats can win back the house that don't involve capitulating to crazy people.
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Feb 6, 2016 14:12
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The Kingfish posted:I agree, and you are the exact sort of crazy person that the Democrats shouldn't be capitulating to. Interesting. Tell us more.
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Feb 7, 2016 03:22
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enraged_camel posted:The reason cops in the US have guns is because the populace has guns. And of course the police would be expected to disarm and would comply if the public was, right?
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Feb 7, 2016 03:52
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Amend the constitution to eliminate gerrymandering and redraw all congressional districts in a fair formulaic way.
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Feb 7, 2016 03:57
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ANIME AKBAR posted:I wanna say "Make federal elections national holidays, with harsh penalties for employers that ignore it" but somehow I think it would backfire horribly. Same with online voting. Extend it as well, and make absentee and mail-in voting a lot easier. Better turnout is better for democracy, after all. Rent-A-Cop posted:Abandon gun control as an issue. This is another one. Combine those with a return to form on some economic issues like minimum wage and paid leave and the Dems could sweep.
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Feb 7, 2016 04:47
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crabcakes66 posted:Amend the constitution to eliminate gerrymandering and redraw all congressional districts in a fair formulaic way. Also adopt the Wyoming Rule. Crowsbeak fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Feb 7, 2016 |
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Feb 7, 2016 04:48
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Abandoning gun control will not help the democratic party. It will alienate a huge and growing part of the base. Contrary to gun owner beliefs guns cause harms to millions of people a year by killing loved ones. People who value their toys over actual lives are not going to suddenly vote democratic.
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Feb 7, 2016 05:08
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Zombies' Downfall posted:And of course the police would be expected to disarm and would comply if the public was, right? Maybe, but that's irrelevant. Cops don't go into abortion clinics and shoot people up. Contrary to popular belief here on SA, the vast majority of officer-involved shootings happen either because the other side is actually armed, or the cops think they are armed (since anyone can be armed as per the Constitution). So yes, I do believe police would calm down quite a bit of the public wasn't armed anymore.
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Feb 7, 2016 05:18
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Remember when bush was so bad the entire country threw a super majority to the democrats for free and said okay, whatever you do, just dont touch guns and youll keep it forever. Theres no way you can mess this up unless you touch guns. Then they immediately tried to ban guns again and lost both houses.
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Feb 7, 2016 06:32
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enraged_camel posted:So yes, I do believe police would calm down quite a bit of the public wasn't armed anymore. Cops don't need an excuse to extra-judiciously execute people. (Plus, everyone cops meet is a criminal, and all criminals will be armed because they are criminals, ergo shooting minorities will still be okay because the murder-love cops have are the results of their internalized racism, otherization, and militarization. ) NNick posted:
Imaginary people can't vote. A lot of real people would be a lot more comfortable voting D without the stupid crusade against the bill of rights.
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Feb 7, 2016 06:51
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LeJackal posted:
I will ignore your imaginary people line because you have proven immune to facts related to guns in other threads. Considering the NRA started shifting money to other republican issues you are going to have to back up your claim with some evidence. The gun issue fits nicely with the republican ethos of "gently caress you(r dead child/friend) have mine" Why not abandon other issues like abortion? Gay Rights? Income inequality? Lots of people want more gun regulation - more people that would switch if dems magically stopped gun control as a national issue. Anyone who values their gun over the right to privacy (abortion) or voting is not likely to be a dem voter.
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Feb 7, 2016 08:01
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It's probably inevitable that a large chunk of Real America is just going to naturally be hostile to the Democratic Party / liberalism but stuff like being anti-gun as an identity politics issue certainly isn't helping
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Feb 7, 2016 09:17
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Pope Guilty posted:As soon as you can persuade all of these people to vote Democratic. Oh my goodness. For every one person with a reasonable argument, theres countless others with much less reason 
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Feb 7, 2016 09:47
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crabcakes66 posted:Amend the constitution to eliminate gerrymandering and redraw all congressional districts in a fair formulaic way. Ask a computer scientist how to do this and prepare to get laughed at.
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Feb 7, 2016 10:12
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crabcakes66 posted:Amend the constitution to eliminate gerrymandering and redraw all congressional districts in an arbitrary formulaic way. Sounds more feasible, is consistent, and as long as its equally unfair to everyone there are no grounds for complaints 
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Feb 7, 2016 10:32
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spoon0042 posted:Ask a computer scientist how to do this and prepare to get laughed at. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party-list_proportional_representation
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Feb 7, 2016 11:57
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Crowsbeak posted:Also adopt the Wyoming Rule. Again, is there any evidence that more representatives leads to less gerrymandering and a less stacked House?
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Feb 7, 2016 13:19
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-Troika- posted:TBH you're much more likely to be shot by the cops rather than a gun owner in the US anyways, especially if you're black. There were just under one thousand fatal shootings by police in 2015. That's a whole lot but nowhere near a majority.
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Feb 7, 2016 13:58
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NNick posted:I will ignore your imaginary people line because you have proven immune to facts related to guns in other threads. Well, if you think I'm one of those 'gun nuts' that foam at the mouth and stump for Trump, allow me to surprise you. I don't. NNick posted:Anyone who values their gun over the right to privacy (abortion) or voting is not likely to be a dem voter. See, here's the problem - you're making it a wedge issue. How many people aren't making a ranking distinction? How many single issue voters that give zero shits about abortion or voting precincts are driven to the polls to vote Republican because of the gun control issue? The turnout payoff is not a winning issue for Dems - more Republicans will turn out to vote when spurred by gun control.
