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Shifty Pony posted:For example a VC might invest $100M for 10% of a company, which makes the company worth $1B. That's the number the press talks about. What they don't talk about (because it is done via confidential contracts) is that the 10% is only true if the company keeps going up Up UP! If that doesn't happen the investor gets to lay claim to more shares at a reduced price so that their original investment is made whole. So if the company IPOs at a valuation of $750M (making the initial investment worth $75M) the VC might be able to buy an additional 10% of the company for $50M... making their total ownership 20% at $150M and they didn't lose a penny. Employees on the other hand who bought shares at a time when they thought and were being told by the founders that the company was worth a billion dollars are screwed - this is kind of what happened to Square employees. oddly enough silicon valley of all shows showed me that most start-up valuations are complete bullshit and filled with fun little clauses like the one you detailed there. edit: i also genuinely like uber and think its better than taxis because taxis in the dmv region are utter garbage. it took them until 2013 to accept credit cards. no really. so i hope uber figures out a way to stick around, from a user experience its miles better than a taxi. airbnb i find creepy and weird because i think staying in someone stranger's house without them there (or even weirder: with them there) is super imposing and impolite. like you're a house guest but not really because you're paying? axeil fucked around with this message at 06:00 on Feb 9, 2016 |
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Feb 9, 2016 05:56
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axeil posted:edit: i also genuinely like uber and think its better than taxis because taxis in the dmv region are utter garbage. it took them until 2013 to accept credit cards. no really. Everybody agrees about that. What we really need is a regulatory system that allows new taxi businesses to start up, instead of providing a state-imposed monopoly on the number of people who can get permits to drive taxis. However, Uber is bypassing not only the medallion system, but also standard rules about insurance, liability, training, security checks .... all under the claim that it's just private citizens moonlighting.
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Feb 9, 2016 06:09
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Medallions have nothing to do with taxis that you call up.
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Feb 9, 2016 06:12
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Everybody agrees about that. What we really need is a regulatory system that allows new taxi businesses to start up, instead of providing a state-imposed monopoly on the number of people who can get permits to drive taxis. However, Uber is bypassing not only the medallion system, but also standard rules about insurance, liability, training, security checks .... all under the claim that it's just private citizens moonlighting. virginia did...something that allowed uber to operate in the state legally but i have no idea if it was an actual regulatory regime or just "okay you can operate here and not follow any laws" i think they were already righteous in DC and maryland.
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Feb 9, 2016 06:20
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Sure, buddy, the Teamsters absolutely will not care about you taking over hired freight on the DL. You won't have to worry about labour unions once my Pinkrton scabbing app goes live.
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Feb 9, 2016 16:18
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Peel posted:You won't have to worry about labour unions once my Pinkrton scabbing app goes live. This very thread is full of future unicorns. OR ELSE! 
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Feb 9, 2016 16:26
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Theranos is looking like it will probably become a fraud case, not just a collapse. Theranos didn't realize this isn't the 90's anymore and healthcare isn't the best field to do that type of fraud. Alternatively we'll get to see just how ineffectual our legal system is.
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Feb 9, 2016 16:34
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Pervis posted:Theranos didn't realize this isn't the 90's anymore and healthcare isn't the best field to do that type of fraud. It'll all come out in the court case(s), but I wonder what they did with all the venture money. Research that just didn't pan out? A creator who is sure that just a little more time and it will all come together?
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Feb 9, 2016 17:08
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Arsenic Lupin posted:It'll all come out in the court case(s), but I wonder what they did with all the venture money. Research that just didn't pan out? A creator who is sure that just a little more time and it will all come together? i always figured most of it went into legal fees to draw out a defense of a position you can't hold until favorable legislation went through
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Feb 9, 2016 19:46
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go3 posted:i always figured most of it went into legal fees to draw out a defense of a position you can't hold until favorable legislation went through But the evidence is that the multiple-drop testing simply didn't work; when the Feds looked at the lab, most of the testing equipment was regular (requires bigger samples) equipment, and when they were drawing blood in IIRC Arizona it turned out they were actually asking for a full blood draw rather than a finger prick. At some point they must have realized the science wasn't quite there and started faking it.
