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euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

Thug Lessons posted:

You'll notice I never actually stated the latter or said anything that logically implied I believe it. The best outcome would be for the Republicans to refuse to confirm any Obama nominee and set a precedent. The only reason I said anything at all there was to respond to your comments on Bork and Kennedy.

What is the precedent.

Democrats don't get to appoint Supreme Court justices ?

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euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

Thug Lessons posted:

I don't mean it'll establish a precedent that parties will impose on themselves, but that if we have a situation where the Senate is controlled by one party and the White House by another we'll see repeats of this. And at the worst the Supreme Court gets to be an election issue for the first time I've ever heard of, maybe even the first time ever.

The Supreme Court is an election issue every year. What the gently caress are you talking about.

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

The bar association is garbage and judicial independence is a fiction. They would probably be less political if you elected them but I don't know why you would want "non political" judges. They don't exist. Politics infuses us all and the law.

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

Yeah they are already backtracking a bit.

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

Usually when people die you say nice things about them idk.

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

FAUXTON posted:

So what was his Autobahn?

Hamdi v Rumsfeld iirc

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

All of the justices have top notch staffs of like the best lawyers in the country and they themselves are good lawyers . The authority of their branch of government rests on persuasion and the appearance of expertise. You are going to get well written opinions.

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

Thesaurasaurus posted:

I imagine that lawyers who loathed Scalia's jurisprudence still mourning him is like how Hunter S. Thompson felt when Nixon died - all of a sudden, this great adversary who gave your career, nay, your life meaning, your own personal white whale, is gone, and no matter how much you may have hated them, you still feel a little lost without them. At least they gave you something to focus on.

Nah he isn't it wasn't the perfect robot conservative .

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

That article sloppily confuses constitutional originalism and textualism with judicial review.

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

"Curt Levey, executive director of the FreedomWorks Foundation, said in an interview with TPM. "It would be irrelevant to have a hearing because it’s the situation: the fact that it’s an election year, the fact that his policies are before the court, the fact that the court is so finely balanced at the moment.”
"

These are terrible "facts". If this is the best the right can come up with they aren't going to win.

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

The decision is to hold hearings or not. Obama will nominate someone soon after the funeral imho.

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

Slate Action posted:

I assume 'past Republican support' just means someone who was previously confirmed unanimously.

It makes the most sense by far. Let them argue why they won't have hearings for someone they unanimously approved.

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

climboutonalimb posted:

Has the funeral been scheduled yet? Obama needs to name a nominee already so these right wing jerks can put up or shut up.

Saturday

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

It's not even a generation. If a republican wins the White House it is likely control will flip back soon. If a democrat wins, they are losing anyway.

I wonder if they really want to spend a lot of capital on this.

IMHO of course.

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

Biden was on the judiciary committee in 92 iirc

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

Lyapunov Unstable posted:

A disgusting level of partisanship of both parties at equal magnitudes. Certainly contemporary Republicans have done nothing that Democrats haven't done countless times before.

Do you have a source for this claim.

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

vyelkin posted:

Could someone sue the Senate for not living up to their constitutional responsibility to provide advice and consent, since they have outright stated that not only will they not confirm a nominee, they won't even consider having a hearing for one?

Could such a case end up in front of the Supreme Court?

No. No.

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

foobardog posted:

Yep, this is right. Really the idea that nomination confirmations should not be contentious or politicized is the actual "mere tradition" in this case. Congress has every right to reject or accept nominees as they see fit, the idea that it should not be politically based is just a thing like earmarks that mainly exist to grease the wheels of the system.

Now someone could theoretically sue them, and if it did filter up somehow to the Supreme Court and get granted cert, there's no way it wouldn't be 8-0 affirming Congress's right to be assholes unless some of the Justices decide they really want to see another civil war before they die.

Rejecting is fine. Not even holding hearings is anti democratic nihilism.

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

foobardog posted:

Only because the south is allied with the midwest, and contains our larger military bases, so probably.


Yeah, I agree, but there is no system within the US Constitution for Congress to be compelled to act like there are for some state constitutions. Like Congress gets to decide when, where, and how it will decide things, but are limited in what things they can decide. Or more accurately, can have their actions struck down, not their inactions.

200+ years of timely holding hearing means firmly holding hearings is constitutional.

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

foobardog posted:

Yes. They are allowed to hold their hearings in a timely manner. But they are not disallowed from holding them in an untimely manner, there's no speed requirement like there is for court cases, unless I'm unaware of existing precedent on it. Either way, it's not there as a strict reading, only possibly implied as being necessary for the actual functioning of the system.

I'm not saying it's right, but the Constitution has no recourse here.

What has been done for 200 years without controversy IS the Constitution. That is constitutional law. Not only what the document says by how it is interpreted. For 200 years the senate had interpreted the constitution to mean X. Now out of the blue and for entirely base reasons they are saying -X.

Unconstitutional in its more flagrant sense.

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

Like if this were January 2017 and trump was elected maybe the Gop would have a point.

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

foobardog posted:

No, it's not, at least that's not what constitutional law/unconstitutional usually means. The Senate's interpretation of the Constitution doesn't mean poo poo, only the Supreme Court's does. For example, filibustering appears nowhere in the Constitution, and since the Supreme Court has generally stayed out of controlling how Congress runs its business, they're not going to strike it down.

You can argue it works against the functioning of government, and be completely right, but the whole scheme is based around each branch having a way to be an rear end in a top hat to the other branches and keeping them from doing what they want to do on their own (that is, checks and balances). There's not a requirement that they must go along with the other branches, and in fact, them stymieing other branches is often well within their job.

That's extremely wrong. congress and the president are co equal branches with the Supreme Court and their interpretation is equally valid except in the extreme fringe cases of judicial review.

The practice of government over time has always informed "constitutionality" and in jurisdictions without written constitution are even more important, for example. Constitutional law is way broader than the dry words written in the Constitution. Don't let he fact that out foundational written document is called the "Constitution" confuse you from the fact that many sources inform American constitutional law.

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

foobardog posted:






Right, but that's purely due to it being more reasonable politically, it has nothing to do with that being more "constitutional".


No.

A vacancy on the sc has never happened in a lame duck period so the senate would be acting in the first instance. So fine.

We are not now in a lame duck period so it's situation normal.

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

A Winner is Jew posted:

I believe the phrase you're looking for is "the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence".

Which is stupid. It should the absence of evidence is not proof of absence.

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euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

A Winner is Jew posted:

Especially if you want to invade Iraq.

Yeah this is the important part.

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