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Feb 7, 2016 17:24
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LeJackal posted:Well, if you think I'm one of those 'gun nuts' that foam at the mouth and stump for Trump, allow me to surprise you. It is a wedge issue which Democrats have gain nothing from unwedging. Again, the NRA is not just going to disappear. The NRA will continue to support Republicans and turn out the vote of that demographic. Again, people who are single issue gun voters are not rationale or going to vote Democratic when this issue magically disappears (which it won't until gun deaths move dramatically downward - through the only proven method - gun control). And you are completely ignoring the number of people who are a key part of the Democratic base who support gun control - many, many of whom have personally lost someone and feel emotionally connected to the issue. Why would they turn out if the Democratic party betrays them? The reason Democrats are in this mess is conceding so many issues to Republicans and alienating key parts of their base - primarily around economics and labor. Conceding another issue to try to gain voters who will always vote Republican is a losing strategy. Nevermind it completely goes against Democratic values.
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Feb 7, 2016 17:37
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Well yeah, I meant drawing US style single member districts.
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Feb 7, 2016 17:46
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enraged_camel posted:Guns are for people whose job it is to kill professionally, such as soldiers and hunters. Not sure why civilians desperately wanting to own a gun is something that needs to be tolerated. There are other ways Democrats can win back the house that don't involve capitulating to crazy people. Because of the Constitution? It's not that complicated.
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Feb 7, 2016 18:00
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enraged_camel posted:Interesting. Tell us more. You are an idiot culture warrior and people like you are the reason that the democrats lose races.
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Feb 7, 2016 18:10
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NNick posted:Again, people who are single issue gun voters are not rationale or going to vote Democratic when this issue magically disappears Dropping the issue might keep those single issue voters from going to the polls in the first place. One less vote for a Republican is a gain for the Democrats - its not necessary that they convert their vote to a Democrat for a strategy to be successful. quote:(which it won't until gun deaths move dramatically downward - through the only proven method - gun control). Gun control is working great for Mexico and Brazil.  Ironically, just about every other Democratic policy position would do more about homicide than gun control. (Its cute how you think murder is a-okay as long as its done by any other means except firearms. Except I mean odious, not cute.) quote:And you are completely ignoring the number of people who are a key part of the Democratic base who support gun control - many, many of whom have personally lost someone and feel emotionally connected to the issue. Why would they turn out if the Democratic party betrays them? Are they going to start voting Republicans? Why are Dem voters so fickle? Its almost like you're shifting standards and engaging in special pleading or something. Not that it matters, because chasing gun control produces more turnout of the Republican base. Pushing the issue is essentially doing the work of the Republican party.
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Feb 7, 2016 18:35
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punk rebel ecks posted:Again, is there any evidence that more representatives leads to less gerrymandering and a less stacked House? It would certainly see a states represented better.
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Feb 7, 2016 18:41
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Funny how the gun people are so desperate they're advancing such absurd arguments as "yeah no the democrats should abandon a very popular element of their platform, it only hurts them"
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Feb 7, 2016 18:54
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The democratic party should abandon its platform of catering to the blacks, otherwise the racial supremacist single-issue voters won't vote for them! Oh no!
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Feb 7, 2016 18:58
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Crowsbeak posted:It would certainly see a states represented better. I understand but I'm looking for evidence. Again it's been said that state houses are still very gerrymandered. Not sure how true that is though. But I see that Flordia's state house is 1/3rd Democrats and 2/3rd Republican despite voting Democrat the past 2 elections.
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Feb 7, 2016 19:10
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punk rebel ecks posted:I understand but I'm looking for evidence. Again it's been said that state houses are still very gerrymandered. Not sure how true that is though. But I see that Flordia's state house is 1/3rd Democrats and 2/3rd Republican despite voting Democrat the past 2 elections. I would also argue it be a decent issue to run on in all but the smaller states. Tell the populace that their getting screwed because of these smaller backwaters having to much influence. Also I would run on fear with a proposal to implement an amendment making rigging elections an act of treason.
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Feb 7, 2016 19:14
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Flowers For Algeria posted:Funny how the gun people are so desperate they're advancing such absurd arguments as "yeah no the democrats should abandon a very popular element of their platform, it only hurts them" Gun control isn't actually popular, and neither is 'catering to the blacks'. The Democrats should keep doing the second because it's the right thing to do, but gun control is not a hill worth dying on and you're delusional if you don't think it significantly hurts the Dems in purple states and in state and local elections. Pushing it might marginally increase turnout among white liberals but it will enrage rural/non-urban voters and moderates and push them to the Republicans The Democrats need to build and implement a progressive economic platform to stand alongside the identity politics platform if they want to become the majority party / start winning legislative elections again, and picking stupid, unwinnable fights like gun control is exactly how not to do that. icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Feb 7, 2016 |
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Feb 7, 2016 19:25
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The Kingfish posted:You are an idiot culture warrior and people like you are the reason that the democrats lose races. Hmm. Go on. 
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Feb 7, 2016 19:36
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Some people can't handle the truth.
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Feb 7, 2016 19:41
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LeJackal posted:Dropping the issue might keep those single issue voters from going to the polls in the first place. One less vote for a Republican is a gain for the Democrats - its not necessary that they convert their vote to a Democrat for a strategy to be successful. I see you have poor reading comprehension and a fascination with toys. The fact you think the US is comparable to Mexico instead of say... France is pretty telling of just how childish you are. Surprisingly, people will be upset when a leading cause of homicide and suicide is dropped by a political party and will be more likely to sit out an election. First of all it will never happen, second it is bad policy, third it will not stop the NRA from turning out votes. It is better to push the divide than capitulate and lose out on the "gently caress you have mine" crowd who will never vote Democrat.
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Feb 7, 2016 20:04
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