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Feb 9, 2016 19:57
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Absurd Alhazred posted:This very thread is full of future unicorns. I'm proud to announce a new cloud-based executive HR app. It pings you when
All of these useful tools are run using a proprietary algorithm that combines "set it and forget it" convenience with a lack of transparency or direct user accountability- everything a busy tech executive needs. Bindr is going live in Q3 2016. We're now looking for investors to help scale up our systems and improve cross-platform access and synergy. We're also looking for partners for an expanded app that interfaces with employee ID and profile image systems. Using new facial recognition and skin tone detection metrics, we'll soon be able to provide similar employment/disemployment services for a much broader range of troublesome image groups. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Feb 9, 2016 |
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Feb 9, 2016 19:59
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A good chunk of why uber service is "better" is because your driver is operating under circumstances where the next four star review could get them fired. Regular taxi drivers don't have to suck your dick to keep their job and imo that's what a lot of people like about uber over taxis.
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Feb 9, 2016 20:32
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The idea behind Uber and its labor model is to strip away any remaining comforts or security for the working class, so they can finally get back to toiling 12 hours a day from the cradle to the grave for the convenience of the bourgeois upper middle class, like god intended
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Feb 9, 2016 20:38
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go3 posted:i always figured most of it went into legal fees to draw out a defense of a position you can't hold until favorable legislation went through They have been doing things like charging patients $7 for a test then paying UC San Francisco >$300 for a comprehensive panel on it because Theranos's wonder machines don't actually work.
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Feb 9, 2016 20:38
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icantfindaname posted:The idea behind Uber and its labor model is to strip away any remaining comforts or security for the working class, so they can finally get back to toiling 12 hours a day from the cradle to the grave for the convenience of the bourgeois upper middle class, like god intended This. No sick leave, no protection against layoffs, no liability bonds, no workman's comp, wage determined entirely by the whims of the employer, and of course no unions. It's a lot cheaper to run a company if you define all (most) of the employees as independent contractors, as well as requiring them to provide their own tools.
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Feb 9, 2016 20:54
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Arsenic Lupin posted:This. No sick leave, no protection against layoffs, no liability bonds, no workman's comp, wage determined entirely by the whims of the employer, and of course no unions. It's a lot cheaper to run a company if you define all (most) of the employees as independent contractors, as well as requiring them to provide their own tools. Shifty Pony posted:They have been doing things like charging patients $7 for a test then paying UC San Francisco >$300 for a comprehensive panel on it because Theranos's wonder machines don't actually work.
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Feb 9, 2016 20:55
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Oooh, link? (I'll be very embarrassed if that was covered in one of the links I put up yesterday.) It is in the initial October WSJ article. That's pay walled but here's a random blog which has the paragraph quoted: http://labsoftnews.typepad.com/lab_soft_news/2016/01/theranos-outsourcing-some-tests-and-suffering-losses-on-this-basis.html
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Feb 9, 2016 21:01
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You can laugh at this but it is only a matter of time before things end up like this:  Savior the moment while it lasts.
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Feb 9, 2016 21:07
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Everybody agrees about that. What we really need is a regulatory system that allows new taxi businesses to start up, instead of providing a state-imposed monopoly on the number of people who can get permits to drive taxis. However, Uber is bypassing not only the medallion system, but also standard rules about insurance, liability, training, security checks .... all under the claim that it's just private citizens moonlighting. This is America. They'll find ways to get around that too. "Well hey we aren't a taxi system we just let people charge gas money for rides to their buddies." The problem with Uber is that it's basically illustrating what America stands for right now. Other than the people writing the app they've passed all of the cost of operating the business to the drivers. They're using the "but these guys are their own bosses now!" type of thinking to justify it when really it's a way to just a way of making it impossible to unionize or fight against any bullshit the company does. They're deliberately exploiting the stupid and/or desperate.
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Feb 9, 2016 21:49
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If I had to guess I'd say that Uber wouldn't need to do that much different to have the Independent Contractors thing be clearly in the legal column. Like not caring about the hours drivers work, letting them set asking prices, and showing those to customers before they book the car. That's probably still a completely viable app and company (though such a company doesn't have to be Uber).
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Feb 9, 2016 22:05
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ShadowHawk posted:If I had to guess I'd say that Uber wouldn't need to do that much different to have the Independent Contractors thing be clearly in the legal column. Like not caring about the hours drivers work, letting them set asking prices, and showing those to customers before they book the car. Letting them set prices is directly contrary to Uber's business model, in which prices are set based on demand.
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Feb 9, 2016 22:27
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Arsenic Lupin posted:This. No sick leave, no protection against layoffs, no liability bonds, no workman's comp, wage determined entirely by the whims of the employer, and of course no unions. It's a lot cheaper to run a company if you define all (most) of the employees as independent contractors, as well as requiring them to provide their own tools. Aren't most taxi drivers independent contractors?
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Feb 9, 2016 22:37
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silence_kit posted:Aren't most taxi drivers independent contractors? Varies from place to place, but there's definitely a misclassification issue with a lot of taxi and delivery drivers as well. Generally, independent contractors are supposed to perform work that's outside the "core" business of the contracting company. This is really problematic for Uber because they're clearly in the business of ferrying people around. They'd have no problem at all if they were simply a middleman to pair passengers with drivers, but seriously presenting that as their business model would mean giving up almost all of the control they currently exert over drivers. That said, Uber isn't unique in loving this up and 1099 misclassification didn't start with the sharing economy. It's a problem in general, Uber is just incredibly blatant about it.
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Feb 9, 2016 22:48
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But it's not totally crazy to believe that Uber does add something via their platform that could survive labor regulations and overall be a positive for the customer, is it? I mean, Uber's business model itself probably couldn't survive being classified as non-1099, but some other company could do something with it, right?
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Feb 9, 2016 23:18
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Paradoxish posted:That said, Uber isn't unique in loving this up and 1099 misclassification didn't start with the sharing economy. It's a problem in general, Uber is just incredibly blatant about it.
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Feb 9, 2016 23:19
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Flip Yr Wig posted:But it's not totally crazy to believe that Uber does add something via their platform that could survive labor regulations and overall be a positive for the customer, is it? For Uber to be profitable, it's going to have to raise prices. By a lot. This isn't even to comply with regulations, it's because they're currently being subsidized with VC money. This will make them much less attractive to people compared with regular cabs. The positives that Uber brought is basically "call a cab with an app" (note that they don't even give you an accurate map of available cabs). That's not really that novel, and certainly not something worth $51 billion. Especially if cabs adopt a similar "call with an app" feature (and most likely, someone is going to develop that app and then sell it to the cab companies).
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Feb 9, 2016 23:22
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Arsenic Lupin posted:It'll all come out in the court case(s), but I wonder what they did with all the venture money. Research that just didn't pan out? A creator who is sure that just a little more time and it will all come together? I think they built some really nice looking facility on Page Mill road, so I imagine they had to pay for that. They finished building it last year I think.
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Feb 9, 2016 23:53
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What I'm curious about is the knock-on effect all these pending collapses will have on cities like Seattle and San Francisco where the prices are exploding out of control thanks to all the techies concentrating there.
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Feb 10, 2016 00:07
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Brannock posted:What I'm curious about is the knock-on effect all these pending collapses will have on cities like Seattle and San Francisco where the prices are exploding out of control thanks to all the techies concentrating there. You may find more immediate answers in the PNW or California political threads, but in short you have skyrocketing housing costs, NIMBYs who absolutely refuse to allow for high density development and fighting between "techie" and "art/community/local" social groups. The real problem of course is NIMBYs, because gently caress those short-sighted, selfish assholes.
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Feb 10, 2016 00:14
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The last two tech crashes (as opposed to the overall financial panic), house sales stayed steady at lower prices, because all the people who couldn't afford to buy got in.
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Feb 10, 2016 00:15
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Brannock posted:What I'm curious about is the knock-on effect all these pending collapses will have on cities like Seattle and San Francisco where the prices are exploding out of control thanks to all the techies concentrating there. Tech is already springing up in a ton of other areas, especially ones with far lower costs of living. I live near Pittsburgh and its tech sector is growing rapidly. One of the big issues Silicon Valley and the like are running into is that a great many people just flat out don't want to live in a place where the rent is $3,000 a month for a studio apartment. Yeah sure you can probably start at $70K a year there but you're already paying half of that in rent before taxes or other expenses. Is it worth it? Some people say yes, others say no but where I'm originally from you can buy an entire goddamned house for less than a year's rent. That also makes remote positions even sexier if people can nail them. I don't think there's going to be a ton of knock-off effect as the tech giants probably aren't going anywhere.
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Feb 10, 2016 00:47
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ToxicSlurpee posted:One of the big issues Silicon Valley and the like are running into is that a great many people just flat out don't want to live in a place where the rent is $3,000 a month for a studio apartment. Yeah sure you can probably start at $70K a year there but you're already paying half of that in rent before taxes or other expenses. Is it worth it? Some people say yes, others say no but where I'm originally from you can buy an entire goddamned house for less than a year's rent. That also makes remote positions even sexier if people can nail them.
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Feb 10, 2016 00:55
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As someone who works in MV/PA in Aerospace, and used to live in MV for many years, what the hell are you talking about?
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Feb 10, 2016 01:09
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Northern California will always be valuable real estate over our lifespans because of its Mediterranean climate.
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Feb 10, 2016 01:35
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mitztronic posted:As someone who works in MV/PA in Aerospace, and used to live in MV for many years, what the hell are you talking about? There was a crash in the 1970s (ish) when the government pulled way back on R/D funding and military contracts. e: This gloomy paper from 1986 points out that "overall, since 1975, total U.S. aircraft production has collapsed 77%". Arsenic Lupin fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Feb 10, 2016 |
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Feb 10, 2016 02:19
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I think it's time we moved on from disrupting corrupt industry regulations and sclerotic labour laws. Today's world is marked by a resurgent Russia, an assertive China, a complex Middle East and an India not to be ignored. We need to bring some innovation to the intelligence and national security sector. If you are a government worker or official with access to classified information, or a foreign government agent looking for a hot tip, download Traitr now to get in contact with your peers on the other side. Just fill in the Traits of the documents you can offer or are interested in, and our custom matchmaking app will hook you up with an interested user. We also offer Airbnb integration with a special search optimised for landlords who don't ask questions. Traitr is purely a matchmaking intermediary and accepts no legal liability related to the content or nature of the information transferred by users.
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Feb 10, 2016 03:47
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Man, it'd be awesome if rents went down.ToxicSlurpee posted:Yeah sure you can probably start at $70K a year there 
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Feb 10, 2016 03:47
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Peel posted:Traitr is purely a matchmaking intermediary and accepts no legal liability related to the content or nature of the information transferred by users. 
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Feb 10, 2016 03:52
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Peel posted:I think it's time we moved on from disrupting corrupt industry regulations and sclerotic labour laws. Today's world is marked by a resurgent Russia, an assertive China, a complex Middle East and an India not to be ignored. We need to bring some innovation to the intelligence and national security sector.  I hear kids these days are all about the memes, this app icon should handily ensnare the next Snowden.
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Feb 10, 2016 06:36
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Brannock posted:What I'm curious about is the knock-on effect all these pending collapses will have on cities like Seattle and San Francisco where the prices are exploding out of control thanks to all the techies concentrating there. prices are still going to be out of control - young people and wealthy people are returning to cities at record rates. san francisco will be expensive but probably not as ludicrously so, and less obnoxious in general if the tech bubble completely collapses. the only thing pushing san francisco prices to the most expensive in the country is the concentration of software companies, and if the allure of san francisco wears off or if there's no particular advantage to being square in the middle of the hottest (but not only!) tech hub then more companies are going to take a long look at paying much lower wages to attract workers to perfectly livable but less prestigious cities i see a lot of the software industry in atlanta and the biggest advantage here is that you can pay excellent coders less than six figures and their money goes a long way because the cost of living is a lot cheaper - especially older employees who don't want 24/7 urban amenities or the most bleeding edge cultural scene but rather a nice big house in a good school district for less than a half million. honestly one thing that's missing from a lot of people's perspectives on san francisco or seattle's downtown tech hubs and insane rents is that it's mostly a young adult's game, and as this cohort ages if they keep a foothold in the industry their values will shift as well. if you want to have a family and you don't make it into upper management you really can't compete with $5k rents for a multiple bedroom apartment one other small aspect is chauvinism, there's a lot of folks who think that places like omaha or raleigh-durham might as well be a dung-smoked yurt at the end of the earth and frankly i'm fine with those people confining themselves to the most expensive cities boner confessor fucked around with this message at 07:08 on Feb 10, 2016 |
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Feb 10, 2016 07:00
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